Bitcoin needs to evolve - we need p2p exchanges

[gollum]

Satoshi called bitcoin "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" which is true but right now bitcoin is mostly used for speculation in the price of Bitcoin vs Fiat currencies.
Bitcoin has a dilemma - its hard to be both a currency and a payment system when the price of bitcoin is so volatile. If I want to send a friend 100$ via bitcoin the value of the sent bitcoins might have changed from 100$ to 150$ or to 50$ during the time the blockchain is confirmed.

Satoshi: "What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust,
allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted
third party."

Satoshi is technically correct in saying that we don't need a third party in the transactions, but in real life he is wrong, we need third parties absorbing the currency risk so they can promise me and my friend that 100$ sent is 100$ received. What the third parties needs in order to operate is trustworthy and stable exchanges between bitcoin and fiat so they can hedge transactions. When many parties hedge their positions the result will be a more stable price of BTC/USD which actually makes the need of such third parties less important in the future.

I believe the purpose of bitcoin is much greater than just the speculation between fiat and bitcoin, the purpose should be to actually abandon fiat in the long term but to do so we need to enable markets where liquidity is created and where everyone is able to hedge risks. Therefore we as a community need to come with ideas on how to create a free, stable and secure p2p bitcoin exchange between bitcoin and fiat where everyone can buy, sell and hedge bitcoins. The exchange system created could also be used for other kinds of exchanges, such as bartering, which would reduce the need of fiat currency conversions.

References
[1] S. Nakamoto "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System", http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf, 2009.

[Anonymouss]

Something needs to be done about the MtGox monopoly!

If we don't decentralize we defeat the purpose of BTC!

Why must we learn the hard way...

[gollum]

Something needs to be done about the MtGox monopoly!

If we don't decentralize we defeat the purpose of BTC!

Why must we learn the hard way...

Satoshi wanted to create a system where we don't need to rely on a to-big-to-fail bank.
But right now it is the exact opposite - Mt-Gox is to-big-to-fail!

[InspiredEye]

This might not be exactly what you're looking for but....

Have you seen Buttercoin?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7v6z/buttercoin_open_source_highperformance_bitcoin/

[gollum]

This might not be exactly what you're looking for but....

Have you seen Buttercoin?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7v6z/buttercoin_open_source_highperformance_bitcoin/

Buttercoin is a good initiative, but the community needs to create a template for the whole bitcoin economy where we take everything in consideration and an open source exchange is an important part of it. And I think we need several independent exchange solutions so we dont have any single point of failure. We need several parallell exchanges, running on different kind of platforms.

[ChristianK]

Therefore we as a community need to come with ideas on how to create a free, stable and secure p2p bitcoin exchange between bitcoin and fiat where everyone can buy, sell and hedge bitcoins.

Seriously? Why do things have to be free? There money to be made in providing a better exchange and over time a better exchange will pop up.

[gollum]

Therefore we as a community need to come with ideas on how to create a free, stable and secure p2p bitcoin exchange between bitcoin and fiat where everyone can buy, sell and hedge bitcoins.

Seriously? Why do things have to be free? There money to be made in providing a better exchange and over time a better exchange will pop up.

With free I mean open source. The exchanges needs of course to get paid for their service.

[Mike Christ]

Buttercoin seems neat but A.) confused me because I thought it was an altcoin and B.) will do no good if people are still using the Gox (like they are right now.  You know who you are.)

[Gabi]

Why english has the same word for free beer and free spech? 

[Mike Christ]

Why english has the same word for free beer and free spech? 

Anyone who thought there, their, and they're was a good idea needs to be shot

And if you think that's bad, check this out: The definitions of "run".

[btctrack]

one of the problems with p2p exchanges is the part where fiat is involved = bank accounts that need to hold the money of the traders. another problem is the complexity of building and testing such systems.
imho the solution will come when the forex guys decide to enter the market. they have all the legal paperwork of handling people money and have proven forex trading systems that can probably be modified easily for bitcoin trading. not to mention they have all their users that they can easily convert into bitcoin trading.

[glendall]

Everybody who reads this thread should be trying to do their part and use an alternative to mtgox.

Totally agree with the need for less monopoly by mt.gox, even with or without their history of troubles.

I'm still thinking a really good new exchange will likely open in the next 6 months as well... For the person with the right resources and know how, there is an incredible profit making venture just waiting to be setup.

[pinger]

The hard part is how to solve the no banks accounts problem if you want to buy BTC or sell.

[phantomcircuit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty_risk#Counterparty_risk

[Mike Christ]

The hard part is how to solve the no banks accounts problem if you want to buy BTC or sell.

That's pretty  much the only problem right now.

[pinger]

The hard part is how to solve the no banks accounts problem if you want to buy BTC or sell.

That's pretty  much the only problem right now.

And how about buying some legal and easy to buy digital currency? Lets say something like Itunes gift cards or something like that, so you can buy on any store, not as easy to extract the money. Not a perfect solution, but we can check for something like this? Maybe UKash codes?

http://www.ukash.com

[gollum]

The hard part is how to solve the no banks accounts problem if you want to buy BTC or sell.

We are discussing this problem in this thread: how to get fiat into the bitcoin-economy and how to trade fiat vs bitcoin in exchanges.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=172705

What we need is more companies like BitInstant located in different countries, accepting different currencies.
And to create real exchanges that contains several brokers we need IOUs, for example BitInstant-Dollar-IOUs.
It is possible to create this kind of contracts with the bitcoin protocol https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts

[Luckybit]

Satoshi called bitcoin "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" which is true but right now bitcoin is mostly used for speculation in the price of Bitcoin vs Fiat currencies.
Bitcoin has a dilemma - its hard to be both a currency and a payment system when the price of bitcoin is so volatile. If I want to send a friend 100$ via bitcoin the value of the sent bitcoins might have changed from 100$ to 150$ or to 50$ during the time the blockchain is confirmed.

Satoshi: "What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust,
allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted
third party."

Satoshi is technically correct in saying that we don't need a third party in the transactions, but in real life he is wrong, we need third parties absorbing the currency risk so they can promise me and my friend that 100$ sent is 100$ received. What the third parties needs in order to operate is trustworthy and stable exchanges between bitcoin and fiat so they can hedge transactions. When many parties hedge their positions the result will be a more stable price of BTC/USD which actually makes the need of such third parties less important in the future.

I believe the purpose of bitcoin is much greater than just the speculation between fiat and bitcoin, the purpose should be to actually abandon fiat in the long term but to do so we need to enable markets where liquidity is created and where everyone is able to hedge risks. Therefore we as a community need to come with ideas on how to create a free, stable and secure p2p bitcoin exchange between bitcoin and fiat where everyone can buy, sell and hedge bitcoins. The exchange system created could also be used for other kinds of exchanges, such as bartering, which would reduce the need of fiat currency conversions.

References
[1] S. Nakamoto "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System", http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf, 2009.

It needs to be a complete full spectrum virtual value exchange. Emphasis on VIRTUAL VALUE. This way people can trade virtual value items of all sorts for virtual value items of all sorts. This means WoW items exchanged for Bitcoins would be fair as well.

[xenigma]

I'm amused by the calls for a p2p exchange. One has been developed in its entirety and is under GNU if I recall correctly.

fixagora.


http://sourceforge.net/projects/fixagora/


ATM it is a functional proof of concept, but it only needs to be adapted to BTC, rather than built from the ground up.

[franky1]

the reason everyone is acting like sheep valuing bitcoin based on the mtgox price is because no one knows what to base a bitcoin price on if MTGox wasnt around.

me personally..

i want £50 a day (average days minimum wage after taxes in the UK) ($75). so whatever bitcoins an average miner would make in a day is what i would call a fair daily income/valuation.

base it off the proof of work EG the mining costs. (edit: im not a miner, but i think using the mining costs is a fair starting point)

so if an average miner can only get 0.3BTC a day then that puts bitcoin at £150 ($225) per coin. and as difficulty increases and the daily coin production decreases, obviously the per coin price will rise to ensure miners get a fair daily income.

not based on rampant speculation that is tied to nothing but panic and profiteering.

so when i trade with someone in another country using just the clients.. if everyone based the bitcoin price on a average daily production vs average daily minimum wage of their country. then it would create a stable price valuation