Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[coins101]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.
2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally.

I think I just got proxy trollfied.  Please ignore Jorge.  He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.

1. Well all of those things are negated because you have to deal with the banking system in the first place to get bitcoin. Actually, I would think it would be more expensive for consumers to purchase something because of the fees at the bank and coinbase.
2. Ok.. reasons would be much appreciated though.

Jorge strikes me as an intelligent guy. Scare away noobs? Why would he waste his time on that. An accomplished CS professor investing time to scare noobs.. cmon.

Foreign exchange shops usually have signs that say 'no commission'.

Fiat noobs don't understand that means they are getting ripped off through exchange rates.

[seleme]

Remember the dollar is stronger right now than it was a few weeks ago... almost 10% so. Thus, add 10%-20% so versus other baskets of currency and about 5% against gold. If you factor that in... the price really isn't quite as low as you think. A little low. Not as low as you think, though.

Good point. Dollar slaughtered other currencies recently.

[wachtwoord]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.
2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally.

I think I just got proxy trollfied.  Please ignore Jorge.  He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.

1. Don't forget the discounts! (which will be more and more widespread as the companies avoid the ridiculous credit card fees).
2. And reasons for 2? To keep the same investment level you had before. Note that not everyone needs to do this for my argument to hold (just some). The same is true for point 1

[esse83]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.
2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally.

I think I just got proxy trollfied.  Please ignore Jorge.  He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.

1. Don't forget the discounts! (which will be more and more widespread as the companies avoid the ridiculous credit card fees).
2. And reasons for 2? To keep the same investment level you had before. Note that not everyone needs to do this for my argument to hold (just some). The same is true for point 1

So I would have to pay 2x the price to buy something?... Why not just use fiat (keep my bitcoins) and skip that reinvestment step. I'm not seeing much a killer argument for why anyone would use coinbase to buy stuff.

[kurb3l]

Forget the price for a moment.  Daily and weekly price movements are noise.  Everyone who cries about companies adopting btc because it puts pressure on the price needs to get a brain that thinks more than a week in advance.

The big picture is that the future of bitcoin is adoption and usage by more and more people.  Dell, Global Payments, PayPal, etc, are all steps forward in usage.  Remittance actually works in the Philippines, at a total cost of 2% (buying, transmitting, selling, dumping cash into bank account), and other countries will follow.  None of these will have a huge short term impact on price.  But they are necessary and huge successes in the long term, and should be priced in as major stepping stones forward.

The next step is store of value, taking on the tax haven money and gold bugs.  These will have a much larger effect on price, but require more stability in price.

If you only care about the price in 6 months, hate on PayPal adoption.  If you care about the price in 2 years, cheer for PayPal adoption.  More usage, more adoption, demands a higher market cap in the future.

I'm not hating on the PayPal adoption, i actually think it is a huge step forward. The product that PayPal is selling is their easy-to-use payment system. You can buy things internationally with one click and don't have to exchange money. PayPal takes care of it all. The thing that brought me to bitcoin is the economic principle behind it and in my opinion people will be able to use bitcoin just as another payment option. So they won't have to care about the idea behind it. While this widens the possible usage, it puts bitcoin as the great idea it is in the background. That's the risk i see. But i will hodl

[wachtwoord]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.
2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally.

I think I just got proxy trollfied.  Please ignore Jorge.  He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.

1. Don't forget the discounts! (which will be more and more widespread as the companies avoid the ridiculous credit card fees).
2. And reasons for 2? To keep the same investment level you had before. Note that not everyone needs to do this for my argument to hold (just some). The same is true for point 1

So I would have to pay 2x the price to buy something?... Why not just use fiat and skip that reinvestment step. I'm not seeing much a  killer argument for why anyone would use coinbase to buy stuff.

Let's say you are an investor and have 50 BTC. Then if you spend a Bitcoin to buy something with all the benefits of Bitcoin (discussed above) you replace your Bitcoin buy purchasing a fresh one with fiat so your investment level stays the same. If you think this means paying twice the purchasing price I suggest you start using that thing in your head (either by making a fresh cup of coffee or turning in and taking another look in the morning, depending on your timezone).

[seleme]

Jorge strikes me as an intelligent guy. Scare away noobs? Why would he waste his time on that. An accomplished CS professor investing time to scare noobs.. cmon.

1. He's in for the sport (trolling that is).
2. He's on a payroll
3. He's too insane to explain and we're to normal to understand.

Jorge is fucking idiot who still thinks Bitcoin will fail despite it going mainstream in front of his eyes on daily basis.

[ChancellorOnABrink]

. I'm not seeing much a  killer argument for why anyone would use coinbase to buy stuff.

Did you work for Bitpay ?

Cmon, It's about bringing "BTC" on virtualy all check-out option for a online paiement.
Just enjoy, this day will be in history !
It's a big step and everyone involved in bitcoin should be happy

[esse83]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.
2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally.

I think I just got proxy trollfied.  Please ignore Jorge.  He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.

1. Don't forget the discounts! (which will be more and more widespread as the companies avoid the ridiculous credit card fees).
2. And reasons for 2? To keep the same investment level you had before. Note that not everyone needs to do this for my argument to hold (just some). The same is true for point 1

So I would have to pay 2x the price to buy something?... Why not just use fiat and skip that reinvestment step. I'm not seeing much a  killer argument for why anyone would use coinbase to buy stuff.

Let's say you are an investor and have 50 BTC. Then if you spend a Bitcoin to buy something with all the benefits of Bitcoin (discussed above) you replace your Bitcoin buy purchasing a fresh one with fiat so your investment level stays the same. If you think this means paying twice the purchasing price I suggest you start using that thing in your head (either by making a fresh cup of coffee or turning in and taking another look in the morning, depending on your timezone).

I'm confused, I use 1 btc (that I bought at coinbase) to buy whatever, then I have to rebuy that 1 btc (at coinbase) to keep my investment level intact. So what did I misunderstand? Too late in the evening for coffee. Sounds like I have to use 2x the fiat amount to buy something I could have with 1x the fiat amount. Please correct me, and Im terribly sorry If Im wrong.

[molecular]

I'm confused.

Maybe this video where you can ear crystal clear bitcoin at least 20 times will fix that

What I don't quite understand from the video: does this enable their merchants to accept BTC via the blockchain or just coinbaseBTC from coinbase customers?

[Chuckee]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

Agree, because you can buy everything with fiat but with not Bitcoin.
Why they will take extra step of buying bitcoin then purchase item.

You obviously have no comprehension that countries tend to have different fiat currencies, whilst crypto has no borders.

And banks already perform conversion on your behalf. What's your point? I can use my US credit card to buy stuff in other countries, with zero exchange fee. And if my card number is somehow stolen -- which has never happened -- I can call the bank's fraud department and I'm not held accountable.

...

Did you just hear that sound? It's all the bitcoin-tards screaming out in terror as the last paragraph basically destroyed the myth of bitcoin's "advantage" over traditional payment models.

Some of you people seem to believe that one government issued currency can't be spent in another country. Are you really that dumb?

[grappa_barricata]

Maybe this video where you can ear crystal clear bitcoin at least 20 times will fix that

What I don't quite understand from the video: does this enable their merchants to accept BTC via the blockchain or just coinbaseBTC from coinbase customers?

I understand it is the latter, listening to the video. Not quite clear.

[wachtwoord]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.
2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally.

I think I just got proxy trollfied.  Please ignore Jorge.  He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.

1. Don't forget the discounts! (which will be more and more widespread as the companies avoid the ridiculous credit card fees).
2. And reasons for 2? To keep the same investment level you had before. Note that not everyone needs to do this for my argument to hold (just some). The same is true for point 1

So I would have to pay 2x the price to buy something?... Why not just use fiat and skip that reinvestment step. I'm not seeing much a  killer argument for why anyone would use coinbase to buy stuff.

Let's say you are an investor and have 50 BTC. Then if you spend a Bitcoin to buy something with all the benefits of Bitcoin (discussed above) you replace your Bitcoin buy purchasing a fresh one with fiat so your investment level stays the same. If you think this means paying twice the purchasing price I suggest you start using that thing in your head (either by making a fresh cup of coffee or turning in and taking another look in the morning, depending on your timezone).

I'm confused, I use 1 btc (that I bought at coinbase) to buy whatever, then I have to rebuy that 1 btc (at coinbase) to keep my investment level intact. So what did I misunderstand? Too late in the evening for coffee. Sounds like I have to use 2x the fiat amount to buy something I could have with 1x the fiat amount. Please correct me, and Im terribly sorry If Im wrong.

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

[brg444]

Forget the price for a moment.  Daily and weekly price movements are noise.  Everyone who cries about companies adopting btc because it puts pressure on the price needs to get a brain that thinks more than a week in advance.

The big picture is that the future of bitcoin is adoption and usage by more and more people.  Dell, Global Payments, PayPal, etc, are all steps forward in usage.  Remittance actually works in the Philippines, at a total cost of 2% (buying, transmitting, selling, dumping cash into bank account), and other countries will follow.  None of these will have a huge short term impact on price.  But they are necessary and huge successes in the long term, and should be priced in as major stepping stones forward.

The next step is store of value, taking on the tax haven money and gold bugs.  These will have a much larger effect on price, but require more stability in price.

If you only care about the price in 6 months, hate on PayPal adoption.  If you care about the price in 2 years, cheer for PayPal adoption.  More usage, more adoption, demands a higher market cap in the future.

I'm not hating on the PayPal adoption, i actually think it is a huge step forward. The product that PayPal is selling is their easy-to-use payment system. You can buy things internationally with one click and don't have to exchange money. PayPal takes care of it all. The thing that brought me to bitcoin is the economic principle behind it and in my opinion people will be able to use bitcoin just as another payment option. So they won't have to care about the idea behind it. While this widens the possible usage, it puts bitcoin as the great idea it is in the background. That's the risk i see. But i will hodl

Bitcoin is first and foremost money. Store of value first, then currency and eventually unit of account.

All this "payment system" and transactional utilities are bells and whistles. Merchant adoption is important but it is not what drives bitcoin.

In my opinion there is only a minority of people that care to use Bitcoin for daily transactions. Most people "hoard" it as a store of value and to speculate. This is what has driven the price of Bitcoin from 0 to now. And if the phenomenon continues on its exponential pace like it has for the past years, then we will be fine.

This is also why these news have no impact on the price. They bring awareness sure, but they don't bring in new "investors". I don't expect they should. Frankly, apart from a couple of minor use cases, there are little to no incentives to use Bitcoin as a currency vs. fiat as it is right now. And that's not a problem.

[Chuckee]

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.

Only in bitcoin land would you hear something like this...

• "Ease of use"

Right, because buying bitcoins from coinbase after providing all your bank information or meeting a stranger on the street to make a cash transaction is real easy (and safe). Not to mention storing them securely.

• "Fees"

Coinbase, localbitcoins, etc, all charge fees and mark ups. I have not been charged a bank fee of any type in ages.

• "Privacy"

Bitcoin is pseudo anonymous, at best.

• "Security"

you must be trolling us now

• "avoiding international restrictions"

are you buying nuclear weapons from Iran or something? what the hell.



tl;dr unless you like to come to bitcointalk and day dream with other like minded fools about easy riches, there is no practical reason to buy bitcoins.

[esse83]

1. There are people who don't have Bitcoin who will purchase them to purchase items
2. There are people who already own Bitcoin and use these for a purchase, who will (immediately) replace these coins by exchanging fiat.

1. Why would they use fiat to buy btc which will then be sold for fiat? Why not just skip the middle part.
2. Maybe? Maybe not..

1. Ease of use, fees, privacy, security, avoiding international restrictions, crossing jurisdictions, avoiding fiat exchange rates when purchasing from overseas, etc. etc.
2. Definitely, categorically and unequivocally.

I think I just got proxy trollfied.  Please ignore Jorge.  He's only here to waste people's time and to try to scare away noobs.

1. Don't forget the discounts! (which will be more and more widespread as the companies avoid the ridiculous credit card fees).
2. And reasons for 2? To keep the same investment level you had before. Note that not everyone needs to do this for my argument to hold (just some). The same is true for point 1

So I would have to pay 2x the price to buy something?... Why not just use fiat and skip that reinvestment step. I'm not seeing much a  killer argument for why anyone would use coinbase to buy stuff.

Let's say you are an investor and have 50 BTC. Then if you spend a Bitcoin to buy something with all the benefits of Bitcoin (discussed above) you replace your Bitcoin buy purchasing a fresh one with fiat so your investment level stays the same. If you think this means paying twice the purchasing price I suggest you start using that thing in your head (either by making a fresh cup of coffee or turning in and taking another look in the morning, depending on your timezone).

I'm confused, I use 1 btc (that I bought at coinbase) to buy whatever, then I have to rebuy that 1 btc (at coinbase) to keep my investment level intact. So what did I misunderstand? Too late in the evening for coffee. Sounds like I have to use 2x the fiat amount to buy something I could have with 1x the fiat amount. Please correct me, and Im terribly sorry If Im wrong.

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

But what about consumers who are not investors and just want to use coinbase to buy something? Would they be better off from a one time purchase using bitcoin in that case. I guess that is my question. If the threshold for consumers (to get an advantage) is to become investors of a large amount of bitcoin, well it seems a bit harsh, no?

[adamstgBit]

Normally i'm a silent reader but the price swings lately - especially today - made me register for an account.
Are we really going to "da moon" because of today's news? I have been holding coins for the last two months so i would sure hope for a bit of an upswing.
Clearly PayPal is a huge payment processor and them using bitcoins is another big advertisement for bitcoin.
I'm just not sure if braintree/paypal will just act as a gateway to coinbase or what their plan is.
My understanding is that people will be abled to use their paypal account for payments in another "foreign currency", the XBT/BTC/COIN.
In that case people won't have to learn how bitcoin works. In my opinion, bitcoin will go further into the background.
PayPal will buy new coins each time someone buys a product and quickly after that the merchant will dump these coins again.
People won't need to buy coins on their own and fear a fluctuating exchange rate.
While i see the huge advantage for the non-techies, i don't think it will have a huge impact on the price.
Please share your views on this, i'm interested in your opinions.

Honestly, the details are still fuzzy. The assumption that they are just going to do something like 'BitPay' is not far-fetched, nor is the one that they add BTC as a new currency. But the more i dig into this the more the former seems more probable. In my opinion, the latter would be the real deal in terms of positive price effect. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happen.

as an inhabitant of the wonderful bitcoin country, i am glad to be able to spend my currency at more and more places, even if they just turn around and dump it back on to our markets.

just say'n

bitcoin is a tourist trap.

[brg444]

1. No one time. You have 50 BTC invested.
2. You take 1 BTC of your invested stack and buy whatever product you want
3. The you rebuy 1 BTC with fiat

So you only spend 1 times the fiat cost of the item you bought (although probably less due to all the benefits of Bitcoin)

Hmmm I'm sorry but how does this not entail spending 2x the amount of money, fiat or BTC.

[Sandia]

Looking at Bfx only:  it looks like the only thing keeping the price down is the constant increase in shorts.  Shorts have increased by 4k over the past week (currently 10.2k).  It is also 4k coins to 500.  The last 3 dumps came at the same time as sharp increases in shorts.

As I said in an earlier post, there are not 10k coins available to buy on Bfx.  This may get interesting fast, especially if Bfx can decouple from the wall-fest at Bitstamp for a few hours.

[adamstgBit]

Looking at Bfx only:  it looks like the only thing keeping the price down is the constant increase in shorts.  Shorts have increased by 4k over the past week (currently 10.2k).  It is also 4k coins to 500.  The last 3 dumps came at the same time as sharp increases in shorts.

As I said in an earlier post, there are not 10k coins available to buy on Bfx.  This may get interesting fast, especially if Bfx can decouple from the wall-fest at Bitstamp for a few hours.

don't think for a second that "Bfx can decouple from the wall-fest at Bitstamp" they are both very well connected...

in any case the squeeze will be enjoyable. that is, IF we don't let them unwind slowly at the bottom....


EVERYONE MUST HODL!