Ethanol fuel

[iluvbitcoins]

I'v already heard about Brasil going completely green and independent with their fuel
However, recently I'v read some more about it
My country import 82% of its oil, and I'm pretty certain most of our countries are importing
With so many people in a bad situation I can't avoid asking the question how many jobs would transferring to ethanol based fuel instead of the imported petrol create? *metaphorical*
Our own farms with our own workers on our land producing our fuel, completely green and healthy for the planet
How expensive is it to transfer to the ethanol system?

Esentially ethanol fuel is cheaper than petrol
Why are countries that import oil not investing in this system that is cheaper and doesn't send your money outside the economy?

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[sir.humus]

The simple answer is cost. 

Cost comes out in two ways.  The first is cost of production.  On an energetic basis, ethanol is less energy dense than petroluem products like gasoline, so it has to have a lower volumetric cost of production to maintain parity.  Given the ethanol technology currently available, the cost of producing the ethanol in most places is going to end up very near or at the current price of fuels from petroleum. 

[iluvbitcoins]

The simple answer is cost.  

Cost comes out in two ways.  The first is cost of production.  On an energetic basis, ethanol is less energy dense than petroluem products like gasoline, so it has to have a lower volumetric cost of production to maintain parity.  Given the ethanol technology currently available, the cost of producing the ethanol in most places is going to end up very near or at the current price of fuels from petroleum.  

Even if the price is the same, it is most definitely worth it.

If you're importing all your petrol, you're esentially sending money away.
Once you produce your own fuel, you're creating jobs and payments that stay within your own economy with that same money you would anyways use on petrol.

[criptix]

I think one of the biggest problem is the used biomass which are mainly crops that we humans or farm animals eat.
We would need to cut our food to have fuel - atleast with todays technology.

[coolcoinz]

I think one of the biggest problem is the used biomass which are mainly crops that we humans or farm animals eat.
We would need to cut our food to have fuel - atleast with todays technology.

Not really. There's a lot of land that isn't farmed by anyone and is fit for biomass. The land in Eastern Europe and Russia is very cheap, if somebody wanted to produce biomass on a large scale it wouldn't be a problem there. I've even read somewhere that Russia is giving land for free if you're willing to cultivate it.

[criptix]

I think one of the biggest problem is the used biomass which are mainly crops that we humans or farm animals eat.
We would need to cut our food to have fuel - atleast with todays technology.

Not really. There's a lot of land that isn't farmed by anyone and is fit for biomass. The land in Eastern Europe and Russia is very cheap, if somebody wanted to produce biomass on a large scale it wouldn't be a problem there. I've even read somewhere that Russia is giving land for free if you're willing to cultivate it.

i guess that could work depending on how much space and how good the land for farming is.
if its just replacing food for fuel production then it would be bad.

[Spendulus]

I think one of the biggest problem is the used biomass which are mainly crops that we humans or farm animals eat.
We would need to cut our food to have fuel - atleast with todays technology.

Much easier industrially to produce methanol, or ethanol, from natural gas using a steam reforming process.  The only thing that makes alcohol difficult to use as a fuel is the curious idea that it must or should come from biomass.

[pao_de_lo]

In Brazil, ethanol comes from sugar cane.
That's too bad.

[Sithara007]

Ethanol may be cheaper than gasoline, but there are drawbacks. Burning 1 gallon of ethanol fuel gives 34% less energy than burning the same amount of gasoline. Its energy content is about 70% of that of gasoline. Also, current version of the motor engines will need upgrades to make them work with ethanol fuel.

[Barrymore]

Ethanol may be cheaper than gasoline, but there are drawbacks. Burning 1 gallon of ethanol fuel gives 34% less energy than burning the same amount of gasoline. Its energy content is about 70% of that of gasoline. Also, current version of the motor engines will need upgrades to make them work with ethanol fuel.

In my country, as fuel for the car is very widely used gas. It does not require engine modifications, and gas costs 2 times cheaper than gasoline. Bioethanol will not stand such competition and its production does not make sense.

[markj113]

Instead of oil your country will end up importing food as farmers switch from food crops to ethanol producing crops.

[Maximilian_333]

Instead of oil your country will end up importing food as farmers switch from food crops to ethanol producing crops.

Already, many farmers prefer the cultivation of rapeseed. Rapeseed oil to sell and easier to store easier. In addition, there is no problem with GMO content. This culture is greatly impoverishes land so the West will now create all the conditions for growing on the territory of the former USSR this culture. Large subsidies to agriculture in the EU are doing is not beneficial to the export of any agricultural products except wheat and canola.

[Mometaskers]

Aside from providing less energy, these "green" fuels also come with environmental drawbacks. Many of these crops are tropical and we've seen large swathes of forests fell to grow these, like how Indonesia and Malaysia are clearing land for palm oil plantations.

I would rather focus all research on greener electricity sources like geothermal, wind and wave, and on increasing battery capacity to make electric cars cheaper and more reliable.

Trying to make the most of our waste would also be nice. Rather than let all that methane out in the atmosphere, why not use that to power houses.

[darkangel11]

Ethanol may be cheaper than gasoline, but there are drawbacks. Burning 1 gallon of ethanol fuel gives 34% less energy than burning the same amount of gasoline. Its energy content is about 70% of that of gasoline. Also, current version of the motor engines will need upgrades to make them work with ethanol fuel.

In my country, as fuel for the car is very widely used gas. It does not require engine modifications, and gas costs 2 times cheaper than gasoline. Bioethanol will not stand such competition and its production does not make sense.

Do you mean LPG? It's not as great as you're saying.
Firstly it does require engine modifications! You need an electronic valve system that feeds gas to the engine, because unlike gasoline it's pressurized and will look for the smallest opening to escape.
Next there's the cost of the tank that has to be fitted inside of your car's trunk. And lastly your car loses some of it's power. The engine will be a bit weaker on LPG and you will burn about 10% more LPG than gasoline on the same distance.

[Lancusters]

Ethanol may be cheaper than gasoline, but there are drawbacks. Burning 1 gallon of ethanol fuel gives 34% less energy than burning the same amount of gasoline. Its energy content is about 70% of that of gasoline. Also, current version of the motor engines will need upgrades to make them work with ethanol fuel.

In my country, as fuel for the car is very widely used gas. It does not require engine modifications, and gas costs 2 times cheaper than gasoline. Bioethanol will not stand such competition and its production does not make sense.

Do you mean LPG? It's not as great as you're saying.
Firstly it does require engine modifications! You need an electronic valve system that feeds gas to the engine, because unlike gasoline it's pressurized and will look for the smallest opening to escape.
Next there's the cost of the tank that has to be fitted inside of your car's trunk. And lastly your car loses some of it's power. The engine will be a bit weaker on LPG and you will burn about 10% more LPG than gasoline on the same distance.

+10% gas easily overlap 50% savings on fuel cost. The loss of power I don't notice. Install the gas valve is not modification of the engine and installation of additional equipment. Cars can drive on both petrol and gas. The gas tank in the trunk is certainly a problem, but when you drive around town you rarely use the trunk so it was no problem.

[Alexzap]

I believe that electric cars are the future. I hope soon to be upgrading batteries and the movement will become cheaper. I think that the ethanol and gas do not solve the problem so in the future people will abandon this type of fuel.

[Sithara007]

Ethanol may be cheaper than gasoline, but there are drawbacks. Burning 1 gallon of ethanol fuel gives 34% less energy than burning the same amount of gasoline. Its energy content is about 70% of that of gasoline. Also, current version of the motor engines will need upgrades to make them work with ethanol fuel.

In my country, as fuel for the car is very widely used gas. It does not require engine modifications, and gas costs 2 times cheaper than gasoline. Bioethanol will not stand such competition and its production does not make sense.

Usage of LPG or CNG in cars require engine modifications. And unlike ethanol, LPG/CNG is not considered as 100% pollution-free. And  although CNG is slightly cheaper than gasoline, I don't think that it can be 50% more cheaper than gasoline.

[Lancusters]

Ethanol may be cheaper than gasoline, but there are drawbacks. Burning 1 gallon of ethanol fuel gives 34% less energy than burning the same amount of gasoline. Its energy content is about 70% of that of gasoline. Also, current version of the motor engines will need upgrades to make them work with ethanol fuel.

In my country, as fuel for the car is very widely used gas. It does not require engine modifications, and gas costs 2 times cheaper than gasoline. Bioethanol will not stand such competition and its production does not make sense.

Usage of LPG or CNG in cars require engine modifications. And unlike ethanol, LPG/CNG is not considered as 100% pollution-free. And  although CNG is slightly cheaper than gasoline, I don't think that it can be 50% more cheaper than gasoline.

Engine modifications for the use of liquefied gas is not required. An extra injection system. It is quite another. The petrol engine remains. And the price of gas is really 2 times cheaper than gasoline. Can check it at the gas station.

[Xester]

I'v already heard about Brasil going completely green and independent with their fuel
However, recently I'v read some more about it
My country import 82% of its oil, and I'm pretty certain most of our countries are importing
With so many people in a bad situation I can't avoid asking the question how many jobs would transferring to ethanol based fuel instead of the imported petrol create? *metaphorical*
Our own farms with our own workers on our land producing our fuel, completely green and healthy for the planet
How expensive is it to transfer to the ethanol system?

Esentially ethanol fuel is cheaper than petrol
Why are countries that import oil not investing in this system that is cheaper and doesn't send your money outside the economy?

The reason is not because countries does not want a cheaper fuel but the problem relies on the shortage of fund by the government to make this project be realized. And aside from that there are no companies that invest in all countries providing ethanol to everyone. Possibly later on when ethanol expands its business many countries will shift to ethanol.

[Lieldoryn]

I'v already heard about Brasil going completely green and independent with their fuel
However, recently I'v read some more about it
My country import 82% of its oil, and I'm pretty certain most of our countries are importing
With so many people in a bad situation I can't avoid asking the question how many jobs would transferring to ethanol based fuel instead of the imported petrol create? *metaphorical*
Our own farms with our own workers on our land producing our fuel, completely green and healthy for the planet
How expensive is it to transfer to the ethanol system?

Esentially ethanol fuel is cheaper than petrol
Why are countries that import oil not investing in this system that is cheaper and doesn't send your money outside the economy?

The reason is not because countries does not want a cheaper fuel but the problem relies on the shortage of fund by the government to make this project be realized. And aside from that there are no companies that invest in all countries providing ethanol to everyone. Possibly later on when ethanol expands its business many countries will shift to ethanol.

Tell me what is the meaning of the investor to invest in the production of bioethanol? It is not profitable. It seems to me that before investing the money will have to be developed completely new technology.