Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BTCETFInvestor]

@philipma1957 - Phil, what exchange or platform do you use to buy and sell Bitcoin? I know you've mentioned having Bitcoin in your PayPal account before. Is what you use to execute purchases done by using a website on a PC or done on an app on a mobile (smartphone) device? Whatever you use, I guess there are fees or the bid/ask spread is how the exchange or platform makes its money, right?  I've never heard you mention doing any trading so I don't think you're interested in that. I'm curious what you use to buy bitcoin...also what you use to transfer it. 

[Gachapin]

A see something controversial in the charts:

Since Dec 2022 low (3 years):

BCH outperformed Bitcoin during both the last three and one year time frames:

BCH at 97.7 at Dec 2022 low, now 624.12 (up 538.8%)
BCH at 480.65 one year ago, now 624.12 (up 29.84%)

BTC at 15782 at Nov 2022 low, now 87892 (up 456.9%)
BTC at 100070 one year ago, now 87892 (down 12.17%)

My read: there are some parties or a hedge fund (or a multiple of those) that are actively accumulating BCH in the last three years, accelerating in the last year and at the same time the same funds might have been shorting btc (the latter suggestion is a stretch, but could be a logical path).

I can easily see how bch can make itself more "sexy" in the short term...beware.
What would happen to the sentiment in btc if outperformance of bch would increase?
Of course, those bitcoins that were not split since 2017 would get both chains appreciation or the lack of it.

So a shitcoin outperforms Bitcoin in a bull market.... how special    

And all the other shitcoins that are doing the same... I guess they must be bought by hedge founds too right?

...Only, they are not doing the same, there is no altcoin bull run...at all (as the group, they are scraping the bottom).
The only other coins rallying are supposed "privacy"; you know the names.
Market knows something in my example and I would like to know what it is, fair enough?
Will it continue? Who knows, no prediction here, but it is doubtful.

You say no other shitcoin than BCH outperformed BTC in the last three years?  I don't think you are right.

I mean in your next sentence you mention Privacy Coins yourself...
When zoomed out BCH/BTC looks like the chart of any other dead shitcoin...

Sure someone buys BCH as well but to conclude hedge funds are doing that might be a bit far fetched...

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Biodom]

A see something controversial in the charts:

Since Dec 2022 low (3 years):

BCH outperformed Bitcoin during both the last three and one year time frames:

BCH at 97.7 at Dec 2022 low, now 624.12 (up 538.8%)
BCH at 480.65 one year ago, now 624.12 (up 29.84%)

BTC at 15782 at Nov 2022 low, now 87892 (up 456.9%)
BTC at 100070 one year ago, now 87892 (down 12.17%)

My read: there are some parties or a hedge fund (or a multiple of those) that are actively accumulating BCH in the last three years, accelerating in the last year and at the same time the same funds might have been shorting btc (the latter suggestion is a stretch, but could be a logical path).

I can easily see how bch can make itself more "sexy" in the short term...beware.
What would happen to the sentiment in btc if outperformance of bch would increase?
Of course, those bitcoins that were not split since 2017 would get both chains appreciation or the lack of it.

So a shitcoin outperforms Bitcoin in a bull market.... how special    

And all the other shitcoins that are doing the same... I guess they must be bought by hedge founds too right?

...Only, they are not doing the same, there is no altcoin bull run...at all (as the group, they are scraping the bottom).
The only other coins rallying are supposed "privacy"; you know the names.
Market knows something in my example and I would like to know what it is, fair enough?
Will it continue? Who knows, no prediction here, but it is doubtful.

That is not exactly correct because there are also other examples like Solana. It is much more up than BCH compared to its low price. If you really looked you could find a few more examples. There is nothing special about a random low cap shitcoin like BCH. They can deliver larger percentage returns more easily it means nothing.

Ehhh...no...that coin is down from 181 to 126 in the last year (down 31%), so it does what is expected of it.
BCH, on the other hand, is an inferior bitcoin fork that does not have a network effect, supposedly.
Yet, it is up 28.7% vs down 9% for bitcoin (in the last 12 mo)...I don't have an answer, but I am curious of the cause, that's all.
Both coins are POW, of course.
Flailing the hands and saying that it does not matter does not compute the answer, imho.

[Biodom]

A see something controversial in the charts:

Since Dec 2022 low (3 years):

BCH outperformed Bitcoin during both the last three and one year time frames:

BCH at 97.7 at Dec 2022 low, now 624.12 (up 538.8%)
BCH at 480.65 one year ago, now 624.12 (up 29.84%)

BTC at 15782 at Nov 2022 low, now 87892 (up 456.9%)
BTC at 100070 one year ago, now 87892 (down 12.17%)

My read: there are some parties or a hedge fund (or a multiple of those) that are actively accumulating BCH in the last three years, accelerating in the last year and at the same time the same funds might have been shorting btc (the latter suggestion is a stretch, but could be a logical path).

I can easily see how bch can make itself more "sexy" in the short term...beware.
What would happen to the sentiment in btc if outperformance of bch would increase?
Of course, those bitcoins that were not split since 2017 would get both chains appreciation or the lack of it.

So a shitcoin outperforms Bitcoin in a bull market.... how special    

And all the other shitcoins that are doing the same... I guess they must be bought by hedge founds too right?

...Only, they are not doing the same, there is no altcoin bull run...at all (as the group, they are scraping the bottom).
The only other coins rallying are supposed "privacy"; you know the names.
Market knows something in my example and I would like to know what it is, fair enough?
Will it continue? Who knows, no prediction here, but it is doubtful.

You say no other shitcoin than BCH outperformed BTC in the last three years?  I don't think you are right.

I mean in your next sentence you mention Privacy Coins yourself...
When zoomed out BCH/BTC looks like the chart of any other dead shitcoin...

Sure someone buys BCH as well but to conclude hedge funds are doing that might be a bit far fetched...

It's just i remember the interview with the former Three Arrows  Capital (3AC) co-CEO (granted, it went bankrupt back then) Su Zhu who was back in business and he was specifically saying that someone might focus of some "obscure" plays, specifically mentioning BCH as an example.
It seems tht this is the video..he only talks about it for a few seconds (https://youtu.be/fbhnt45hFRY?t=5789).

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Ehhh...no...that coin is down from 181 to 126 in the last year (down 31%), so it does what is expected of it.
BCH, on the other hand, is an inferior bitcoin fork that does not have a network effect, supposedly.
Yet, it is up 28.7% vs down 9% for bitcoin (in the last 12 mo)...I don't have an answer, but I am curious of the cause, that's all.
Both coins are POW, of course.
Flailing the hands and saying that it does not matter does not compute the answer, imho.

Yes, you are totally free to invest your time, energy and value however you like, including throwing money at random shitcoins because they seem to possibly maybe perhaps "have a chance."

That is a way to stay unfocused and even whimpy in your approach to actual value, namely bitcoin.

[Biodom]

[edited out]

Ehhh...no...that coin is down from 181 to 126 in the last year (down 31%), so it does what is expected of it.
BCH, on the other hand, is an inferior bitcoin fork that does not have a network effect, supposedly.
Yet, it is up 28.7% vs down 9% for bitcoin (in the last 12 mo)...I don't have an answer, but I am curious of the cause, that's all.
Both coins are POW, of course.
Flailing the hands and saying that it does not matter does not compute the answer, imho.

Yes, you are totally free to invest your time, energy and value however you like, including throwing money at random shitcoins because they seem to possibly maybe perhaps "have a chance."

That is a way to stay unfocused and even whimpy in your approach to actual value, namely bitcoin.

As i said before, if you did not split bch from btc in 2017, they exist together as if the split never occurred.
surely, i would have to split them if i want to sell, but i don't.
I am not about to start buying bch, this is clear.
In new purchases, i only buy btc.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[philipma1957]

@philipma1957 - Phil, what exchange or platform do you use to buy and sell Bitcoin? I know you've mentioned having Bitcoin in your PayPal account before. Is what you use to execute purchases done by using a website on a PC or done on an app on a mobile (smartphone) device? Whatever you use, I guess there are fees or the bid/ask spread is how the exchange or platform makes its money, right?  I've never heard you mention doing any trading so I don't think you're interested in that. I'm curious what you use to buy bitcoin...also what you use to transfer it.  

That is a TMI question.

I USED to use coinbase.

But they fucked up my kyc . The issue with them began in Jan 2025.

Here we are in Dec 2025 and I have not been able to fix the issue.

After months of trying to fix it.

They came up with an entirely new set of reasons of what they want for kyc.

The issue is that the delay from Jan to Dec  caused me to lose access to my nicehash mining account and with out that access I can't answer the questions asked by coinbase.

I E
I can not prove to coinbase where some btc came from since nicehash wanted a verified deposit address which was coinbase.

I GAVE UP trying to fix it.

Lost about 0.0015 btc in nicehash as they would not let me withdraw to different address.

It is a fairly stupid fuck up.

But at least coinbase let my withdraw my coins and cash.

Can't trade can't deposit a dime with them.

I Keep them open for tax records.

I DON'T I much sell I think it has been oct 2025 I sold 0.001 btc at the new ath.

[Searing]

[edited out]

Ehhh...no...that coin is down from 181 to 126 in the last year (down 31%), so it does what is expected of it.
BCH, on the other hand, is an inferior bitcoin fork that does not have a network effect, supposedly.
Yet, it is up 28.7% vs down 9% for bitcoin (in the last 12 mo)...I don't have an answer, but I am curious of the cause, that's all.
Both coins are POW, of course.
Flailing the hands and saying that it does not matter does not compute the answer, imho.

Yes, you are totally free to invest your time, energy and value however you like, including throwing money at random shitcoins because they seem to possibly maybe perhaps "have a chance."

That is a way to stay unfocused and even whimpy in your approach to actual value, namely bitcoin.

There was a time like 2014 to 2019 where you could mine sh*tcoins (me mainly LTC which I was yelled at a lot for doing at the time) to BTC and HODL

but those days ended in 2019 for even 'modest' data hall mining...stopped then as rigs were like what $15k for btc?

Remember it does NOT matter how you get your BTC at these prices...even if you over pay or sell stuff or whatever..it does matter if you HODL btc

till (IMHO) 2035 at least when 99% of all BTC has been mined. To do so you have to despise $$$ and fiat quite a bit to HODL even such

meager BTC Dust maybe.....just saying.....I also need to do the same as above just because will be annoyed if BTC does take off 10x or more

by that point...remember all $$$ you make this year you are pretty much 'unlikely' thru life and real world expense will have at the end of the year

for most folk....so you also can think about it this way..."was gonna piss this away anyway, might as well get some meager btc dust and hope"

Think of it as a 'recurring' and somewhat 'harmless' hobby for the next 10 years or so...collecting btc dust.

HODL

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Searing]

@philipma1957 - Phil, what exchange or platform do you use to buy and sell Bitcoin? I know you've mentioned having Bitcoin in your PayPal account before. Is what you use to execute purchases done by using a website on a PC or done on an app on a mobile (smartphone) device? Whatever you use, I guess there are fees or the bid/ask spread is how the exchange or platform makes its money, right?  I've never heard you mention doing any trading so I don't think you're interested in that. I'm curious what you use to buy bitcoin...also what you use to transfer it.  

That is a TMI question.

I USED to use coinbase.

But they fucked up my kyc . The issue with them began in Jan 2025.

Here we are in Dec 2025 and I have not been able to fix the issue.

After months of trying to fix it.

They came up with an entirely new set of reasons of what they want for kyc.

The issue is that the delay from Jan to Dec  caused me to lose access to my nicehash mining account and with out that access I can't answer the questions asked by coinbase.

I E
I can not prove to coinbase where some btc came from since nicehash wanted a verified deposit address which was coinbase.

I GAVE UP trying to fix it.

Lost about 0.0015 btc in nicehash as they would not let me withdraw to different address.

It is a fairly stupid fuck up.

But at least coinbase let my withdraw my coins and cash.

Can't trade can't deposit a dime with them.

I Keep them open for tax records.

I DON'T I much sell I think it has been oct 2025 I sold 0.001 btc at the new ath.

every dubious transaction for sketchy exchanges from dubious altcoin mining from 2014 to 2019 and outside the country exchange

I ever interacted with I took a screeshot for tax reasons mining....if you report it..they 'might' overlook back in the day it was not

a real exchange ..and a lot of them are down now...I do this to this day screenshot everything from coinbase

i also buy everything thru coinbase (fees are high meh) and use it with the cointracker.io package with taxes each year fee

makes a 1 sheet of my sells or buys (mostly buys) for my CPA who loves that stuff...last 5 yearss this may be like a couple dozen buys

printed out screenshots in my tax stuff even if not needed for taxes know where to find it

anyway...back when exchanges used to drop like flies and most were not really liked and used a vpn by usa govt

but screenshots of moving selling the coins paid the meager taxes on such have the screenshots printed to this day

paranoid much but paid all taxes since 2013 via a CPA ...setup the new PayCoin (scam) 2 weeks to setup blockchain using sha 256 with others to

start their blockchain

in our defense did not know it was a scam but i was not gonna keep it in paycoin...so dragged the old knc jupiter btc miner  out 2 years after

difficulty defunct. Again did not think it was a scam but little faith in the project as such

and converted to btc daily. Again, that was almost exactly 1/2 btc I still have.

Had a company in town hacked/blackmailed paid the hackers off with $1k of btc bought from me as

a tip for my help...another .33 btc ...bitcointalk had signature taglines (ads) back when started (some dubious) taglines to posts

made 1/2 a btc a month..1 year for sure...i think ..all somewhere as screenshot and printed out in the tax files as a screenshot

again, not such a big deal to be so paranoid with screenshots and today with online tools using blockchain..but still

allowed me to sleep better though back in the day when regulations were on the fly or just made up monthly by feds/state

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Ehhh...no...that coin is down from 181 to 126 in the last year (down 31%), so it does what is expected of it.
BCH, on the other hand, is an inferior bitcoin fork that does not have a network effect, supposedly.
Yet, it is up 28.7% vs down 9% for bitcoin (in the last 12 mo)...I don't have an answer, but I am curious of the cause, that's all.
Both coins are POW, of course.
Flailing the hands and saying that it does not matter does not compute the answer, imho.

Yes, you are totally free to invest your time, energy and value however you like, including throwing money at random shitcoins because they seem to possibly maybe perhaps "have a chance."

That is a way to stay unfocused and even whimpy in your approach to actual value, namely bitcoin.

As i said before, if you did not split bch from btc in 2017, they exist together as if the split never occurred.
surely, i would have to split them if i want to sell, but i don't.
I am not about to start buying bch, this is clear.
In new purchases, i only buy btc.

Yep.  We may well be repeating ourselves since I already responded to your choice to hang onto both chains (or all of the chains), and yeah, maybe I should have had just left my BCH too.. .. but instead I figured out how to split them and I sold what I had.. and maybe I averaged around 12% of a bitcoin or something like that from my sale of bcash (BCH).  I am not completely sure since I sold some as high as 27%  of a bitcoin, and quite a bit around 16% of a bitcoin, and there were some that I sold less than 10%.. I cannot recall all of the details, since there were some that I had on exchanges and there were some that I had on private wallets that I had to figure out how to split the Bcash out.. It was not a straight-forwards process for me, and I likely learned a few things in going through that process and learning somewhat about derivation paths and some other technical matters that I am not not even sure I can repeat (maybe I did not learn some of the private key management things that I had temporarily learned). 

In my earlier post responding to your disclosure of never having had split them (to sell of the BCH), I accused you of being indecisive in regards to your commitment to bitcoin. and yeah maybe I was guessing a wee bit in some ways attempt to synchronize from aspects of your character that I have seen coming out from time through your various forum posts through the years in which you have ongoingly shown your inabilities to commit to dee cornz in a prioritizing (or more on the aggressive side), which has contributed to your ongoing whimpiness in your approach through the years in regards to dee cornz.. even though we have similar forum registration dates and even though I cannot be sure regarding how our budgets might have differed, yet you seem to love some distraction into something other than bitcoin.

Have you done way better than the no coiners and the even more whimpy low coiners (if such a thing is possible) or the guys trading and getting involved in shitcoins? most likely you have done better, even with your ongoing whimpy approach to bitcoin.. .Most likely you have done quite well with your 20 cornz that you bought for around $6k in 2015, even though you could have had done much moar better with moar coinz and you would not have to wait for $20 million bitcoin in order to take advantage of your current stash...

Sure I cannot answer for your cashflow and/or your various obligations or even your choices to dilute your bitcoin (hedge).. when you likely could have had stayed moar focused in your time, energy and value towards bitcoin... so yeah, my criticism of your ongoing whimpy-ass approach to dee cornz is not complete in terms of the factual information, even though it continues to be a somewhat fun theme to pursue.. since it is good to have comparisons and contrasts including considerations in regards to the whimpy investor into bitcoin compared to the not so whimpy investor into bitcoin.  How has that played out?

[edited out]

There was a time like 2014 to 2019 where you could mine sh*tcoins (me mainly LTC which I was yelled at a lot for doing at the time) to BTC and HODLbut those days ended in 2019 for even 'modest' data hall mining...stopped then as rigs were like what $15k for btc?

Remember it does NOT matter how you get your BTC at these prices...even if you over pay or sell stuff or whatever..it does matter if you HODL btc till (IMHO) 2035 at least when 99% of all BTC has been mined. To do so you have to despise $$$ and fiat quite a bit to HODL even such  meager BTC Dust maybe.....just saying.....I also need to do the same as above just because will be annoyed if BTC does take off 10x or more  by that point...remember all $$$ you make this year you are pretty much 'unlikely' thru life and real world expense will have at the end of the year  for most folk....so you also can think about it this way..."was gonna piss this away anyway, might as well get some meager btc dust and hope"

Think of it as a 'recurring' and somewhat 'harmless' hobby for the next 10 years or so...collecting btc dust.
HODL

I think that currently it matters how you get your coins and what kinds of risks you are subjecting yourself to when you get your coins, and of course, I am likely not the only one in these here parts who questions wasting time, energy and/or value getting involved in shitcoins or getting involved in trading  of bitcoin or getting involved in paper bitcoins and the various ways of leveraging with financial instruments in order to try to get more bitcoin.  Many guys, besides me, are likely concerned about how coins are gotten..  

Sure once you have already gotten your coins you have your coins in your possession (such as having the private keys), then you are likely in better shape than if you have not yet gotten the coins and you are plotting all kinds of convoluted plans rather than just straight forward and ongoing accumulation of coins through buying them regularly and persistently.

Once you already have coins, it might be a different story in regards to considering how many coins you have that affects how you manage your coins in the present and into the future, once you already have them rather than how you had ended up getting them and/or what kinds of dumb shit that you had ended up doing in order to get the coins that you ended up getting.

But, yeah, sometimes guys who did dumb shit and engaged in risky behaviors in the past, they may well be inclined to continue to do dumb shit and exercise bad judgement into the future, even if they might have had gotten lucky to have had gotten some coins in the past.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Richy_T]

What is this?  

Old, old Wall observer in-joke. Means CB doesn't have any data for the period. Usually because of exchange issues but sometimes because I messed up (almost assuredly the former in this case).

[ESG]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

.
..: At least _RT don't get mad at me talking to
 you buddy, it's going to be bad
the day he gets mad...
...hehehe

[Richy_T]

i know some folks here some sweet coffee/espresso/etc kit. any recommendations?

I have the Philips Lattego and I like it a lot. I figure it has paid for itself already over the single-serve pods I used to use and makes much better coffee to boot.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[philipma1957]

As for coffee I use a whole house sediment filter the a reverse osmosis filter.

and then this old school perk

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004R946?

then filter the whole perked pot into this

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Stanley-2-Quart-Stainless-Steel-Insulated-Water-Bottle/5013767409?

using this filter for the grinds

https://www.amazon.com/Coffee-Filter-Reusable-Strainer-Stainless/dp/B0F24Y8JHW/ref=sr_1_19?

Stays warm enough for 5-6 hours.

I like a few ground beans.  Mostly hazelnut flavored but lots of grinds are good in it.

[Biodom]

[edited out]

Ehhh...no...that coin is down from 181 to 126 in the last year (down 31%), so it does what is expected of it.
BCH, on the other hand, is an inferior bitcoin fork that does not have a network effect, supposedly.
Yet, it is up 28.7% vs down 9% for bitcoin (in the last 12 mo)...I don't have an answer, but I am curious of the cause, that's all.
Both coins are POW, of course.
Flailing the hands and saying that it does not matter does not compute the answer, imho.

Yes, you are totally free to invest your time, energy and value however you like, including throwing money at random shitcoins because they seem to possibly maybe perhaps "have a chance."

That is a way to stay unfocused and even whimpy in your approach to actual value, namely bitcoin.

As i said before, if you did not split bch from btc in 2017, they exist together as if the split never occurred.
surely, i would have to split them if i want to sell, but i don't.
I am not about to start buying bch, this is clear.
In new purchases, i only buy btc.

Yep.  We may well be repeating ourselves since I already responded to your choice to hang onto both chains (or all of the chains), and yeah, maybe I should have had just left my BCH too.. .. but instead I figured out how to split them and I sold what I had.. and maybe I averaged around 12% of a bitcoin or something like that from my sale of bcash (BCH).  I am not completely sure since I sold some as high as 27%  of a bitcoin, and quite a bit around 16% of a bitcoin, and there were some that I sold less than 10%.. I cannot recall all of the details, since there were some that I had on exchanges and there were some that I had on private wallets that I had to figure out how to split the Bcash out.. It was not a straight-forwards process for me, and I likely learned a few things in going through that process and learning somewhat about derivation paths and some other technical matters that I am not not even sure I can repeat (maybe I did not learn some of the private key management things that I had temporarily learned).  

In my earlier post responding to your disclosure of never having had split them (to sell of the BCH), I accused you of being indecisive in regards to your commitment to bitcoin. and yeah maybe I was guessing a wee bit in some ways attempt to synchronize from aspects of your character that I have seen coming out from time through your various forum posts through the years in which you have ongoingly shown your inabilities to commit to dee cornz in a prioritizing (or more on the aggressive side), which has contributed to your ongoing whimpiness in your approach through the years in regards to dee cornz.. even though we have similar forum registration dates and even though I cannot be sure regarding how our budgets might have differed, yet you seem to love some distraction into something other than bitcoin.

Have you done way better than the no coiners and the even more whimpy low coiners (if such a thing is possible) or the guys trading and getting involved in shitcoins? most likely you have done better, even with your ongoing whimpy approach to bitcoin.. .Most likely you have done quite well with your 20 cornz that you bought for around $6k in 2015, even though you could have had done much moar better with moar coinz and you would not have to wait for $20 million bitcoin in order to take advantage of your current stash...

Sure I cannot answer for your cashflow and/or your various obligations or even your choices to dilute your bitcoin (hedge).. when you likely could have had stayed moar focused in your time, energy and value towards bitcoin... so yeah, my criticism of your ongoing whimpy-ass approach to dee cornz is not complete in terms of the factual information, even though it continues to be a somewhat fun theme to pursue.. since it is good to have comparisons and contrasts including considerations in regards to the whimpy investor into bitcoin compared to the not so whimpy investor into bitcoin.  How has that played out?

I told you over the years that the idea that I purchased 20btc for 5K is incorrect and it was just an example in one of my posts to show that, theoretically, you didn't have to be a high income individual to purchase a significant amount of btc in 2014-2015. I posted this way back, but you seem to latch on it...similar to your 'obsession' with that 0.63btc number of yours .
I don't constantly correct you because it is a bit tiresome. Instead, it is accurate to say that i have some bitcoin and I buy more periodically with no current plans to sell. That said, i sold some in 2017 and 2020. So far, every single sale proved in time to be sub-optimal.

I also like to do financial research and have an active stock portfolio and currently researching what my future SWR should be if and when I would stop working. Bitcoin would fit right in.