Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[yefi]

It takes a little work, but it's the most secure way to hold bitcoins.

If you use BIP-38 or otherwise encrypt it. Having plaintext private keys on a sheet of paper reduces your security to that of physical protection.

[jojo69]

thanks explorer, that's them

[TERA2]

BOOM Another 1%. Finally. NOW were rich.

[fabiorem]

Of course. Extreme case: with everyone keeping their bitcoins and never selling, the Wall Street sharks can't buy "real" bitcoin, so their profits can only come on the derivatives side. For example, when they short massively, they can gain on cash-settled futures if the price goes down - provided there's a sucker who's longing those futures. If no hodler engages in derivatives trading, the sucker would be some trader - possibly another Wall street shark on the other side.

The logical question then is: what can a minnow do apart from hodling? Is there a way to benefit from swings in the derivatives market without touching one's btc stash?

The thing is, in the gold market the derivatives price leads the physical price. Whatever the derivative sells for, thats the price dictated to the metal sellers.

We sure as hell do not want to end up like that and it might be wise to start understanding the priorities and dynamics of derivatives markets and how they can potentially impact BTC.

Bitcoin has one huge advantage over gold in that respect because it's liquid. Gold bars do not travel through wires so it cannot be traded electronically in its physical form. That basically hands the entire market over to the derivitaves. Bitcoin on the other hand can be so there's a big damper effect on the futures "tail wagging the dog" scenario.

My guess is that these hedge funds might be buying bitcoin themselves, and hence the pumping, with so many green candles and no correction. Then they short it, using leverage to bet on a fall in CME, and thus making more money than a whale might do (due to the margin applied, and the ammount of money, as these hedge funds have millions at their disposal).

The question is: how low could it go, if they succeed? Where should we put buying orders? What would be the dip? And how can we instruct people who are buying now to hold it?

Also, how much would they affect the price, if most bitcoins are not on the exchanges?

[RoomBot]

$12,121.21   

[txtravwill]

My guess is that these hedge funds might be buying bitcoin themselves, and hence the pumping, with so many green candles and no correction. Then they short it, using leverage to bet on a fall in CME, and thus making more money than a whale might do (due to the margin applied, and the ammount of money, as these hedge funds have millions at their disposal).

The question is: how low could it go, if they succeed? Where should we put buying orders? What would be the dip? And how can we instruct people who are buying now to hold it?

Also, how much would they affect the price, if most bitcoins are not on the exchanges?

Futures will also let large funds go long with ease and not have to worry about the holding and storage of bitcoin.  A big positive many have waited for.  Shorting is possible as well.  CME though limits the variance per day to 20% +/- the previous days close (reference value).  Thus it could go down max or up max 20% in one day for the contracts.  If they manipulated spot bitcoin value more than that it necessarily wouldn't benefit them.

Futures will be interesting to see.  Overall in time it should help here for a while increase price, and then allow for ETFs probably as early as Q1 finally now.  ETFs will then flood $$$ directly into the market directly as they will hold proportionally Bitcoin (and need to buy more, etc.).

[Biro Bob]

$12,121.21   

I blinked... and missed it.

[fabiorem]

My guess is that these hedge funds might be buying bitcoin themselves, and hence the pumping, with so many green candles and no correction. Then they short it, using leverage to bet on a fall in CME, and thus making more money than a whale might do (due to the margin applied, and the ammount of money, as these hedge funds have millions at their disposal).

The question is: how low could it go, if they succeed? Where should we put buying orders? What would be the dip? And how can we instruct people who are buying now to hold it?

Also, how much would they affect the price, if most bitcoins are not on the exchanges?

Futures will also let large funds go long with ease and not have to worry about the holding and storage of bitcoin.  A big positive many have waited for.  Shorting is possible as well.  CME though limits the variance per day to 20% +/- the previous days close (reference value).  Thus it could go down max or up max 20% in one day for the contracts.  If they manipulated spot bitcoin value more than that it necessarily wouldn't benefit them.

Futures will be interesting to see.  Overall in time it should help here for a while increase price, and then allow for ETFs probably as early as Q1 finally now.  ETFs will then flood $$$ directly into the market directly as they will hold proportionally Bitcoin (and need to buy more, etc.).

Another question is how this manipulation will affect the altcoins.

The futures are only for bitcoin, but not for litecoin, dash, monero, etc. There might be one for ethereum in due time, but most altcoins will benefit if those hedge funds short bitcoin using leverage in cash. But as I say, they need to actually buy the coins and dump it in crypto exchanges to have a real effect on prices. Most bitcoins, however, are being hodled in cold wallets, so they cant buy all of them. Its not the same situation with gold, which is already controlled by governments and banks. So it is a diverse situation we should analyze carefully.

[milkshock100]

12.5k within 16 hours

I thank you

[Rosewater Foundation]

This one if for You Jamie Dimon:  

I wouldn't worry to much about Jamie Dimon.

I'm sure he stocked up quite nicely during the dip he created with his FUD.

I wonder how many thousands of coins he owns now. He must have made a killing since mid-September.

Pity the fools who sold cheap coins to him.

Ironical.

[RoomBot]

$12,121.21   

I blinked... and missed it.

Yeah, I missed the screenshot too.

Go, BTC GO!

[JimboToronto]

$12,121.21   

I blinked... and missed it.

Yeah, I missed the screenshot too.

Go, BTC GO!

I'm waiting for $12,345.67. 

[Rosewater Foundation]

Bitcoin up 4%, bcash is down 10%. This is a pattern I'd like to see repeat.

[HairyMaclairy]

BOOM Another 1%. Finally. NOW were rich.

Speak for yourself whale !

[Rosewater Foundation]

Bitcoin up 4%, bcash is down 10%. This is a pattern I'd like to see repeat.

It bears repeating. Get it, Jbear?

[jojo69]

BOOM Another 1%. Finally. NOW were rich.

about fucking time

[JimboToronto]

BOOM Another 1%. Finally. NOW were rich.

Speak for yourself whale !

Let's hear it for whale holders.

Every 1% rise is $10,000,000.00 earned for Bitcoin billionaires like the Winklevoss twins.

Add an extra zero for Satoshi, if he hasn't lost his keys. 

[HairyMaclairy]

I would be very happy to consolidate around this range for the next few days.

[infofront]

BOOM Another 1%. Finally. NOW were rich.

Speak for yourself whale !

Let's hear it for whale holders.

Every 1% rise is $10,000,000.00 earned for Bitcoin billionaires like the Winklevoss twins.

Add an extra zero for Satoshi, if he hasn't lost his keys. 

The winklevii will have their revenge. Their net worth will pass Zuck's within the next decade.

[explorer]

I would be very happy to consolidate around this range for the next few days.

OK.  You just catch up with us when you feel like it