Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Biodom]

In US your income is high, but costs are very high as well, hence $1 mil is a surprisingly smaller amount of money that you might imagine otherwise.
In addition, the tax is proposed to be coming now and improvements later, but so far I personally haven't seen ANY improvements in government/state services here in the last, say, 30 years, give or take. They will spend the money as they will see fit.

It's still a good bit of money. Granted it's easy to have one's lifestyle "adjust" to where a million a year is "pin money" but at that point you have other issues to deal with.

In terms of Govt spending, well we did get one hell of a 20+ year fake "war" for our $$$ and I am impressed so far with my COVID shots....

Yea, but you cannot buy a ranch (big enough) for it and you also cannot convert it to, say, VTI (total market) and live on dividends (true passive income, not some rigamarole).
IMHO, 20% (or 23.8% for more than 500K) tax was about optimal (not too little and not too much).
43.4-56% is at or approaching confiscation levels, no matter what someone can say about social causes.
In order to make a mental determination, make a thought experiment: would it be fair if you took $50K in gains and they were ALSO taxed at 43-56% after you held for multiple years (not short-term trading profit)?

It's a simple Kantian ethics (Golden rule):  "Act as you would have others act towards you."
Or hinduism: "Do not to others what ye do not wish done to yourself..."

A government that wants to tax CG at 43-56% would be simply effectively deprived of that tax revenue (no sell, hence no tax).
You cannot tax cap gains if there were no such gains.

[Arriemoller]

Follow-up question on the capital gains tax: if stock markets drop because people are locking in current profits by selling stock, does that mean they have to pay taxes now? Which would mean the US government potentially gained billions of tax just because Biden made an announcement?

I'm still flabbergasted by the idea that Americans can choose when they want to pay their taxes.

In the UK, we pay 20% on CGT but that’s only on profits. We don’t have an annual wealth tax so it’s only payable when we decide to sell. There was a review on spending/finances a couple of months back but luckily CGT was left alone.

Same in Sweden, but we pay 30% CGT.
But you can dodge most of the tax by opening an investment savings account and buy bitcoin securities, however not your keys, not your bitcoin.

When the next bull cycle starts I will look in to putting half in securities and half in real bitcoins.
That way I might just be able to let my bitcoins just sit there and use the securities/ETF:s for buying and selling the four year cycles .

[fillippone]

Three things my grandfather told me:

2) A Turkish prison is not a good place to be

Compulsory reference to Midnight Express:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbaQiK_NGw

[Arriemoller]

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.

Spot on, I would so have merited this if I had any.

[Arriemoller]

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.

That is not correct.

Remove all bridges and roads in all countries. Let me know which is harder on economy  no roads no bridges
no canals. Or taxes that build roads bridges and canals such as the panama and the suez.

The correct statement is many taxes are ill conceived and they can hurt the economy.

The bridge/underwater car and train tunnel between Malmö and Copenhagen cost absolutely nothing for the taxpayers, it's all funded by loans that's paid of by a bridge toll, and that even includes a brand new artificial island.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96resundsf%C3%B6rbindelsen#Finansiering_och_%C3%A4garskap

No English text unfortunately, there's a German site though for the speakers of said language.

But a nice picture I provide can.



And a train drivers view, starting with arriving at Malmö C and going underground Malmö with stop at two stations and then surfacing before entering the bridge and going on to Denmark.
I sometimes like to watch train driver view films just as a relaxation and this is one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE_BlE4DxcA
You don't need taxes to build infrastructure.

[El duderino_]

[Richy_T]

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.
[...]

Spot on, I would so have merited this if I had any.

I'll lend you one.

[BitcoinBunny]

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.

That is not correct.

Remove all bridges and roads in all countries. Let me know which is harder on economy  no roads no bridges
no canals. Or taxes that build roads bridges and canals such as the panama and the suez.

The correct statement is many taxes are ill conceived and they can hurt the economy.

The bridge/underwater car and train tunnel between Malmö and Copenhagen cost absolutely nothing for the taxpayers, it's all funded by loans that's paid of by a bridge toll, and that even includes a brand new artificial island.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96resundsf%C3%B6rbindelsen#Finansiering_och_%C3%A4garskap

No English text unfortunately, there's a German site though for the speakers of said language.

But a nice picture I provide can.



And a train drivers view, starting with arriving at Malmö C and going underground Malmö with stop at two stations and then surfacing before entering the bridge and going on to Denmark.
I sometimes like to watch train driver view films just as a relaxation and this is one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE_BlE4DxcA
You don't need taxes to build infrastructure.

Really impressive looking bit of infrastructure.

Ironically my favourite motorway in the UK is the M6 expressway toll that bypasses Birmingham. It is always quiet, not having to negotiate heavy goods and there is still a hard shoulder lane. The latter I find trully astonishing is being removed from almost every other motorway in the UK under the name of "smart" motorway. It seems incredibly dangerous and completely stupid, just to save a buck instead of building more proper lanes and keeping the safety lane in place for emergencies and emergency vehicles.

Perhaps more toll roads and less road tax would actually be a better solution.

[DaRude]

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.

That is not correct.

Remove all bridges and roads in all countries. Let me know which is harder on economy  no roads no bridges
no canals. Or taxes that build roads bridges and canals such as the panama and the suez.

The correct statement is many taxes are ill conceived and they can hurt the economy.

The bridge/underwater car and train tunnel between Malmö and Copenhagen cost absolutely nothing for the taxpayers, it's all funded by loans that's paid of by a bridge toll, and that even includes a brand new artificial island.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96resundsf%C3%B6rbindelsen#Finansiering_och_%C3%A4garskap

No English text unfortunately, there's a German site though for the speakers of said language.

But a nice picture I provide can.



And a train drivers view, starting with arriving at Malmö C and going underground Malmö with stop at two stations and then surfacing before entering the bridge and going on to Denmark.
I sometimes like to watch train driver view films just as a relaxation and this is one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE_BlE4DxcA
You don't need taxes to build infrastructure.

Ahh the 108€ ($130) round trip toll bridge. Minimum wage worker in USA ($7.25/hr) would have to work over 2 days full time (17.9hrs) just for the privilege to drive across it. But if they buy online they can save 8€!
https://www.oresundsbron.com/en/prices
Should get one going to my house so those poor plebs don't come visiting! 'murika!

[El duderino_]

https://www.coindesk.com/south-koreas-top-financial-regulator-suggests-all-crypto-exchanges-could-be-shut-down?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

What about this ....  

[julian071]

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.

Anyone advocating too little taxes on extreme wealth is a puppet for extremely wealthy people.

I mean seriously. Look at the common good. Be a patriot. Care for your fellow countrymen.

Also this trickle down shit has been debunked for ages.

[fillippone]

Three things my grandfather told me:

2) A Turkish prison is not a good place to be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvdZgexebqA

Compulsory reference to Midnight Express:

https://twitter.com/alessiorastani/status/1385525921436872704?s=1001

Who are you? Why you edit quotes to my message to make them look I posted that shit?
If we weren't on the WO I would report you.

[Arriemoller]

10 friends go out every day for dinner. The bill would be SEK 1,000. The bill was divided in the same way that taxes are paid. The first four - (the poorest) pay nothing; - the 5th pays SEK 10 - the 6th pays SEK 30 - the 7th SEK 70 - the 8th SEK 120 - the 9th SEK 180 - The 10th person (the richest) pays SEK 590.
The ten friends ate dinner at the restaurant every day, happy with the deal. Until one day, when the owner of the restaurant gave them a discount. “You are such good customers. I give you SEK 200 off your dinners. ” Dinner for 10 people now costs SEK 800.

They still wanted to pay for the dinner the way taxes are paid in Sweden. The first four people were not affected. They were allowed to continue eating for free. But what would the other 6 do - those who paid? How would they divide the discount of SEK 200 so that everyone would get their share? They realized that SEK 200 divided by 6 would be SEK 33.33. But if they deducted it from each person's share, the 5th and 6th person would be paid to eat. The restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each person's bill proportionately. He calculated the amounts each person would pay:

The result was that the 5th person also got to eat for free - the 6th had to pay SEK 20 - the 7th paid SEK 50 - the 8th SEK 90 - the 9th SEK 120 - the 10th person paid SEK 520 instead of the previous SEK 590. Everyone got a lower price than before and now the first five could eat for free. Outside the restaurant, they began to compare what they had saved. "I only earned a tenth of the discount!", The 6th person began. He pointed to the 10th person, "… but he earned 70 kroner !!!" - "Exactly, I also only saved ten", said the 5th person. "It's unfair that he got seven times as much as I did!"
"It's true!" Shouted the 7th person. “Why should he get SEK 70 back when I only got SEK 20? The rich always gets the most! ”-“ Wait a minute ”, shouted the first four,“ We ​​got nothing! This system exploits us poor! ”

The nine people scolded the 10th and called him a cold-hearted egoist, a capitalist pig, a bloodsucker who kicks those who lie down. The next night, the 10th person didn't come to dinner. The other nine said " how nice", sat down and ate. When the bill came, they discovered something. They couldn't pay it. SEK 520 was missing.

[rolling]

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.

Anyone advocating too little taxes on extreme wealth is a puppet for extremely wealthy people.

I mean seriously. Look at the common good. Be a patriot. Care for your fellow countrymen.

Also this trickle down shit has been debunked for ages.

I didn't say anything about trickle down. I'm saying taxes are already outrageous and higher taxes will only hurt the economy and help nobody. If we want to help people we should be cutting everyone's taxes.

The common good is a smaller nanny state where you have to work for what you get. I do care, it's tough love though. People need to stand up for what made the world as amazing as it is. It wasn't big government or social "justice". It was hard work.

[nullius]

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.

Anyone advocating too little taxes on extreme wealth is a puppet for extremely wealthy people.

I mean seriously. Look at the common good. Be a patriot. Care for your fellow countrymen.

Also this trickle down shit has been debunked for ages.

Anyone advocating taxes on extreme wealth is a delusionally foolish naïf.

That quasi-Commie rhetoric about “the common good” is sucker-bait for commoners to embrace a system which taxes them.  Not the extremely wealthy—who have armies of lawyers and accountants, plus political “connections” in the same sense that a master connects to his dog with a leash.  The capitalist system is fundamentally corrupt, it is stacked in favour of the extremely wealthy, and raising taxes will not change that!

Why do you suppose that, for example, Warren Buffet advocates for the Marxist death tax—whilst he simultaneously assures Berkshire Hathaway shareholders that upon his death, only about 1% of his estate will be liquidated to pay taxes?  Oh, yes:  The death tax is a weapon of mass destruction against small, family-owned businesses, and also against independent family farms.  It is a device to keep BigCorps at the top, and to prevent wealth from accumulating at the bottom and the middle.

The same principles work with income tax, capital gains tax, etc.  That was only the first example that came to mind.  More apropos here, income and capital gains taxes can be used to control the little Bitcoiners whilst investment bankers and Wall Street hedge fund managers have nothing to worry about.

Hit-and-run.  Hi.  Bye.

[BitcoinBunny]

10 friends go out every day for dinner. The bill would be SEK 1,000. The bill was divided in the same way that taxes are paid. The first four - (the poorest) pay nothing; - the 5th pays SEK 10 - the 6th pays SEK 30 - the 7th SEK 70 - the 8th SEK 120 - the 9th SEK 180 - The 10th person (the richest) pays SEK 590.
The ten friends ate dinner at the restaurant every day, happy with the deal. Until one day, when the owner of the restaurant gave them a discount. “You are such good customers. I give you SEK 200 off your dinners. ” Dinner for 10 people now costs SEK 800.

They still wanted to pay for the dinner the way taxes are paid in Sweden. The first four people were not affected. They were allowed to continue eating for free. But what would the other 6 do - those who paid? How would they divide the discount of SEK 200 so that everyone would get their share? They realized that SEK 200 divided by 6 would be SEK 33.33. But if they deducted it from each person's share, the 5th and 6th person would be paid to eat. The restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each person's bill proportionately. He calculated the amounts each person would pay:

The result was that the 5th person also got to eat for free - the 6th had to pay SEK 20 - the 7th paid SEK 50 - the 8th SEK 90 - the 9th SEK 120 - the 10th person paid SEK 520 instead of the previous SEK 590. Everyone got a lower price than before and now the first five could eat for free. Outside the restaurant, they began to compare what they had saved. "I only earned a tenth of the discount!", The 6th person began. He pointed to the 10th person, "… but he earned 70 kroner !!!" - "Exactly, I also only saved ten", said the 5th person. "It's unfair that he got seven times as much as I did!"
"It's true!" Shouted the 7th person. “Why should he get SEK 70 back when I only got SEK 20? The rich always gets the most! ”-“ Wait a minute ”, shouted the first four,“ We ​​got nothing! This system exploits us poor! ”

The nine people scolded the 10th and called him a cold-hearted egoist, a capitalist pig, a bloodsucker who kicks those who lie down. The next night, the 10th person didn't come to dinner. The other nine said " how nice", sat down and ate. When the bill came, they discovered something. They couldn't pay it. SEK 520 was missing.

This is why I always pay an equal share of everything whenever I go to a strip joint.
Imagine relying on a rich friend and he doesn't turn up one night.
The horror.

[Richy_T]

Ironically my favourite motorway in the UK is the M6 expressway toll that bypasses Birmingham. It is always quiet, not having to negotiate heavy goods and there is still a hard shoulder lane. The latter I find trully astonishing is being removed from almost every other motorway in the UK under the name of "smart" motorway. It seems incredibly dangerous and completely stupid, just to save a buck instead of building more proper lanes and keeping the safety lane in place for emergencies and emergency vehicles.

Last time I was back in the UK I hopped on the M4 and it was scary how narrow the lanes are. I'm sure they're no narrower than when I lived there but you kind-of get used to not being able to count the nose-hairs of the guy driving the car in the next lane.

[nullius]

...whenever I go to a strip joint.

Ah, Bunny.  I’ve been intending to inquire, who is this?

I am asking for a friend.  He is performing academic sociological research on the bodily semiotics employed by whatever porn stars are popular nowadays.  For the sake of science, please sauce this girl.  Thanks.

* nullius trolls WO “for the articles”.

[BitcoinBunny]

Ironically my favourite motorway in the UK is the M6 expressway toll that bypasses Birmingham. It is always quiet, not having to negotiate heavy goods and there is still a hard shoulder lane. The latter I find trully astonishing is being removed from almost every other motorway in the UK under the name of "smart" motorway. It seems incredibly dangerous and completely stupid, just to save a buck instead of building more proper lanes and keeping the safety lane in place for emergencies and emergency vehicles.

Last time I was back in the UK I hopped on the M4 and it was scary how narrow the lanes are. I'm sure they're no narrower than when I lived there but you kind-of get used to not being able to count the nose-hairs of the guy driving the car in the next lane.

Yup there are some bad sections but they are even worse when they are actually building these smart motorways. Fair enough they drop the speed to 40 or 50 but it not fun having a truck pass you by that takes up about 98% of his lane's width.

[BitcoinBunny]

...whenever I go to a strip joint.

Ah, Bunny.  I’ve been intending to inquire, who is this?

I am asking for a friend.  He is performing academic sociological research on the bodily semiotics employed by whatever porn stars are popular nowadays.  For the sake of science, please sauce this girl.  Thanks.

* nullius trolls WO “for the articles”.

A youngish Ava Addams.