Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[manfred]

Gee, I just realized how crazy this is going to be when/if the ETF launches. If this can be manipulated this easily, you should see how the wall st. guys push around gigantic market cap stocks within like 20 milliseconds just before another wall st. guy announces a downgrade. Bitcoin will get blown to bits the moment those guys even start to take it seriously.

who says wall st guys aren't pushing bitcoin around right now?

because they have no interest in a shitty small market like this? if this can even be considered a market, it's just a matchmakers service really.

if there's money to be made, they'll be here. perhaps not large institutions but individual traders that have wall st experience, why wouldn't they?

professional wall street traders wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot barge pole.
there are much, much better opportunities out there for a professional trader.

Bitcoin is trading haven for a professional trader, nowhere else would he find so many inexperienced traders

[naima53]

Gee, I just realized how crazy this is going to be when/if the ETF launches. If this can be manipulated this easily, you should see how the wall st. guys push around gigantic market cap stocks within like 20 milliseconds just before another wall st. guy announces a downgrade. Bitcoin will get blown to bits the moment those guys even start to take it seriously.

who says wall st guys aren't pushing bitcoin around right now?

because they have no interest in a shitty small market like this? if this can even be considered a market, it's just a matchmakers service really.

if there's money to be made, they'll be here. perhaps not large institutions but individual traders that have wall st experience, why wouldn't they?

professional wall street traders wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot barge pole.
there are much, much better opportunities out there for a professional trader.

Bitcoin is trading haven for a professional trader, nowhere else would he find so many inexperienced traders

+100

Кaк cтpoить cтeны (cтpaтeгия)

I'll just leave this here.

(You could make money if you feel cowboy enough)

Quote from: Goomboo on February 08, 2012, 06:13:30 AM
There are a few things that I have been reticent to talk about, simply because I didn't want the general public to know the stuff that "we" know.  However, in the spirit of this thread - helping people to stop losing money - I have decided to share a little.

One of the main and widely-talked about issues is "the manipulator".  After watching time and again as individuals have "the hammer" dropped on them, I figured I might as well shed a little light on what may be happening.  There are several different strategies being used by a few individuals with "lots" of buying power, so I'll talk a little about the main strategy I see on a daily basis.

The manipulator is basically a large trader who is repetitively practicing a strategy we call "the hammer".  It's a simple strategy of deception and can lead to a "crack" in prices.  Prior to applying a systematic strategy to the BTC market, I used to trade with him and make a decent profit.

The Hammer (Long)
1.  Big trader posts large volume on the ask side
2.  Individuals see the ask and try and get in front of him by selling/shorting/lowering their offers
3.  He is simultaneously buying at the bid from the small guys
4.  As soon as selling volume dries up, he pulls his ask and enters long, causing a jump in prices
5.  He sells to the people who buy behind him, scalping a profit

How to Play the Hammer (Long)
1.  Watch the volume from the small traders that are trying to trade in front of him
2.  When the volume dries up and he pulls his ask - enter long
3.  If he doesn't follow soon with a large trade, exit your trade at a scratch or loss

There are several different variants of this strategy, but as a general rule of thumb - if you see a fake bid or ask, the markets are probably going that way soon.

This is more for informative purposes than actual trading advice.  See how subjective this is?  In my opinion, this type of trading isn't scalable and it doesn't possess long-term profitability, which is what this thread is about.  My suggestion is that you take this information as a little "FYI" and stick to a systematic and tested strategy, ignoring the games that go on in the order-book entirely.

[Dumbastronaut]

Gee, I just realized how crazy this is going to be when/if the ETF launches. If this can be manipulated this easily, you should see how the wall st. guys push around gigantic market cap stocks within like 20 milliseconds just before another wall st. guy announces a downgrade. Bitcoin will get blown to bits the moment those guys even start to take it seriously.

who says wall st guys aren't pushing bitcoin around right now?

because they have no interest in a shitty small market like this? if this can even be considered a market, it's just a matchmakers service really.

if there's money to be made, they'll be here. perhaps not large institutions but individual traders that have wall st experience, why wouldn't they?

professional wall street traders wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot barge pole.
there are much, much better opportunities out there for a professional trader.

Bitcoin is trading haven for a professional trader, nowhere else would he find so many inexperienced traders

This

[bitcodo]

But I think many bitcoin holders are unpredictable. Why would this be good for professionals. Some crazy geek early adopter can have a weird day, and then..

[MoreFun]

Everything is really calm like there would be no walls on both sides 

[byronbb]

Gee, I just realized how crazy this is going to be when/if the ETF launches. If this can be manipulated this easily, you should see how the wall st. guys push around gigantic market cap stocks within like 20 milliseconds just before another wall st. guy announces a downgrade. Bitcoin will get blown to bits the moment those guys even start to take it seriously.

who says wall st guys aren't pushing bitcoin around right now?

because they have no interest in a shitty small market like this? if this can even be considered a market, it's just a matchmakers service really.

if there's money to be made, they'll be here. perhaps not large institutions but individual traders that have wall st experience, why wouldn't they?

professional wall street traders wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot barge pole.
there are much, much better opportunities out there for a professional trader.

I read somewhere the wall st firms have investigated bitcoin and their entry price point is 400.

[NewLiberty]

Gee, I just realized how crazy this is going to be when/if the ETF launches. If this can be manipulated this easily, you should see how the wall st. guys push around gigantic market cap stocks within like 20 milliseconds just before another wall st. guy announces a downgrade. Bitcoin will get blown to bits the moment those guys even start to take it seriously.

who says wall st guys aren't pushing bitcoin around right now?

There is already a Bitcoin ETF, you can short or long but needs EUR100K for an account and minimum trade is EUR10K

[ardana123]

Gee, I just realized how crazy this is going to be when/if the ETF launches. If this can be manipulated this easily, you should see how the wall st. guys push around gigantic market cap stocks within like 20 milliseconds just before another wall st. guy announces a downgrade. Bitcoin will get blown to bits the moment those guys even start to take it seriously.

who says wall st guys aren't pushing bitcoin around right now?

because they have no interest in a shitty small market like this? if this can even be considered a market, it's just a matchmakers service really.

if there's money to be made, they'll be here. perhaps not large institutions but individual traders that have wall st experience, why wouldn't they?

professional wall street traders wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot barge pole.
there are much, much better opportunities out there for a professional trader.

Bitcoin is trading haven for a professional trader, nowhere else would he find so many inexperienced traders

The bitcoin market is prone to heavy manipulation (and operates basically without any rules, it's a true free market) and seems to be a lot less predictable than regular stock markets. Just another reason regular traders wouldn't touch this. I can sum up a dozen more. Regular traders are really heavy on risk management. Guess what, bitcoin is just about the riskiest asset you can invest in.

[bitcodo]

5k buy wall for few seconds a minute ago.

at 77.5

[barbs]

no idea if i should be in or out with this grand canyon situation here.

The whole thing seems fishy and when that happens my instinct says i'm about to be ripped off

[Kazu]

Gee, I just realized how crazy this is going to be when/if the ETF launches. If this can be manipulated this easily, you should see how the wall st. guys push around gigantic market cap stocks within like 20 milliseconds just before another wall st. guy announces a downgrade. Bitcoin will get blown to bits the moment those guys even start to take it seriously.

who says wall st guys aren't pushing bitcoin around right now?

They could be, but they clearly aren't taking it very seriously. This is the first case of blatant price manipulation i've seen. Yea, people speculated on manipulation during the bubble, but there wasn't anything this obvious. Now look what wall st. did to bonds during (NOT after, DURING, as in, at the start of) bernanke's first speech. Bonds are orders of magnitude larger in market cap than Bitcoin, they can't even be compared. Yet, they pushed it around like this guy is doing to Bitcoin right now. Even if they took Bitcoin a fraction as seriously, Bitcoin would literally be blown to bits. Three guys, each with $1M, and fast computers, playing around together. Thats chump change for wall st, but would completely screw over Goxxian prices to the point where nobody is even sure what the heck is even going on.

[Kazu]

Lol it glitched our charts.

[MoreFun]

5k buy wall for few seconds a minute ago.

at 77.5

It was live for exactly 67 seconds.

[manfred]

Not only would a professional trader find inexperienced traders, even better for him he will find people buying on sentiment, emotions. Professional only sees on thing Money. Dont matter how big your stack of Bitcoins is a professional will have turned over more coins in a very short time, cashing in the profits along the way.
Did buy some bitcoins in 2011 from a london banker and i certainly had to wait a long time before a bitcoin was worth the price i paid for.

[bitcodo]

Three guys, each with $1M, and fast computers, playing around together. Thats chump change for wall st, but would completely screw over Goxxian prices to the point where nobody is even sure what the heck is even going on.

No high speed trading until gox is on top. Gox would lag for hours.

[Kazu]

Three guys, each with $1M, and fast computers, playing around together. Thats chump change for wall st, but would completely screw over Goxxian prices to the point where nobody is even sure what the heck is even going on.

No high speed trading until gox is on top. Gox would lag for hours.

The funny part is, that would actually probably help. At least they couldn't go like they do on the NYSE/Forex markets and jump over my bots pricecheck intervals.

[Frozenlock]

This whole manipulation thing would be much less aggravating if I knew what is the purpose. 

[Kazu]

This whole manipulation thing would be much less aggravating if I knew what is the purpose.  

Idk, I think its some sort of complicated spreadtrading strategy? Not sure. I don't think they are trying to make it move up or down a long ways, I think they are just trying to make it bounce between the top wall and bottom wall while selling on the top and buying at the bottom. Theres 117 BTC in the way of them completing their strategy, though, not sure if that 117 BTC belong to them (its very nicely sloped so I think its serving to eat up the small bids to add to the sell wall) or if that 117 BTC are just random people trying to outbid them.

[hlynur]

5k buy wall for few seconds a minute ago.

at 77.5

It was live for exactly 67 seconds.

is there a site that shows a history of previous walls?
i didn't recognize  that one on bitcoinity, but it's on my second monitor so perhaps i missed it.  

[Miz4r]

This whole manipulation thing would be much less aggravating if I knew what is the purpose.  

To make money perhaps? Pump the price up and then dump for profit. What else could be the purpose?