Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[OgNasty]

Why are so many people here so concerned with Satoshi's coins?

If Satoshi wanted to preserve them, he/she/they would have done so. Wasn't it Satoshi who said that lost keys shouldn't be considered lost coins but rather donations to everybody?

If they're inaccessible, be grateful for the donation.

The problem is that with quantum computing they will become accessible. Developers see that and think they should be the ones who gets to say what happens to them, not somebody who managed to beat the encryption. Just another case of developers thinking they are in charge. I had hoped more professional developers would have entered this space by now…

[philipma1957]

Why are so many people here so concerned with Satoshi's coins?

If Satoshi wanted to preserve them, he/she/they would have done so. Wasn't it Satoshi who said that lost keys shouldn't be considered lost coins but rather donations to everybody?

If they're inaccessible, be grateful for the donation.

The problem is that with quantum computing they will become accessible. Developers see that and think they should be the ones who gets to say what happens to them, not somebody who managed to beat the encryption. Just another case of developers thinking they are in charge. I had hoped more professional developers would have entered this space by now…

if you want to argue that the 1,000,000 or so frozen,abandoned,lost whatever satoshi coins should not be allowed to be stolen .

20,000 blocks or so move 19900 blocks into the genesis block .

leave 100 open to see if QC ever cracks it.

problem solved.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Biodom]

Slow moving market in bitcoin vs "crazy' predictions of $1-15 mil btc price in 5-14 years that are propagating in the media is really grinding.
Well, 6 years ago, btc was roughly 1/10 of today's value, so it is possible, but i cannot "grasp" it for some reason.

EDIT: it seems that no matter how much "inflows" into ETFs (https://youtu.be/VZVfb3DrCL4?t=330) plus Saylor's buying is happening, the price appears almost "frozen".

[cAPSLOCK]

Springtime in the Appalachians

So certainly everybody's heard the sound bites or read about the American admiral, the one who was talking about how the military is now running a node and talking a lot of the Jason Lowrey type thesis when it comes to "power projection". While acknowledging Bitcoin's financial aspects, the admiral suggests the military's interest lies elsewhere... in how this technology could benefit a nation strategically.

What on earth could that be?

Well, I think we can compare it to something that's not on Earth, and that is GPS.  Like the internet itself, GPS was designed and deployed by the US military.  And the entire world "benefits" from it. (and, well, there are certainly surveillance and privacy implications, and this topic could go on for hours on multiple tangents.)

The Admiral keeps rattling off: Cryptography, Blockchain (as a immutable ledger) and Reusable Proof of Work.   He recognizes that the Bitcoin network provides an unforgeable verification method for communications.

Being nearly impossible to change, the data in the blockchain can be reliably shown to solve an ancient Math(s) Problem!

The Byzantine generals’ problem.  Remember that one?

While modern technology has reduced some validation needs in communications, it has simultaneously created tools that compromise security.  The problem still exists... well it DID.

GPS illustrates this dual-use pattern: civilians use it to navigate to restaurants, while the military uses its more precise version to guide weapons. Similarly, Bitcoin allows society to securely transfer value, while the military can use it to transmit and verify any message through transaction hashes or other methods. I suppose they would be FOR the larger OP_RETURN?  Lol.

Securing this network requires participants to dedicate substantial computing power... either to maintain its integrity or potentially compromise it (though game theory makes the latter extremely costly and low benefit). This creates incentives for abundant, clean energy production while delivering an unhackable communications system and immutable value storage.

Downstream of this, I have some serious questions.  For example... Are we TRULY to believe this was NOT developed by the CIA/NSA?  Internet... Bang.  Location... Bang.  Truth... oh shoot... we forgot that one.  Lucky some fella with the initials N.S.(a) handled it for us.  (I gotta give JJG SOMETHING to batslap!)

But my friends here in 2026 (and those of you reading this in the future), Nothing stops THIS train!  Not clear about all the destinations.

Love,
Carolina

PS. - CCMF

[philipma1957]

Slow moving market in bitcoin vs "crazy' predictions of $1-15 mil btc price predictions in 5-14 years that are propagating in the media is really grinding.
Well, 6 years ago, btc was roughly 1/10 of today's value, so it is possible, but i cannot "grasp" it for some reason.

EDIT: it seems that no matter how much "inflows" into ETFs (https://youtu.be/VZVfb3DrCL4?t=330) plus Saylor's buying is happening, the price appears almost "frozen".

yeah  I find it concerning.

[cAPSLOCK]

Slow moving market in bitcoin vs "crazy' predictions of $1-15 mil btc price predictions in 5-14 years that are propagating in the media is really grinding.
Well, 6 years ago, btc was roughly 1/10 of today's value, so it is possible, but i cannot "grasp" it for some reason.

EDIT: it seems that no matter how much "inflows" into ETFs (https://youtu.be/VZVfb3DrCL4?t=330) plus Saylor's buying is happening, the price appears almost "frozen".

yeah  I find it concerning.

Me too.  Hopefully SOMEONE is buying real Bitcoin somewhere lol.

[BitHodlers]

I believe the solution is to ONLY deal with satoshi's coins as I believe he cannot do it himself because he is dead.

This is not good either. Just because it is only satoshi does not make it suddenly a good thing. You are still taking away someone's coins, even if they are dead..

hmm

 if you dumped all his coins into the genesis block it would work.

it would have been nice if he did that before he died or vanished.

maybe just leave all coins alone until 2059 then we would know if qc can do it.

lets just focus on coins that can be moved by key holders and what to do to make them safe.

It would but who the hell has this kind of foresight? There are also other things he could do like send to addresses that are provably not spendable from. If he is gone or if the keys are gone, then nothing can be done. If he is not gone and he has the keys, he will have an opportunity to do the greatest burn of all time and solve this.

Let's let things happen as they will instead of changing the core of Bitcoin and freezing anyone's coins or worse.. confiscating them.

Rereading philipma1957's words, I think he means SHA256 is temporary and could (will?) be replaced by a quantum-resistant hash function. POW isn't temporary (unless we are talking shitcoins like eth).

This hash function is not vulnerable to quantum computers according to what we know so far, so it is probably not going to be replaced within the lifespan of most people in this thread. Let's not waste thoughts on stuff like that otherwise you can just say everything is temporary and will be replaced, eventually..

[cAPSLOCK]

I believe the solution is to ONLY deal with satoshi's coins as I believe he cannot do it himself because he is dead.

This is not good either. Just because it is only satoshi does not make it suddenly a good thing. You are still taking away someone's coins, even if they are dead..

hmm

 if you dumped all his coins into the genesis block it would work.

it would have been nice if he did that before he died or vanished.

maybe just leave all coins alone until 2059 then we would know if qc can do it.

lets just focus on coins that can be moved by key holders and what to do to make them safe.

It would but who the hell has this kind of foresight? There are also other things he could do like send to addresses that are provably not spendable from. If he is gone or if the keys are gone, then nothing can be done. If he is not gone and he has the keys, he will have an opportunity to do the greatest burn of all time and solve this.

Let's let things happen as they will instead of changing the core of Bitcoin and freezing anyone's coins or worse.. confiscating them.

Rereading philipma1957's words, I think he means SHA256 is temporary and could (will?) be replaced by a quantum-resistant hash function. POW isn't temporary (unless we are talking shitcoins like eth).

This hash function is not vulnerable to quantum computers according to what we know so far, so it is probably not going to be replaced within the lifespan of most people in this thread. Let's not waste thoughts on stuff like that otherwise you can just say everything is temporary and will be replaced, eventually..

There is a problem with this line of thought.

The vulnerability is not with SHA256, but rather secp256k1.  That is the link in the chain (so to speak) that Shor's algo attacks.  And the the early Bitcoin addresses (P2PK) would fall.

This is a theoretical vulnerability, but not science fiction, and not entirely certainly off in the future all that far.

[OgNasty]

Why are so many people here so concerned with Satoshi's coins?

If Satoshi wanted to preserve them, he/she/they would have done so. Wasn't it Satoshi who said that lost keys shouldn't be considered lost coins but rather donations to everybody?

If they're inaccessible, be grateful for the donation.

The problem is that with quantum computing they will become accessible. Developers see that and think they should be the ones who gets to say what happens to them, not somebody who managed to beat the encryption. Just another case of developers thinking they are in charge. I had hoped more professional developers would have entered this space by now…

if you want to argue that the 1,000,000 or so frozen,abandoned,lost whatever satoshi coins should not be allowed to be stolen .

20,000 blocks or so move 19900 blocks into the genesis block .

leave 100 open to see if QC ever cracks it.

problem solved.

They are going to be stolen. It is only a matter of time. The question is if we want the free market to handle the issue or if we want developers to steal the coins. Personally, I’d rather not be a part of the theft as a supporter of the network. I actually think a quantum computer stealing them is the better moral decision. At least that way I don’t have to be an accessory to the theft.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[BitHodlers]

I believe the solution is to ONLY deal with satoshi's coins as I believe he cannot do it himself because he is dead.

This is not good either. Just because it is only satoshi does not make it suddenly a good thing. You are still taking away someone's coins, even if they are dead..

hmm

 if you dumped all his coins into the genesis block it would work.

it would have been nice if he did that before he died or vanished.

maybe just leave all coins alone until 2059 then we would know if qc can do it.

lets just focus on coins that can be moved by key holders and what to do to make them safe.

It would but who the hell has this kind of foresight? There are also other things he could do like send to addresses that are provably not spendable from. If he is gone or if the keys are gone, then nothing can be done. If he is not gone and he has the keys, he will have an opportunity to do the greatest burn of all time and solve this.

Let's let things happen as they will instead of changing the core of Bitcoin and freezing anyone's coins or worse.. confiscating them.

Rereading philipma1957's words, I think he means SHA256 is temporary and could (will?) be replaced by a quantum-resistant hash function. POW isn't temporary (unless we are talking shitcoins like eth).

This hash function is not vulnerable to quantum computers according to what we know so far, so it is probably not going to be replaced within the lifespan of most people in this thread. Let's not waste thoughts on stuff like that otherwise you can just say everything is temporary and will be replaced, eventually..

There is a problem with this line of thought.

The vulnerability is not with SHA256, but rather secp256k1.  That is the link in the chain (so to speak) that Shor's algo attacks.  And the the early Bitcoin addresses (P2PK) would fall.

This is a theoretical vulnerability, but not science fiction, and not entirely certainly off in the future all that far.

I am aware of that, and that has nothing to do with SHA256 which is what they were talking about..? So why bring it up? SHA256 is not going to be replaced while most of you are among the living, that is what I said and it is true.

[cAPSLOCK]

I believe the solution is to ONLY deal with satoshi's coins as I believe he cannot do it himself because he is dead.

This is not good either. Just because it is only satoshi does not make it suddenly a good thing. You are still taking away someone's coins, even if they are dead..

hmm

 if you dumped all his coins into the genesis block it would work.

it would have been nice if he did that before he died or vanished.

maybe just leave all coins alone until 2059 then we would know if qc can do it.

lets just focus on coins that can be moved by key holders and what to do to make them safe.

It would but who the hell has this kind of foresight? There are also other things he could do like send to addresses that are provably not spendable from. If he is gone or if the keys are gone, then nothing can be done. If he is not gone and he has the keys, he will have an opportunity to do the greatest burn of all time and solve this.

Let's let things happen as they will instead of changing the core of Bitcoin and freezing anyone's coins or worse.. confiscating them.

Rereading philipma1957's words, I think he means SHA256 is temporary and could (will?) be replaced by a quantum-resistant hash function. POW isn't temporary (unless we are talking shitcoins like eth).

This hash function is not vulnerable to quantum computers according to what we know so far, so it is probably not going to be replaced within the lifespan of most people in this thread. Let's not waste thoughts on stuff like that otherwise you can just say everything is temporary and will be replaced, eventually..

There is a problem with this line of thought.

The vulnerability is not with SHA256, but rather secp256k1.  That is the link in the chain (so to speak) that Shor's algo attacks.  And the the early Bitcoin addresses (P2PK) would fall.

This is a theoretical vulnerability, but not science fiction, and not entirely certainly off in the future all that far.

I am aware of that, and that has nothing to do with SHA256 which is what they were talking about..? So why bring it up? SHA256 is not going to be replaced while most of you are among the living, that is what I said and it is true.

I suppose I didn't notice that we had shifted from talking about Satoshi's coins like we've been talking about for such a long time in here to, I guess, the vulnerability of a quantum leap in doing hashes.

So I apologize for the misunderstanding, but it's a little confusing in here with these topics kind of pinging back and forth.

Not to mention there seem to be people in the world who can't really tell the difference between those two concepts, embarrassingly including me for at least a moment there. 😁🤪

[Biodom]

Why are so many people here so concerned with Satoshi's coins?

If Satoshi wanted to preserve them, he/she/they would have done so. Wasn't it Satoshi who said that lost keys shouldn't be considered lost coins but rather donations to everybody?

If they're inaccessible, be grateful for the donation.

The problem is that with quantum computing they will become accessible. Developers see that and think they should be the ones who gets to say what happens to them, not somebody who managed to beat the encryption. Just another case of developers thinking they are in charge. I had hoped more professional developers would have entered this space by now…

if you want to argue that the 1,000,000 or so frozen,abandoned,lost whatever satoshi coins should not be allowed to be stolen .

20,000 blocks or so move 19900 blocks into the genesis block .

leave 100 open to see if QC ever cracks it.

problem solved.

They are going to be stolen. It is only a matter of time. The question is if we want the free market to handle the issue or if we want developers to steal the coins. Personally, I’d rather not be a part of the theft as a supporter of the network. I actually think a quantum computer stealing them is the better moral decision. At least that way I don’t have to be an accessory to the theft.

I agree...if they would be stolen, so be it. I am almost fatalistic about it.
Redistribution sounds like a much worse idea, which is contradictory to the bitcoin ethos as I understand it.
I am not sure why there was no additional security 'layer' from the get-go, but I digress.

[AlcoHoDL]

Tonight's moon
Hangs in the haze
Of eternal spring

#^haiku

Haiku? 3-4-5?

Countku. Or, by elision, Cuntku.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[philipma1957]

Slow moving market in bitcoin vs "crazy' predictions of $1-15 mil btc price predictions in 5-14 years that are propagating in the media is really grinding.
Well, 6 years ago, btc was roughly 1/10 of today's value, so it is possible, but i cannot "grasp" it for some reason.

EDIT: it seems that no matter how much "inflows" into ETFs (https://youtu.be/VZVfb3DrCL4?t=330) plus Saylor's buying is happening, the price appears almost "frozen".

yeah  I find it concerning.

Me too.  Hopefully SOMEONE is buying real Bitcoin somewhere lol.

I am mining some real coin. Around. 00109 a day

[philipma1957]

Why are so many people here so concerned with Satoshi's coins?

If Satoshi wanted to preserve them, he/she/they would have done so. Wasn't it Satoshi who said that lost keys shouldn't be considered lost coins but rather donations to everybody?

If they're inaccessible, be grateful for the donation.

The problem is that with quantum computing they will become accessible. Developers see that and think they should be the ones who gets to say what happens to them, not somebody who managed to beat the encryption. Just another case of developers thinking they are in charge. I had hoped more professional developers would have entered this space by now…

if you want to argue that the 1,000,000 or so frozen,abandoned,lost whatever satoshi coins should not be allowed to be stolen .

20,000 blocks or so move 19900 blocks into the genesis block .

leave 100 open to see if QC ever cracks it.

problem solved.

They are going to be stolen. It is only a matter of time. The question is if we want the free market to handle the issue or if we want developers to steal the coins. Personally, I’d rather not be a part of the theft as a supporter of the network. I actually think a quantum computer stealing them is the better moral decision. At least that way I don’t have to be an accessory to the theft.

Frankly I want to see the cracking happen, but I do not want some rich company score the coin.



So aiding the rich company when you could drop them into the genesis block seems wrong.

To me dumping 19,900 blocks Into the genesis block and leaving 100 blocks for qc to rob seems better.

Then any other choice.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Biodom]

Kermit the Frog: Bitcoin humor