Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Gachapin]

this thread between 2014-2016 was gold

Yeah it was brilliant, shame it’s turned to shit now.

what can we do..  ..we all got rich in return

that being said, I miss the the old days WO too

[BobLawblaw]

Hey! Where are U? Tired?

Lobotomized ATM. Working on getting Deepseek V4 Flash running on my two sparks.

With any luck, BobC is back for his 9pm run tonight.

[Richy_T]

If Phil's delusional idea (of declaring unmoved coins abandoned) ever goes into effect, and coins are ever forcibly confiscated by a s/w change, that will be the beginning of the end of Bitcoin. And Craig Wright will have a hard-on until the day he dies.

This is the right of it. If governments can force code changes on Bitcoin, it's done. Only I would say it's not the beginning of the end, it's the end right there.

[Richy_T]

what can we do..  ..we all got rich in return

that being said, I miss the the old days WO too

Theymos going full-on censortard was not helpful.

[JayJuanGee]

If you think hundreds of years of abandoned property laws are not going to be used against btc you are sooo fucking delu lu it is sad.
btc is being wrapped into real fi as we type and abandoned property laws are in effect world wide for centuries.

my idea is simple and easy and will be the most gentle way to get ahead of the attack that will certainly happen to btc when it comes to abandon propety.

^I think that this is not how you present it.
Knowing what everyone literally knows (the public key) does not entitle you to claim that it was abandoned.
I also gave an example of a telescope in someone's apartment.
Seeing a telescope in a window of a Central park apartment and then seeing it again 10 years later does not entitle you to ANYTHING.
To think otherwise is simply wrong, imho.

The only potential wrinkle in all this if it is a state or fed gov who is behind this lawsuit.
I give the lawsuit a 70-90% chance of being dismissed outright.

You are correct that when the state (any government) starts pushing confiscation laws for itself, then they make all kind of inconsistent (and even unjust) proclamations about property escheating to the state - even though with bitcoin they still would have to overcome the obstacle of their not having the private key, in the event that the bitcoin is not being held by a third party who would cooperate with the government to hand over the property.

If the keys are in the hands of a private party, then the keys cannot be handed over without the cooperation of the private party, even though the movement of the UTXOs could be monitored so that if they are moved to some place in which a private party would be/could be coerced, then we cannot put it past a government to NOT intervene and/or proclaim a right to intervene... and/or to just engage in bullying and/or theft.

In many places, there do exist due process laws that involve confiscation, yet frequently governments run rough shod over those kinds of laws, and there are many ongoing injustices in the property laws around governmental confiscation/seizure (which injustices likely could also be stretched to be applied to claims of abandonment).

Yes, we are all retarded here, but not that retarded!

Mindblow.



There are levels of retardedness?

If Phil's delusional idea (of declaring unmoved coins abandoned) ever goes into effect, and coins are ever forcibly confiscated by a s/w change, that will be the beginning of the end of Bitcoin. And Craig Wright will have a hard-on until the day he dies.

Most of my coins have not been moved for many years. Should I be worried?
Yes, we are all retarded here, but not that retarded!

This is against everything bitcoin stands for. Basic property rights.
Just like some people hold stocks or ETF funds for decades , without selling them. Nobody can just confiscate them because you don't sell them in a long time.

Of course, the situation is different if the keys are not actually held by the individual.  State by state there are laws about abandoned property, so if a guy held an account and did not log in for 10 years, the state likely has laws about escheating those funds to the state.

I had that happen to me regarding one of my accounts in 2021-ish, and there was like 0.13 BTC in the account.  I had not realized that i had not logged into the account for a while and they even had some other things going on regarding that particular "exchange."  I started to get notifications in the mail about $6k-ish of property that I had and to get help to get the property returned to me.  I had no idea what those pieces of mail was talking about, and I thought that it was junk mail, but then after a while with similar mail, I made the connection. When I looked at the mail, they claimed to help me to get my property back and they would get 10% of the amount.  I looked into the matter and how to claim directly, and I was able to apply and get the whole amount back (without any fees).  The state had sold the bitcoin at around $44k-ish as soon as it "escheated" to the state, and so I ended up receiving the dollar value which was somewhere in the lower $6k-ish territories.   

In the context of an active account or a relationship with some broker, then there would be difficulties with claims of abandonment, yet surely guys can die or they might lose contact with their broker or not log into their account, yet in those cases, the individual do not have the private keys and the property would most likely escheat over to the state, as compared to situations in which the private keys are held by the individual who might have had died or otherwise disappeared (or lost access to his coins by death, disability or even forgetting his keys). In those cases, no one has the keys, not even the core developers (absent a change to the bitcoin software).

[BobLawblaw]

RIP, Sam Neill.
One of my favorite actors.
Two films instantly come to mind:
Dead Calm (1989)
Event Horizon (1997)
Great acting and style, perfect for the roles he played.

“Do you read Sutter Cane?”

In The Mouth Of Madness (1994)

RIP indeed. Great actor.

[xhomerx10]

U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina dies at age 71. RIP

His death comes just days after he visited Ukraine and met with the country's president Volodymyr Zelensky

Last Photo

 If you had said Mitch McConnell, it wouldn't have been surprising but this is almost unbelievable.  I suppose the drinking caught up with him but 71 is quite young... and the timing is fodder for conspiracy theorists.

RIP Senator

xhomerx10 - Yes, I agree. When I first heard about it I thought as you did. I'm not aware he had a drinking problem, and I can't imagine there is any valid conspiracy surrounding his sudden cardiac arrest...   Age 71 is still young enough for many more years...

There are already conspiracy theories. And the timing of his death is interesting. He had visited a drone factory in Ukraine within 24 hours.

I believe this image is real and from this most recent trip, but who knows nowadays?



Of course, the most likely thing is the most likely situation... 😁

At 71, and particularly, if, as it has been rumored, he was a somewhat heavy drinker, sitting on a long flight back to the states from the opposite side of the world could have caused a clot to accumulate... deep vein thrombosis.  And then sometime, upon coming home, he might have seen that clot cause a heart attack or a stroke.

Far more likely than Vladimir Putin sending one of his secret poisoning agents to poke him or him being in one of the drone facilities that was bombed by Russia yesterday. Those are both current conspiracy theories.

This senator was known to those who follow politics in the EU because he was strongly involved in helping Ukraine and preserving the alliance between the EU and the US. Life is unpredictable, but it's a little strange that he passed away just after returning from Ukraine. RIP senator🇺🇸🇪🇺🇺🇦

For those who like conspiracy theories, I will connect his death with the forced retirement of one of the most popular US generals and a great friend of the EU, General. Christopher Donahue. The fact is that the EU has lost two very important people on its side when it comes to the US.

During the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021, while serving as a commander of the 82nd Airborne, Donahue was photographed boarding the final C-17 out of Hamid Karzai International Airport and widely described as the “last soldier” out of Afghanistan. Donahue spent the majority of his career leading ground combat and special operations troops after commissioning in 1992.

 There's not much of a conspiracy wrt the retirement of Gen. Christopher Donahue.  The current US administration is moving to reduce the number of troops in Europe by 1/3 and wants Europe to be responsible for its own defense.  Donahue disagreed so he was out.  He was given some leeway as to his exact retirement date but then while speaking in Estonia, he said "The United States will be there alongside you... ...Not with words from a podium, but with boots in the mud" and this was a slap in the face to the current administration so maybe they were correct in their decision to retire him?  At any rate, after that show of defiance, he was given the old "Here's your coat; what's your hurry?" treatment and within 48 hours was packing up his office.  Foreign policy is not your game CD.  Gonzo.  It's the military; Ya gots ta do what dey tell ya.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[cAPSLOCK]

If Phil's delusional idea (of declaring unmoved coins abandoned) ever goes into effect, and coins are ever forcibly confiscated by a s/w change, that will be the beginning of the end of Bitcoin. And Craig Wright will have a hard-on until the day he dies.

This is the right of it. If governments can force code changes on Bitcoin, it's done. Only I would say it's not the beginning of the end, it's the end right there.

I don't think governments will be able to do that without forcing a chain split.  And because Bitcoin is decentralized, it will thrive in places where there are not antagonistic governments and continue on just fine. It will also find gray markets and black markets in jurisdictions where it is persecuted.

This would certainly change adoption and possibly rock the price, but it would require worldwide coordination.

If Western governments coordinated to do this and the more authoritarian Asian governments either went along for the ride or continued their own campaign of marginalizing Bitcoin, then we're just handing it to people who are natural enemies with what Western democracies stood for, at least when they were still standing for those ideals.  Or if you prefer... Maverick countries that buck the evil U.S. Western hegemony.  Iran has basically proved for the point already.

[Hueristic]

Hey! Where are U? Tired?

Lobotomized ATM. Working on getting Deepseek V4 Flash running on my two sparks.

With any luck, BobC is back for his 9pm run tonight.

Beat me to it, looking forward to the verdict.

[shahzadafzal]

If Phil's delusional idea (of declaring unmoved coins abandoned) ever goes into effect, and coins are ever forcibly confiscated by a s/w change, that will be the beginning of the end of Bitcoin. And Craig Wright will have a hard-on until the day he dies.

This is the right of it. If governments can force code changes on Bitcoin, it's done. Only I would say it's not the beginning of the end, it's the end right there.

I don't think governments will be able to do that without forcing a chain split.  And because Bitcoin is decentralized, it will thrive in places where there are not antagonistic governments and continue on just fine. It will also find gray markets and black markets in jurisdictions where it is persecuted.

This would certainly change adoption and possibly rock the price, but it would require worldwide coordination.

If Western governments coordinated to do this and the more authoritarian Asian governments either went along for the ride or continued their own campaign of marginalizing Bitcoin, then we're just handing it to people who are natural enemies with what Western democracies stood for, at least when they were still standing for those ideals.  Or if you prefer... Maverick countries that buck the evil U.S. Western hegemony.  Iran has basically proved for the point already.

Exactly. Even in a hypothetical scenario where governments coordinate worldwide, would they actually be able to stop Bitcoin?

I mean, have they managed to stop money laundering, drug trafficking, or cross-border crime? Governments have been cooperating against those for decades, yet they still exist.

Okay, that's probably a terrible example in Bitcoin's favor... but you get the point. 😄

Bitcoin doesn't know the difference between:

a lost wallet,
Satoshi's coins,
a long-term HODLer,
someone in prison,
someone who simply hasn't touched their wallet for 15 years.

That's by design.

Once you start making subjective decisions about who "deserves" their coins, you've fundamentally changed Bitcoin.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Biodom]

In lieu of memory crashing somewhat today, i expected better performance from bitcoin..oh, well...

BTW, SPCX is approaching the IPO price.
In such cases what often happens is hedge funds apply a lot of pressure to "break the floor".
If the floor breaks, it could drop 10-12% in a day or two.
In such case, i would add at about $120 or so to my IPO stash.
Not an investment advice...some people suggest $75 as a fair value, but that might happen only in a true recession, perhaps.

[Mahiyammahi]

If Phil's delusional idea (of declaring unmoved coins abandoned) ever goes into effect, and coins are ever forcibly confiscated by a s/w change, that will be the beginning of the end of Bitcoin. And Craig Wright will have a hard-on until the day he dies.

This is the right of it. If governments can force code changes on Bitcoin, it's done. Only I would say it's not the beginning of the end, it's the end right there.

Lol, I think if the government wants to forcefully change the Bitcoin code, they either have to cut off the entire world from the internet and give internet access to only a handful of people, or it will never be possible.

Because Bitcoin is not in the hands of a single person or organization. It is a distributed network, where countless people and nodes participate. So no one can unilaterally change its code if they want to.

Just as you can't make the entire world without the internet, you can't forcefully change the Bitcoin code. At least that's what I believe.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[OutOfMemory]

RIP, Sam Neill.

One of my favorite actors.

Two films instantly come to mind:

Dead Calm (1989)
Event Horizon (1997)

Great acting and style, perfect for the roles he played.

Event Horizon FTW.
I can still remember when i was watching it, totally baked, as the last one awake at a party at 2 am.
Watched it a few times, it's so great and dark. Gotta watch it again.
The first movie after which i remembered Sam's name, though i had seen Jurassic Park first, but i only remembered Goldblum from it (as a name), though i have seen The Fly before, too.

An anekdote: I was having breakfast somewhere in Central Otago (NZ south island, an area famous for growing wine) in 2007 when i actually saw Sam Neill, sitting alone in a small Bar/Cafe. I had ham, eggs, toast with some sweet marmelade. I had to glance at him a few times, until i was sure it was him. Later on, i googled him and learned that he had a vineyard somewhere in the area. I didn't talk to him however, because i thought he would like to stay private. Before that day, i always thought he was an american/english guy.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[bitmover]

Spcx closed almost in IPO price.
$ 139

Any buyers now?
There will be a big dump in about 5 months when most lock ups end.

[Biodom]

Spcx closed almost in IPO price.
$ 139

Any buyers now?
There will be a big dump in about 5 months when most lock ups end.

I would be a buyer from $120 (if it ever gets there)...loved the "Star Trek" and "Star Trek NG".
That said, I would add slowly (my base is $135-the IPO price).

That said, something interesting is coming:

https://finance.yahoo.com/technology/ai/articles/workers-just-sent-ai-companies-160300413.html

for some "firing" numbers, scroll down to the second article:

AI went from 7% of cited layoff reasons in January to 10% in February, 25% in March, 26% in April, and nearly 40% in May.