Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

I'm operating under the assumption they will be very careful to run it up to totally unsustainable levels before any kind of big short. But I have no idea what sustainable levels look like. But I imagine someone a lot smarter than me has done the maths. Maybe.

Completely unsustainable levels would be very well above ten trillion. And by then shorting into oblivion would probably be quite difficult. So they'd have to move before and risk failing/missing out.

[gentlemand]

I'm wondering what effect it'll have on alt markets. I can imagine many a trader wants nothing to do with BTC if it becomes boring and controlled by US exchanges and stick with shit.

They want to pump and dump like the old days.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

I'm wondering what effect it'll have on alt markets. I can imagine many a trader wants nothing to do with BTC if it becomes boring and controlled by US exchanges and stick with shit.

They want to pump and dump like the old days.

Once we see serious companies using alts as utilities (especially in combination with decentralized exchanges) they'll be just fine. Even with pump and dumps the ("serious") coins would have fairly predictable valuations. I'm actually looking forward to that more than to P&Ds, although the insane profits are quite nice. Got another great Christmas coming up.

[ragnar0k]

My understanding is that they can short only what was bought, the rest is cash settled, so huge leverages will not change the btc market...
Sure, they might sell their btcs to manipulate the exchange, but honestly I don't think it will be sustainable in the long term if adoption continues; also I think these futures have been there in Japan already if I am not wrong and nothing happened

[valerie_zurich]

Bitcoin keeps being bullish, but for how long? Come comment on our daily chart segment with your thoughts.

Bitcoin is still holding up the bullish sentiment as prices in BTC/USD markets rise by almost 5% in the last 24 hours with prices closing in to $12000.



Chart Source:
https://cryptocoincharts.info/pair/btc/usd/bitfinex/today

[jbreher]

I just checked Coinmarketcap and they say it's over 10kEUR. Bitcoinaverage, whom I trust more, say it's only 9990EUR.

Do we consider this landmark reached?

Well, average has crossed a few times, but both Kraken and Stamp not yet. So for me, the landmark is not reached yet.

I think that there is a natural tendency for humans to 'cash out' at human-friendly prices. So I expect a fair amount of hodl > sodl at 10K Euro. Accordingly, perhaps the relevant question is not when we reach 10K, but rather when we leave it in the rearview.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

I just checked Coinmarketcap and they say it's over 10kEUR. Bitcoinaverage, whom I trust more, say it's only 9990EUR.

Do we consider this landmark reached?

Well, average has crossed a few times, but both Kraken and Stamp not yet. So for me, the landmark is not reached yet.

I think that there is a natural tendency for humans to 'cash out' at human-friendly prices. So I expect a fair amount of hodl > sodl at 10K Euro. Accordingly, perhaps the relevant question is not when we reach 10K, but rather when we leave it in the rearview.

Aren't you supposed to be a bear?

[jbreher]

In the meantime jp morgan says btc is the new gold. That was unexpected...
https://cointelegraph.com/news/jpmorgan-switches-tact-backs-bitcoin-as-new-gold

Was it really? Or do you mean it was unexpected that they'd flip around so quickly?

Yeah, fair point... I guess was not expecting it a just few weeks after their CEO claimed it is a scam

In fairness, it was just one of their quants speaking seemingly off-record. Does he still have a job today?

[JimboToronto]

I think that there is a natural tendency for humans to 'cash out' at human-friendly prices. So I expect a fair amount of hodl > sodl at 10K Euro. Accordingly, perhaps the relevant question is not when we reach 10K, but rather when we leave it in the rearview.

Indeed. We saw this at $10kUSD. It took awhile but now hopefully it's behind us.

[jbreher]

I just checked Coinmarketcap and they say it's over 10kEUR. Bitcoinaverage, whom I trust more, say it's only 9990EUR.

Do we consider this landmark reached?

Well, average has crossed a few times, but both Kraken and Stamp not yet. So for me, the landmark is not reached yet.

I think that there is a natural tendency for humans to 'cash out' at human-friendly prices. So I expect a fair amount of hodl > sodl at 10K Euro. Accordingly, perhaps the relevant question is not when we reach 10K, but rather when we leave it in the rearview.

Aren't you supposed to be a bear?

Said who? You need to quit stereotyping people animals. If you don't it'll turn you into a social pariah someday.

[HairyMaclairy]

Bithumb now $13,200.  Arbitrage rubber band is stretching. I hope you folks are strapped in

[Ludwig Von]

I just checked Coinmarketcap and they say it's over 10kEUR. Bitcoinaverage, whom I trust more, say it's only 9990EUR.

Do we consider this landmark reached?

Well, average has crossed a few times, but both Kraken and Stamp not yet. So for me, the landmark is not reached yet.

I think that there is a natural tendency for humans to 'cash out' at human-friendly prices. So I expect a fair amount of hodl > sodl at 10K Euro. Accordingly, perhaps the relevant question is not when we reach 10K, but rather when we leave it in the rearview.

Aren't you supposed to be a bear?

Not a bear, just like me, it is only that we have passed only when it is really passed... . And I also see some seling @10K delaying the crossing.
On a side of that, the dips we have recently seen had, in my opion, contrary to the news on ZH, Coindesk and Telegraph, nothing to do with some external factors. More some testing of the elasticity in the system by our newcomers from the casino's. And since the normal BTC market buyers seem to be a little exhausted for the moment, I would not be surprised if we would not see a few more of these sudden out of the blue actions.

[becoin]

I just checked Coinmarketcap and they say it's over 10kEUR. Bitcoinaverage, whom I trust more, say it's only 9990EUR.

Do we consider this landmark reached?

Well, average has crossed a few times, but both Kraken and Stamp not yet. So for me, the landmark is not reached yet.

I think that there is a natural tendency for humans to 'cash out' at human-friendly prices. So I expect a fair amount of hodl > sodl at 10K Euro. Accordingly, perhaps the relevant question is not when we reach 10K, but rather when we leave it in the rearview.

You think it wrong as always. Bitcoin-euro trade is a drop in the bucket compared to Bitcoin-dollar, yen, yuan etc trade. The rest of the world simply doesn't care that bitcoin is at 10k euro price.

[cAPSLOCK]

A big short is forming..?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-04/the-next-big-short-hedge-funds-prepare-to-trade-against-bitcoin


spooked
again

Are you feeling any better about this?  The more I think about it the more it worries me...

Nope. There will be tears. But what can you do?

But these turds need tu buy a shitload of BTC first before shorting for a big fall, or i am wrong? If i am right, price has to be pumped as hell first before that.

Someone sure as hell flooded the market with new money between the time he called bitcoin a fraud, and now that his company is calling it the "New Gold".

Let's say you had access to billions of investment dollars...  And you want to open a lot of short positions say... oh I dunno... December 10th?  What would you do with bitcoin between august and then...  and then what would you do right after Dec 10?

[erre]

A big short is forming..?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-04/the-next-big-short-hedge-funds-prepare-to-trade-against-bitcoin


spooked
again

Are you feeling any better about this?  The more I think about it the more it worries me...

Nope. There will be tears. But what can you do?

But these turds need tu buy a shitload of BTC first before shorting for a big fall, or i am wrong? If i am right, price has to be pumped as hell first before that.

Someone sure as hell flooded the market with new money between the time he called bitcoin a fraud, and now that his company is calling it the "New Gold".

Let's say you had access to billions of investment dollars...  And you want to open a lot of short positions say... oh I dunno... December 10th?  What would you do with bitcoin between august and then...  and then what would you do right after Dec 10?

Wut? So back to 1k because all the rally was Goldman sUcks buying btc to hedge their future epic short?

[cmacwuz]

A big short is forming..?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-04/the-next-big-short-hedge-funds-prepare-to-trade-against-bitcoin


spooked
again

Are you feeling any better about this?  The more I think about it the more it worries me...

Nope. There will be tears. But what can you do?

But these turds need tu buy a shitload of BTC first before shorting for a big fall, or i am wrong? If i am right, price has to be pumped as hell first before that.

Someone sure as hell flooded the market with new money between the time he called bitcoin a fraud, and now that his company is calling it the "New Gold".

Let's say you had access to billions of investment dollars...  And you want to open a lot of short positions say... oh I dunno... December 10th?  What would you do with bitcoin between august and then...  and then what would you do right after Dec 10?

I'm hoping Goldman and JP duke it out in a fit of greed. Like JP is all set for their manufactured market crash, then Goldman or Fidelity just decides game on bitch and pumps that shit. See, now BTC is the 24/7 financial arena for the old world to battle with.

You got to wonder would old financial giants see clearly and put differences aside, unite, and sling a rock at the young but growing Goliath? Or will they claw at each other?

[Ludwig Von]

I just checked Coinmarketcap and they say it's over 10kEUR. Bitcoinaverage, whom I trust more, say it's only 9990EUR.

Do we consider this landmark reached?

Well, average has crossed a few times, but both Kraken and Stamp not yet. So for me, the landmark is not reached yet.

I think that there is a natural tendency for humans to 'cash out' at human-friendly prices. So I expect a fair amount of hodl > sodl at 10K Euro. Accordingly, perhaps the relevant question is not when we reach 10K, but rather when we leave it in the rearview.

You think it wrong as always. Bitcoin-euro trade is a drop in the bucket compared to Bitcoin-dollar, yen, yuan etc trade. The rest of the world simply doesn't care that bitcoin is at 10k euro price.

Of course the € trade is peanuts compared to USD/Yuan/Yen/Won trade. But look, the USD 12K plusminus corresponds to 10K€. So the denomination is maybe not so important, compared to the human factor.

[ghandi]

"Dear Mr. Kraken: Tear down this wall!" 

[HairyMaclairy]

Bitstamp Euro ATH 9974

Where’s the honey badger?

[AlcoHoDL]

"Dear Mr. Kraken: Tear down this wall!" 

Oh man, I'm so dying to see this!!!