Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[cAPSLOCK]

I am not anti-trusted layers... but I will not be parking any significant value on any of them, that's for sure.

Yes that’s always true “Not your keys, Not your coins”

One question how much can we trust these third party wallets then? Specially these wallets on our mobile apps. Although they give us access to the private keys but still can we trust them? I have been using Jaxx. But often I will open my wallet to confirm my coins are still there or some developer of Jaxx have already transferred my funds to some cold wallet :p

100% = amount you HAVE to trust a third party wallet that holds your keys.
100% = amount you have to trust closed source wallet software even if you can access your keys
100% = amount you have to trust open source software for which you have not (or cannot) personally reviewed the code
100% = amount you have to trust open source software for which you have reviewed the code but not compiled the binaries
100% = amount you have to trust the above when you HAVE compiled the reviewed code, but don't really know what you are doing, but think you do.

That last one is a bitch.

It seems extreme, but in the end you can only trust a cold wallet for which you generated the keys in a *safe manner*, which is too long a process to detail here.  Then you can send your money to a hot wallet using procedures that are again too long to detail here, for spending.

This is most CERTAINLY one of Bitcoins biggest pain points.  Maybe tied with privacy.

A decent compromise:  Use a well reviewed and vetted hardware wallet to do the above.

A somber prediction:  "Bitcoin banks" and all the trust and regulatory risks that come with them are an INEVITIBILITY in the foreseeable future for almost all normal users.

[cAPSLOCK]

I am not anti-trusted layers... but I will not be parking any significant value on any of them, that's for sure.

Yes that’s always true “Not your keys, Not your coins”

One question how much can we trust these third party wallets then? Specially these wallets on our mobile apps. Although they give us access to the private keys but still can we trust them? I have been using Jaxx. But often I will open my wallet to confirm my coins are still there or some developer of Jaxx have already transferred my funds to some cold wallet :p

My coins are in cold storage only, just a small amount to fck around with shitcoins is on exchanges.

Delta gives me enough overview of everything, no need to access my coins via phone.

If we made a list of the X most important posts on this behemouth thread, I would vote this to rank highly... or one like it.  It cant be overstated, and I guarantee there are people here reading this that don't get why.  (Probably not most of the regulars... but maybe even some of us!)

[Dabs]

A decent compromise:  Use a well reviewed and vetted hardware wallet to do the above.

I'd add to that any software / hardware that is supported with wallets such as Electrum or Bitcoin Core / Bitcoin for Android. My hardware wallet equivalent is an airgapped machine, but then I think I know what I'm doing. (I could be mistaken and not actually know everything that's going on, but that would seem unlikely.)

[Biodom]

Ready to hear a joke?


https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/05/kevin-oleary-says-he-wont-buy-bitcoin-mined-in-china.html

Oh, gawd, this dude has no clue, apparently.
This kind of attitude needs to be fought tooth and nail or bitcoin fungibility would be in question.

I've got some Caucasian-mined btc for a low low premium of 50%. I will be entertaining the offers shortly....

[shahzadafzal]

100% = amount you HAVE to trust a third party wallet that holds your keys.
100% = amount you have to trust closed source wallet software even if you can access your keys
100% = amount you have to trust open source software for which you have not (or cannot) personally reviewed the code
100% = amount you have to trust open source software for which you have reviewed the code but not compiled the binaries
100% = amount you have to trust the above when you HAVE compiled the reviewed code, but don't really know what you are doing, but think you do.

That last one is a bitch.

It seems extreme, but in the end you can only trust a cold wallet for which you generated the keys in a *safe manner*, which is too long a process to detail here.  Then you can send your money to a hot wallet using procedures that are again too long to detail here, for spending.

This is most CERTAINLY one of Bitcoins biggest pain points.  Maybe tied with privacy.

A decent compromise:  Use a well reviewed and vetted hardware wallet to do the above.

A somber prediction:  "Bitcoin banks" and all the trust and regulatory risks that come with them are an INEVITIBILITY in the foreseeable future for almost all normal users.

Thank you so much for such a detailed reply, in short there’s no guarantee.. that your BTC are safe in such wallets.

So based on that can I say Bitcoin is not for lazy people?

Well I’m somewhat technical guy but I have never compiled a source code of any wallet because still there’s no guarantee that the published source code and the binaries running on your mobile phone are same. Unless you can run/install your compiles binaries on your device itself.

This is true specially in case of iOS, its almost impossible to do so without high level expertise.

In short I would conclude never trust third party wallet.

Solution (for a lazy person like me of course)
- Distribute your coins in multiple storages/wallets
- Most of your bitcoins should always be in cold wallet
- Keep a small amount which you want to use or cash out in mobile wallets

[Kylapoiss]

I am not anti-trusted layers... but I will not be parking any significant value on any of them, that's for sure.

Yes that’s always true “Not your keys, Not your coins”

One question how much can we trust these third party wallets then? Specially these wallets on our mobile apps. Although they give us access to the private keys but still can we trust them? I have been using Jaxx. But often I will open my wallet to confirm my coins are still there or some developer of Jaxx have already transferred my funds to some cold wallet :p

My coins are in cold storage only, just a small amount to fck around with shitcoins is on exchanges.

Delta gives me enough overview of everything, no need to access my coins via phone.

If we made a list of the X most important posts on this behemouth thread, I would vote this to rank highly... or one like it.  It cant be overstated, and I guarantee there are people here reading this that don't get why.  (Probably not most of the regulars... but maybe even some of us!)

Thank you, you just made me blush again like JJG before.

#nohomo

[JSRAW]

What are they a welfare state for India?

As a gift from India, Bhutan received in January 150,000 doses of Covishield vaccines manufactured by the Serum Institute in India – followed by a second shipment of 400,000 vaccines in March. India has also supplied Bhutan with medicines and medical supplies, including paracetamol, PPEs, N95 masks, test kits, and x-ray machines.

Nope, they also supplied 8-10 million doses and other medical necessities as a gift to all neighboring countries except Pakistan (They are about to receive doses through WHO initiative Covax). Although India does control pretty much everything for Bhutan (Trade, Security, Foreign policy)

[cAPSLOCK]

A decent compromise:  Use a well reviewed and vetted hardware wallet to do the above.

I'd add to that any software / hardware that is supported with wallets such as Electrum or Bitcoin Core / Bitcoin for Android. My hardware wallet equivalent is an airgapped machine, but then I think I know what I'm doing. (I could be mistaken and not actually know everything that's going on, but that would seem unlikely.)

I would include that in the list of ways to safely produce the private key.  But as you say it requires a little "know what you are doing", and just being able to get TAILS up on an air-gapped machine might be just enough to fortify the naïve user's bias that they know what they are doing when they do not.

It ends up being complicated.  How do we define "air gapped"? for example.  Turning the WIFI off on a laptop running ANY persistent OS (INCLUDING Tails under certain circumstances) would not meet my personal requirements.  People will print their seed words on printers that cache prints.


There are even simple pitfalls people can make that are obvious seeming to us, but not maybe all folks.  For example going to all the trouble to produce the private key safely and then typing the seed words into a wallet on a HOT machine.

Or something simple like people do not use  a BIP39 password(phrase).  Or they use one that can be brute forced.  Or one that is on a list already.

Bitcoin security is NOT for the lazy.  For sure.

And then there are the nuances.  What risks do you take by subjecting even your XPUBs to exposure?  Sure people will not be able to spend, but now we are delving into the privacy issue.

Shit... my BSOCD (Bitcoin Security Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) is kicking in hard. 

[Hueristic]

Magnet link for the facebook flat files. 15G

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0595273ab674e05131a757f69f494a4285b429aa&dn=Facebook%20Leak%20%5b2019%5d%5b533M%20Records%5d%5b106%20Countries%5d

Torrent looks dead here.

Looks like ISPs are blocking it, use I2p (BiglyBT).

[Hueristic]

Magnet link for the facebook flat files. 15G

i wonder if there are records for those who "deleted" facebook and yet are still in the database.

Yes, I found a guy that has been dead since 2006.

[d_eddie]

Yes that’s always true “Not your keys, Not your coins”

One question how much can we trust these third party wallets then? Specially these wallets on our mobile apps. Although they give us access to the private keys but still can we trust them? I have been using Jaxx. But often I will open my wallet to confirm my coins are still there or some developer of Jaxx have already transferred my funds to some cold wallet :p

Why use Jaxx when Bitcoin for Android and Electrum works? What do these other wallets have? I understand some like Casa and Unchained are multi-signature services but you can also do those on your own.

Does Jaxx publish their source code for the app? Can you compile it yourself and check?

And Electrum have been promising easy multisig for a while. I expect they'll deliver when it's tested appropriately.

[bitebits]

You guys are aware there are hardware wallets nowadays? Don't ever type (or store, the horror!) your seed words into a computer. Ever.

[El duderino_]

I am not anti-trusted layers... but I will not be parking any significant value on any of them, that's for sure.

Yes that’s always true “Not your keys, Not your coins”

One question how much can we trust these third party wallets then? Specially these wallets on our mobile apps. Although they give us access to the private keys but still can we trust them? I have been using Jaxx. But often I will open my wallet to confirm my coins are still there or some developer of Jaxx have already transferred my funds to some cold wallet :p

My coins are in cold storage only, just a small amount to fck around with shitcoins is on exchanges.

Delta gives me enough overview of everything, no need to access my coins via phone.

Same here, all is on cold storage not accessible for myself.... Stored in bank vaults, gotta stay safe, also not 1 app on my phone

[AlcoHoDL]

I am not anti-trusted layers... but I will not be parking any significant value on any of them, that's for sure.

Yes that’s always true “Not your keys, Not your coins”

One question how much can we trust these third party wallets then? Specially these wallets on our mobile apps. Although they give us access to the private keys but still can we trust them? I have been using Jaxx. But often I will open my wallet to confirm my coins are still there or some developer of Jaxx have already transferred my funds to some cold wallet :p

My coins are in cold storage only, just a small amount to fck around with shitcoins is on exchanges.

Delta gives me enough overview of everything, no need to access my coins via phone.

Same here. Delta for a price overview (no specific portfolio of my coins in there, not even via a password), and all coins in cold storage. Actually they're literally freezing cold, considering they're now at the bottom of the sea after my boating accident. Now I stack Doge and pray for a dip below Vegeta levels.

[Hueristic]

Ready to hear a joke?


https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/05/kevin-oleary-says-he-wont-buy-bitcoin-mined-in-china.html

O’Leary said he was “inundated” by institutions asking if he was buying “blood coin from China” after he said he wanted to invest in bitcoin.

Haha, what a load of bullshit. Looks like they are opening a new FUD angle, but it does show bitcons fungability issue..

[OutOfMemory]

A guess: Alts continue to rise BeCaUsE tHeY aRe So GoOd

Alts are crap but Bitcoin continues to have a capacity issue.

This will be one of the keys moving forward... it is an interesting detail.  2nd layers are still nascent, and most of them are trusted.  But I think trusted 2nd layer use will be encouraged.

I also am developing the theory that the 6102 of our generation will come about through these trusted 2nd layers.  You leave your coins on CashApp, PayPal, Blockfi, or the exchanges, there MAY come a day when you CANNOT take possession of them with keys you control.

I am not anti-trusted layers... but I will not be parking any significant value on any of them, that's for sure.

None of us will. It's like going out with all your savings in your pocket(s).

Magnet link for the facebook flat files. 15G

i wonder if there are records for those who "deleted" facebook and yet are still in the database.

Yes, I found a guy that has been dead since 2006.

OK, but did he or one of his relatives make sure that his account got deleted?
I have got a FB account without phone number (not using the mobile app) that got deleted on my request early 2018. I would be interested if my data is included in the leak(s), but i can't find a vital download source atm.

[Hueristic]

Magnet link for the facebook flat files. 15G

i wonder if there are records for those who "deleted" facebook and yet are still in the database.

Yes, I found a guy that has been dead since 2006.

OK, but did he or one of his relatives make sure that his account got deleted?
I have got a FB account without phone number (not using the mobile app) that got deleted on my request early 2018. I would be interested if my data is included in the leak(s), but i can't find a vital download source atm.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg56724786#msg56724786

[El duderino_]

https://twitter.com/HuskyBitcoin/status/1379385934555316228?s=20

[Parazyd]

So Signal is implementing some random shitcoin https://signal.org/blog/help-us-test-payments-in-signal/ instead of just doing LN or something.

This is sad, but I assume Moxie and folks just want to commit fraud.

[xhomerx10]

Magnet link for the facebook flat files. 15G

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0595273ab674e05131a757f69f494a4285b429aa&dn=Facebook%20Leak%20%5b2019%5d%5b533M%20Records%5d%5b106%20Countries%5d

Torrent looks dead here.

Looks like ISPs are blocking it, use I2p (BiglyBT).

 I used utorrent and a VPN starting the download shortly after the link was posted.  It took a while to get going but I was seeing  some pretty good download speeds after a while and dozens of peers.  I had to get sleep for work today so I set it to shutdown when complete and it wasnt running when I checked before work.  I cant wait to check it out tonight.  Based on my preview as it was downloading, Romania was spared.