Litecoin segwit activation. What happened?

[kiklo]

@Dwgscale11  &  @John Titor

Maybe you two Gay Birds should go be alone together, no one wants to watch you make out.
Keep your affections private.




 

[1714774422]

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[1714774422]

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[1714774422]

1714774422

[kiklo]

Segwit is a waste of time!

LTC already has 4X the Transaction Capacity of BTC.

BTC core pushed it as a solution to BTC unconfirmed transactions problems,
by adding segwit they make it easier to run their Offchain Lightening Network (Which is nothing but Banking & Fractional Reserves entering Crypto.)
BTC core wants to use LN to take control of the BTC network , by locking up the majority of BTC Forever.

LN freezes the amount of BTC on the BTC onchain network,
what is transferred on LN is a representation of that value.
(No Different than when Banks allowed people to trade cash for gold.
The Gold is held somewhere else and the Cash is a representation of that amount of Gold.
Only redeemable upon request.)
IE: Banking (there is no difference between it & LN)

And here is the kicker, if LN is only a representation of a BTC, it is only a matter of time before a fractional BTC onchain is represented by more offchain on LN.
This becomes possible once LN can calculate how many people never remove their Locks on the BTC frozen on the BTC onchain network.
Study the history of Banking , this is exactly how they started. 
 
http://economics.stackexchange.com/questions/6970/when-was-fractional-reserve-banking-introduced

In the past, savers looking to keep their coins and valuables in safekeeping depositories deposited gold and silver at goldsmiths, receiving in exchange a note for their deposit (see Bank of Amsterdam). These notes gained acceptance as a medium of exchange for commercial transactions and thus became an early form of circulating paper money. As the notes were used directly in trade, the goldsmiths observed that people would not usually redeem all their notes at the same time, and they saw the opportunity to invest their coin reserves in interest-bearing loans and bills. This generated income for the goldsmiths but left them with more notes on issue than reserves with which to pay them. A process was started that altered the role of the goldsmiths from passive guardians of bullion, charging fees for safe storage, to interest-paying and interest-earning banks. Thus fractional-reserve banking was born.

LN          = Goldsmiths, (which became Banks)
LN Coins =  Notes
BTC        =  Gold

 

[losh11]

Y'all have been spreading misinformation. Why are we, the Litecoin Dev team, adding SegWit?
We want Lightning Networks, Confidential transactions and other innovations.
SegWit allows us to implement these new innovations in a much more simpler manner.

Is it a scaling solution? No.
Are we trying to scale? No, absolutely not. We are nowhere near the point where Litecoin needs to increase transaction capacity.
Does that mean we shouldn't add SegWit?

No. The 'innovation' that SW allows severely outweighs this.

For one, I am looking forward to atomic swapping via lightning networks, where you can seamlessly convert Litecoin to Bitcoin.
This would pave way for cryptocurrencies to be used interchangeably, and simplify a lot of the UX.

[kiklo]

@losh11

Ok,

Explain why anyone will use LTC onchain, when it will be faster & cheaper to use it on LN.
How are the Miners going to stay in business as the Block rewards diminish and all of the fees are being consumed by LN.

How is that so called innovation going to help the current LTC miners feed their families?

Answer those questions!

or

Just be honest and admit it is a way to take over LTC by making mining completely unprofitable, unless you are LN.

 


FYI:
Segwit has already failed on BTC , it will never reach 95% needed for activation.
Segwit on Bitcoin has Failed , BTC Core has Lost , The Miners have Won
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1788448.0

[dwgscale11]

@losh11

Ok,

Explain why anyone will use LTC onchain, when it will be faster & cheaper to use it on LN.
How are the Miners going to stay in business as the Block rewards diminish and all of the fees are being consumed by LN.

How is that so called innovation going to help the current LTC miners feed their families?

Answer those questions!

or

Just be honest and admit it is a way to take over LTC by making mining completely unprofitable, unless you are LN.

 


FYI:
Segwit has already failed on BTC , it will never reach 95% needed for activation.
Segwit on Bitcoin has Failed , BTC Core has Lost , The Miners have Won
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1788448.0

Stick to ZEIT Kiklo lmaoooooooooo!!!
ZEIT HAHAHAHAHA

[shyliar]

Litecoin miners have no reason to be concerned about Segwit it's a great improvement. Some folks like to bring up the Lightning Network (which is coming with or without segwit) as a source of concern for miners because it will change the fee structure. This type of thinking assumes that businesses building the LN can survive on these extremely low fees without massive adoption of cryptocurrancy.

Businesses are being built on the concept of the lightning network. It's the lightning network that potentially has some miners concerned when it comes to fees, not segwit. If usage of litecoin does not increase significantly these lightning network businesses will simply go bankrupt (because fees are so low). These businesses are being built on the assumption of adoption and millions of transactions per day. If adoption fails the LN serves no real purpose.

If the LN businesses actually do make money it will be because of large scale usage. That means adoption has happened. Blocks will be more valuable than they are now. Miners make more money as a result. Instead of the pennies that miners currently earn on fees they will earn dollars on the increased value of these blocks.

Some folks will point out that more than 30 years from now that this might create a problem for miners. As if it's reasonable to assume that a miner will give up increasing current income by a large factor now because of what happens 30 years from now. Frankly it's likely some of these miners won't even be alive then.

It all comes down to believing in the potential of cryptocurrency. For miners if adoption happens they win now, If adoption fails the LN is not required and it's mining as usual.

We are currently at 22.6% of the network (113 out of the last 500 blocks) signalling segwit.

[dwgscale11]

Litecoin miners have no reason to be concerned about Segwit it's a great improvement. Some folks like to bring up the Lightning Network (which is coming with or without segwit) as a source of concern for miners because it will change the fee structure. This type of thinking assumes that businesses building the LN can survive on these extremely low fees without massive adoption of cryptocurrancy.

Businesses are being built on the concept of the lightning network. It's the lightning network that potentially has some miners concerned when it comes to fees, not segwit. If usage of litecoin does not increase significantly these lightning network businesses will simply go bankrupt (because fees are so low). These businesses are being built on the assumption of adoption and millions of transactions per day. If adoption fails the LN serves no real purpose.

If the LN businesses actually do make money it will be because of large scale usage. That means adoption has happened. Blocks will be more valuable than they are now. Miners make more money as a result. Instead of the pennies that miners currently earn on fees they will earn dollars on the increased value of these blocks.

Some folks will point out that more than 30 years from now that this might create a problem for miners. As if it's reasonable to assume that a miner will give up increasing current income by a large factor now because of what happens 30 years from now. Frankly it's likely some of these miners won't even be alive then.

It all comes down to believing in the potential of cryptocurrency. For miners if adoption happens they win now, If adoption fails the LN is not required and it's mining as usual.

We are currently at 22.6% of the network (113 out of the last 500 blocks) signalling segwit.

23.4% now. Looks like more miners going online in the pool LYSjBteSBU as we speak.

[kiklo]

Little note, by placing your name in the above contract,

If you think you can stay anon, and welch on the wager,

I can use the contract to subpoena BTCtalk to get your real name and address.

So if you are thinking you can welch when you lose, I will out you name home address everything.  

 

FYI:
@INRI666 , is that serious enough for you?  

It will be taken seriously if you asked for an escrow and called the bet. It will be very exciting following the developments and all the drama this will bring us. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here trying to demean you. I find this forum very lively with everything that's going on in here.

What makes you think I trust the escrow agent,
I trust a contract that I can sue someone with ,
notice no one has accepted even a 1 LTC wager, so their faith in segwit activation for LTC is not as great as they made out.

 

Then you're all talk and trolling. Why don't you declare a bet and make it open to all takers if you're so sure Segwit in LTC will not activate. You're also trying to avoid dwscale's open bet to you it seems.

Are you just a complete dumbass,

All he has to do is post my previous post with his name and the wager is on.
Here=>https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1782081.msg17859335#msg17859335

You stupid chickenshit jackass.

 

FYI:
Why don't you post enough to become a full member so your dumbass can give me an free LTC also.
Their are 3 Slots open for Suckers.

[kiklo]

Stick to ZEIT Kiklo lmaoooooooooo!!!
ZEIT HAHAHAHAHA

You know it is true,

Retards like you can amuse themselves. 


 

[Zer0Sum]

Don't forget when LTC came out it was not like how it is now.. SCAMMY.
back then there was not 1,000 ICO's a month coming out supported by greedy selfish ADD kidiot Investards flocking here.

You have a selective memory...
Crypto was always about greed and scams...
Let's see 2013... Gox, MCXNow, Mintpal, Cryptsy, ASIC scammers, Silk Road hitmen...

The "good old days" for Spoetnik.

[kiklo]

Question for LTC miners

If 75% of the LTC miners are dumb enough to activate segwit.

Once LN has Offchain LTC , that is faster & cheaper than your Onchain LTC,

Why would anyone ever bother to use your Onchain LTC?

I mention this , because when no one uses your Onchain LTC and the Block rewards are dimished, and LN is raking in all of the transaction fees,
How do you expect to make enough money to keep being an LTC miner?

The above questions is what all of these segwit fanatics completely ignore.

There is a reason segwit can't get higher than 30% on the BTC network,
their miners know LN is a hostile takeover of their coin , so they refuse segwit.

 

[NattyLiteCoin]

Kiklo, I'm not a segwit evangelist but I think you have to put it into context as a natural evolution of blickchain technology with specific focus on widespread global adoption. Segwit is not the holy grail, but it has its utility and LTC stepping up to the forefront is good for crypto. If this can't be seen then you're politically compromised. If your an opponent and it doesn't better serve crypto, then it will have empirically shown itself to not do so, and the next trial of technology will move forward. Also, the mining rewards will be relative. If BTC continues to grow, aside from  lock rewards, tx fees may go up an order of magnitude due to traffic and value against the USD, so I think the argument of miner fees being compromised is farfield.

Also, Charlie stated that segwit maybe activated regardless of 75% support, in any regard I've got 50LTC TO WAGER IF YOUR UP FOR IT.

[shyliar]

Question for LTC miners

If 75% of the LTC miners are dumb enough to activate segwit.

Once LN has Offchain LTC , that is faster & cheaper than your Onchain LTC,

Why would anyone ever bother to use your Onchain LTC?

I mention this , because when no one uses your Onchain LTC and the Block rewards are dimished, and LN is raking in all of the transaction fees,
How do you expect to make enough money to keep being an LTC miner?

The above questions is what all of these segwit fanatics completely ignore.

There is a reason segwit can't get higher than 30% on the BTC network,
their miners know LN is a hostile takeover of their coin , so they refuse segwit.

 

As I explained above the concern about fees comes from the Lightning Network not Segwit. The LN can be activated without segwit so not sure why you think it's important to segwit signalling. Also your question why miners don't need to fear the LN was also answered. Please feel free to read and respond.

Maybe you can explain why you think the pennies LTC miners earn on fees should encourage them to abandon the potential to scale and the resulting increase in value if adoption occurs. You might also explain why if adoption fails the LN network is even a threat since all the providers will go bankrupt.

[kiklo]

Kiklo, I'm not a segwit evangelist but I think you have to put it into context as a natural evolution of blickchain technology with specific focus on widespread global adoption. Segwit is not the holy grail, but it has its utility and LTC stepping up to the forefront is good for crypto. If this can't be seen then you're politically compromised. If your an opponent and it doesn't better serve crypto, then it will have empirically shown itself to not do so, and the next trial of technology will move forward. Also, the mining rewards will be relative. If BTC continues to grow, aside from  lock rewards, tx fees may go up an order of magnitude due to traffic and value against the USD, so I think the argument of miner fees being compromised is farfield.

Also, Charlie stated that segwit maybe activated regardless of 75% support, in any regard I've got 50LTC TO WAGER IF YOUR UP FOR IT.

Save your Wager and give it to the LTC miners you are putting out of business by pushing segwit.
They are going to need it.

Because you did not answer the question,
how are they going to make money when all of the transactions are on LN?

 

[kiklo]

Question for LTC miners

If 75% of the LTC miners are dumb enough to activate segwit.

Once LN has Offchain LTC , that is faster & cheaper than your Onchain LTC,

Why would anyone ever bother to use your Onchain LTC?

I mention this , because when no one uses your Onchain LTC and the Block rewards are dimished, and LN is raking in all of the transaction fees,
How do you expect to make enough money to keep being an LTC miner?

The above questions is what all of these segwit fanatics completely ignore.

There is a reason segwit can't get higher than 30% on the BTC network,
their miners know LN is a hostile takeover of their coin , so they refuse segwit.

 

As I explained above the concern about fees comes from the Lightning Network not Segwit. The LN can be activated without segwit so not sure why you think it's important to segwit signalling. Also your question why miners don't need to fear the LN was also answered. Please feel free to read and respond.

Maybe you can explain why you think the pennies LTC miners earn on fees should encourage them to abandon the potential to scale and the resulting increase in value if adoption occurs. You might also explain why if adoption fails the LN network is even a threat since all the providers will go bankrupt.

Whether you know it or not you stated an OUTRIGHT LIE.
This is a LIE =>LN can be activated without segwit

A LN that is TRUSTLESS, which is what they are Promising , CAN NOT BE ACTIVATED WITHOUT SEGWIT!!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5dt8tz/confused_is_segwit_needed_for_lightning_network/

However, without segwit or another malleability fix, LN channels have to deal with situations where transactions get mutated ("malleated"), which makes them get stuck at various steps.
Preventing them from getting stuck permanently requires either introducing trust (which we don't want to do) or setting some annoying timeouts that limit the efficiency of channels.

So if segwit fails to be activated which it will, and you use LN without segwit , their is a very real Chance your BTC gets Locked forever with no way to retrieve it.
That is funny.  

Now we know why they are not running LN, it loses the BTC and makes it irretrievable.  


 

OBSERVE the THUNDER NETWORK (LN Clone) at least they ADMIT the TRUTH.

Thunder Network (At least they admit they need segwit.)  
https://blog.blockchain.com/2016/05/16/announcing-the-thunder-network-alpha-release/

Until both CSV and SegWit are implemented on the bitcoin blockchain, transactions are not enforceable at the bitcoin protocol level.
So, the current Thunder prototype is best suited for transactions among a trusted network of users.
Try this amongst your dev team or amongst your trusted internet friends, but don’t use it for real payments.
Remember: this is alpha testing software.

[kiklo]

FYI:
Even after the LTC miners refuse to activate Segwit , it is not over, which shows Charlie has taken a payoff to shit the Litecoin miners.

http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/02/17/charlie-lee-potentially-enforcing-litecoin-segwit-activation-bitcoiners-concerned/

To make matters even worse, Charlie Lee mentioned how there as an alternative plan.
Even if there is no miner consensus, he can still force SegWit activation for litecoin.
Albeit Charlie Lee did not elaborate on this statement, it is a very worrisome thought.
No one knows for sure how a soft fork would be forced upon the community, though.
Then again, it is not something we should ever hope to experience either.  

 


FYI:
I guess Litecoin is going to have to be renamed CharlieCoin, if he pulls off a FORCED ACTIVATION!!

FYI2:  Charlie is planning to Change the Proof of Work and Kill all of your Scrypt Miners, and make you Change PoW Algorithms .  
https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5uf679/charlie_lee_people_dont_realize_what_segwit_is/ddtrbxe/

If you are talking about changing the POW then I have to notice it is a risky, expensive and difficult-to-coordinate strategy that may not work.
For one, the hard fork could fail to gain consensus.
For another, even if the POW changes, large miners are arguably the best positioned people to quickly deploy hardware that executes the new POW

[peekabootoo]

without segwit and L.N. litecoin will slowly die anyway  ...  it is not profitable to mine, However ! it does have a secure network and it is faster than btc ( along with many others )

the could be !  saviour ! ... segwit / L.N.

Keep btc politics out.......................Let Litecoin make its own choice and walk its own path... its evolution, its advancing crypto... lets see where it takes us   

litecoin miners currently have nothing to lose ( price / ratio consistently dropping , block rewards halving, difficulty rising ) But these miners have lots to gain 

if it doesn't workout then at least its been tried, so miners move to a more profitable coin to mine .. as miners do !
the only loser if it works out is btc losing yet more market to an ALT ( or is this the problem )   

[maku]

The litecoin community has said that it will be surely activated because they were so sure at that least 75% of the miners will cooperate. What happened?

IIRC Same thing happened to bitcoin before.

Bitcoin community was euphoric about SegWit and everyone thought that LN and SegWit will be reality withing a month after signalling will start.
I suspect that it is tht bad press and propaganda of bitcoin anti SegWit front ebbed away that initial enthusiasm of LTC community.
Well, I thought that LTC users form more unitary community, maybe I was wrong.

[kiklo]

Kiklo, I'm not a segwit evangelist but I think you have to put it into context as a natural evolution of blickchain technology with specific focus on widespread global adoption. Segwit is not the holy grail, but it has its utility and LTC stepping up to the forefront is good for crypto. If this can't be seen then you're politically compromised. If your an opponent and it doesn't better serve crypto, then it will have empirically shown itself to not do so, and the next trial of technology will move forward. Also, the mining rewards will be relative. If BTC continues to grow, aside from  lock rewards, tx fees may go up an order of magnitude due to traffic and value against the USD, so I think the argument of miner fees being compromised is farfield.

Also, Charlie stated that segwit maybe activated regardless of 75% support, in any regard I've got 50LTC TO WAGER IF YOUR UP FOR IT.

Save your Wager and give it to the LTC miners you are putting out of business by pushing segwit.
They are going to need it.

Because you did not answer the question,
how are they going to make money when all of the transactions are on LN?

 

Why are you avoiding the bet? I thought you were so confident that Segwit won't be activated in Litecoin? Maybe you're just trolling because you have a lot of free time.

Your pussy ass butt buddy, would not accept even 1 LTC bet.

Alright pussy boy ,

You want a bet , to hell with Crypto ,

Let's Bet 20 Million US $ , PM me your name & address & Contact Info and I will have my Attorney draw up the Papers.
And your ass had better be able to show the money shithead!

 

[kiklo]

without segwit and L.N. litecoin will slowly die anyway   ...  it is not profitable to mine, However ! it does have a secure network and it is faster than btc ( along with many others )

the could be !  saviour ! ... segwit / L.N.

Keep btc politics out.......................Let Litecoin make its own choice and walk its own path... its evolution, its advancing crypto... lets see where it takes us  

litecoin miners currently have nothing to lose ( price / ratio consistently dropping , block rewards halving, difficulty rising ) But these miners have lots to gain  

if it doesn't workout then at least its been tried, so miners move to a more profitable coin to mine .. as miners do !
the only loser if it works out is btc losing yet more market to an ALT ( or is this the problem )  

Groestlcoin has already activated Segwit , where is LN supporting them,
LN is not connecting with Groestlcoin, because all they really care about is BTC.