Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Richy_T]

banks

found the error in your thinking

I believe it's governments too. Banks would be quite happy to keep your account with money in it open forever. It's just a number on a spreadsheet to them.

[OgNasty]

BIP-361 Proposes Freezing Quantum-Vulnerable Bitcoin Addresses

Bitcoin developers and researchers have proposed BIP-361, which suggests freezing early Bitcoin addresses considered to have quantum vulnerabilities—primarily P2PK addresses with publicly exposed public keys—to prevent future quantum computers from deriving private keys from public data and stealing funds.



https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0361.mediawiki
X

Nice.

Early adopters have their coins taken from them by the devs, destroying Bitcoin's value

or

Early adopters move their coins, scaring the shit out of the market

or

(Maybe) some of the early addresses get hacked (Maybe).

Sounds like we're being set up for lose/lose here.

The upside is that we all will get a free quantum resistant Bitcoin for every Bitcoin we have now. You just have to decide if you want to gamble and choose to sell one or keep them both. Given the quantum FUD at the moment, the market would likely choose whatever new fork the core devs push and I think it is a safe bet that some other things will be slipped in to take advantage of this unique opportunity as well.

[7788bitcoin]

~
Early adopters have their coins taken from them by the devs, destroying Bitcoin's value

ECDSA and Schnorr becomes invalid 5 years after activation according to the proposal which is ludicrous.

 

Early adopters move their coins, scaring the shit out of the market

If the proposal is implemented, it will crash the entire market.
 

~
Bitcoin is not an altcoin, there will be no freezing of any kind. Please move to the altcoin section with this.

Proposal is real, whether it gets implemented is to be seen.

[BitHodlers]

The upside is that we all will get a free quantum resistant Bitcoin for every Bitcoin we have now. You just have to decide if you want to gamble and choose to sell one or keep them both. Given the quantum FUD at the moment, the market would likely choose whatever new fork the core devs push and I think it is a safe bet that some other things will be slipped in to take advantage of this unique opportunity as well.

This is not a Bitcoin fork and it is not being proposed by main Core developers.

~
Bitcoin is not an altcoin, there will be no freezing of any kind. Please move to the altcoin section with this.

Proposal is real, whether it gets implemented is to be seen.

Making an implementation is easy, reaching consensus is the hard part.

[philipma1957]

BIP-361 Proposes Freezing Quantum-Vulnerable Bitcoin Addresses

Bitcoin developers and researchers have proposed BIP-361, which suggests freezing early Bitcoin addresses considered to have quantum vulnerabilities—primarily P2PK addresses with publicly exposed public keys—to prevent future quantum computers from deriving private keys from public data and stealing funds.



https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0361.mediawiki
X

Nice.

Early adopters have their coins taken from them by the devs, destroying Bitcoin's value

or

Early adopters move their coins, scaring the shit out of the market

or

(Maybe) some of the early addresses get hacked (Maybe).

Sounds like we're being set up for lose/lose here.

because the older coins from blocks 1 to 210,000 that are untouched need to be

moved into new fresh bc1q******  addresses


I have talked about this on and off for 2 to 4 years.

and I always stated it is a mortal lock to happen.

now those stale 2009 to dec 2012 coins remember 10.5 million were mined are the problem I said would happen years ago.

I would love loyce to show how many of those 210,000 blocks are frozen and have never moved a coin.

and I would suggest to the owners of those frozen coins they should move them now .

would be cool to see that many stale never withdrawn block/addresses are not lost.

may as well start to move them before the idiots make moron fix it laws active.

just think if 3 million coins never moved from blocks 1 to 210,000

and in the next year 1.5 million  move and sit in a lot of

new fresh bc1q******  addresses that stay idol

the urgency to make the law goes away.

and we get to see if the truly stuck coins are hackable.

Although if 1.5 to 2 million coins from those 210,000 star blocks moved and stayed frozen

I would guess people would say we should move the stale ones for safety .

I think if lucky I will live long enough to see if the moves happen.

[philipma1957]

banks

found the error in your thinking

I believe it's governments too. Banks would be quite happy to keep your account with money in it open forever. It's just a number on a spreadsheet to them.

if you do figure out you have an abandoned account banks are required to have a process to restore you $$

I have bounced this idea around on site for years. I have always said it is a lock that they will try to do this 1 day (trumpppppp?)


well I was right they are officially trying to do it.

[BitHodlers]

and I would suggest to the owners of those frozen coins they should move them now .

If a person lost the keys or died they can't really move them now can they? 

[WatChe]

I like to watch a good game sometimes, what about the rest of you? Maybe Italy won't be going to the World Cup this year, but they have some interesting things to offer when it comes to sports

I am waiting for game between Man City and Arsenal on coming weekend. It will be exciting because it's a must win for Man city if they want to win ongoing title. If Man City won, then gunners will be just 3 points ahead of Man City.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Biodom]

I like to watch a good game sometimes, what about the rest of you? Maybe Italy won't be going to the World Cup this year, but they have some interesting things to offer when it comes to sports

I am waiting for game between Man City and Arsenal on coming weekend. It will be exciting because it's a must win for Man city if they want to win ongoing title. If Man City won, then gunners will be just 3 points ahead of Man City.

I am not a fan of either clubs, but getting a little fed up with Man City (maybe because of their style of play).
Interestingly, they didn't do too well in Europe over the years despite their Premier League dominance (at least nothing comparable with Real as MC won the CL only once).

EDIT: That said, i am actually rooting for Atletico to finally win CL as unlikely as it may be to compensate for the prior "tears".

[philipma1957]

and I would suggest to the owners of those frozen coins they should move them now .

If a person lost the keys or died they can't really move them now can they?  

I specifically covered lost coins in that post.  

<snip>


because the older coins from blocks 1 to 210,000 that are untouched need to be

moved into new fresh bc1q******  addresses


I have talked about this on and off for 2 to 4 years.

and I always stated it is a mortal lock to happen.

now those stale 2009 to dec 2012 coins remember 10.5 million were mined are the problem I said would happen years ago.

I would love loyce to show how many of those 210,000 blocks are frozen and have never moved a coin.

and I would suggest to the owners of those frozen coins they should move them now .

would be cool to see that many stale never withdrawn block/addresses are not lost.

may as well start to move them before the idiots make moron fix it laws active.

just think if 3 million coins never moved from blocks 1 to 210,000

and in the next year 1.5 million  move and sit in a lot of

new fresh bc1q******  addresses that stay idol

the urgency to make the law goes away.

and we get to see if the truly stuck coins are hackable.

Although if 1.5 to 2 million coins from those 210,000 star blocks moved and stayed frozen

I would guess people would say we should move the stale ones for safety .

I think if lucky I will live long enough to see if the moves happen.

[OgNasty]

and I would suggest to the owners of those frozen coins they should move them now .

That doesn't seem great for my old Casascius coins.  I'm supposed to peel them now out of fear and destroy legendary collectibles because developers see an opportunity to push a fork using quantum FUD?  I swear, if I discovered Bitcoin today I would run screaming from it.  Sad because all the bad in Bitcoin stems from just a dozen or so people who have managed to continuously chase away longtime supporters to keep the massive influx of new users in the dark about the true history of Bitcoin.  It's like the 2017 fork was a Thanos snap and anyone who didn't get on board with core and their digital gold pivot has had their reputations dragged through the mud, been victims of all sorts of IRL harassment, and are routinely trolled here to try and force their exit as well.

Ask yourself what feedback I've left that caused me to have my trust ratings blacklisted from DT?  What horrible move did I make that dragged me from the most trusted user on this site by a wide margin to someone who carries negative DT ratings from an individual that doxxed me?  Has anyone on this site given back as much as I have to this community?  15 years of free electricity and hosting for my public mining organization.  Funded minting and donated profits from coin sales to members.  More than a thousand BTC distributed to users here.  Safeguarded nearly 20,000 BTC of trades with my escrow services.  I'm the only person to ever touch the forum's treasury funds and give back more than I received...  I didn't leave and now I'm being sued for over 10 million dollars while the administration stays silent on the issue.  It's actually insane.  Hard to believe an open source project could succeed in this environment.  I suspect it will until it doesn't and when the 4-year cycle breaks it won't be to the upside like people here seem to think...

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Hueristic]

a fire will burn the 3d and a fire would burn door jams.


i suppose you could  make a few hard drives with core on them .  put  them into a  safe deposit box

A fire would have to be pretty damn hot to melt door hinges to the point an engraving couldn't be read, but I guess that mostly depends on the door hinges you use.  Cheap hinges made out of less desirable material would definitely be an issue.  The simple solution if you are concerned about fire would be to use a fire safe.  Just don't get it confused as being a real safe and thinking it will protect from theft.  You can pop open most fire safes in a few minutes with things laying around the house.

I have 5 titanium plates.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/157358507937

I still do not want the trezor to get melted. it can sit in the safe deposit box.

and the 5 plates are in safe places. not my home.

This also prevents the wrench attack.

 Did you get those plates from BobLawBlaw?
 

LOL, was my first thought as well.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[philipma1957]

and I would suggest to the owners of those frozen coins they should move them now .

That doesn't seem great for my old Casascius coins.  I'm supposed to peel them now out of fear and destroy legendary collectibles because developers see an opportunity to push a fork using quantum FUD?  I swear, if I discovered Bitcoin today I would run screaming from it.  Sad because all the bad in Bitcoin stems from just a dozen or so people who have managed to continuously chase away longtime supporters to keep the massive influx of new users in the dark about the true history of Bitcoin.  It's like the 2017 fork was a Thanos snap and anyone who didn't get on board with core and their digital gold pivot has had their reputations dragged through the mud, been victims of all sorts of IRL harassment, and are routinely trolled here to try and force their exit as well.

Ask yourself what feedback I've left that caused me to have my trust ratings blacklisted from DT?  What horrible move did I make that dragged me from the most trusted user on this site by a wide margin to someone who carries negative DT ratings from an individual that doxxed me?  Has anyone on this site given back as much as I have to this community?  15 years of free electricity and hosting for my public mining organization.  Funded minting and donated profits from coin sales to members.  More than a thousand BTC distributed to users here.  Safeguarded nearly 20,000 BTC of trades with my escrow services.  I'm the only person to ever touch the forum's treasury funds and give back more than I received...  I didn't leave and now I'm being sued for over 10 million dollars while the administration stays silent on the issue.  It's actually insane.  Hard to believe an open source project could succeed in this environment.  I suspect it will until it doesn't and when the 4-year cycle breaks it won't be to the upside like people here seem to think...

yeah that sucks.  it would be a solid hit to any collectable item with an older address.

personally I never liked he idea but I started to see signs of it happening as we got to 69k in 2021.

there are a lot of reasons for the push.

but
1) Etfs keep price more level .  by ETFs all paper btc.
2) in 2036 around 160k coins left
3) in 2040 around 80k coins left.

4) this makes ai pressure as a hedge for mining companies real.

5) if they force the freeze of stale coins and 1 mill are not moved they could shift some into funding the miners.
6) a real fear of price not rising to 1 mill when blocks are only .196 or so in 2040

to go back to 6) does anyone think  we do

1 mill in 2040
2 mill in 2044
4 mill in 2048
8 mill in 2052

I don't which is why they made ETF's and paper btc.

[Biodom]

Well, WS is on board.
Now, the last vestige is the "intellectual opposition" that is coming from the AI field.

Posting mostly for a reference (obviously,  I disagree):
Here is AWG from the "Moonshots":

https://youtu.be/5ak26W2YNRY?t=6103

BTW, Dave (DB2) also thinks that quantum risks are overblown (watch for a few sec prior to my snippet if you want) and two others on this podcast own bitcoin.
One interesting reference is that Diamandis, Dave and Michael Saylor were all roommates at the MIT dorm.
This is quite amusing.

[Biodom]

and I would suggest to the owners of those frozen coins they should move them now .

That doesn't seem great for my old Casascius coins.  I'm supposed to peel them now out of fear and destroy legendary collectibles because developers see an opportunity to push a fork using quantum FUD?  I swear, if I discovered Bitcoin today I would run screaming from it.  Sad because all the bad in Bitcoin stems from just a dozen or so people who have managed to continuously chase away longtime supporters to keep the massive influx of new users in the dark about the true history of Bitcoin.  It's like the 2017 fork was a Thanos snap and anyone who didn't get on board with core and their digital gold pivot has had their reputations dragged through the mud, been victims of all sorts of IRL harassment, and are routinely trolled here to try and force their exit as well.

Ask yourself what feedback I've left that caused me to have my trust ratings blacklisted from DT?  What horrible move did I make that dragged me from the most trusted user on this site by a wide margin to someone who carries negative DT ratings from an individual that doxxed me?  Has anyone on this site given back as much as I have to this community?  15 years of free electricity and hosting for my public mining organization.  Funded minting and donated profits from coin sales to members.  More than a thousand BTC distributed to users here.  Safeguarded nearly 20,000 BTC of trades with my escrow services.  I'm the only person to ever touch the forum's treasury funds and give back more than I received...  I didn't leave and now I'm being sued for over 10 million dollars while the administration stays silent on the issue.  It's actually insane.  Hard to believe an open source project could succeed in this environment.  I suspect it will until it doesn't and when the 4-year cycle breaks it won't be to the upside like people here seem to think...

<snip> to go back to 6) does anyone think  we do

1 mill in 2040
2 mill in 2044
4 mill in 2048
8 mill in 2052

I don't which is why they made ETF's and paper btc.

I definitely see btc above $1 mil in 2040, unless something tragic happens beforehand.
More than even chance...no betting, please  .

Powerlaw projects "fair value" of btc at about $4 mil in 2040 (ref: AI search).
Michael Saylor projects longterm ROI for bitcoin going forward next 20 years at about 29%.
29% from today to April 2040 is about $2.6 mil, give or take.

[Richy_T]

The upside is that we all will get a free quantum resistant Bitcoin for every Bitcoin we have now. You just have to decide if you want to gamble and choose to sell one or keep them both. Given the quantum FUD at the moment, the market would likely choose whatever new fork the core devs push and I think it is a safe bet that some other things will be slipped in to take advantage of this unique opportunity as well.

It seems to be saying that it's a soft-fork which means it's intended to be slipped in sneakily by the backdoor like segwit and not in a way the community can reject like Bitcoin Cash.