Yup, still feeling bearish.

[humanitee]

I guess I'm the only one using Bitcoin as a store of value.

Oh well, more for me.

[ElectricMucus]

I guess I'm the only one using Bitcoin as a store of value.

Oh well, more for me.

No you are speculating on a higher price. That's what all the "store of value" types do.

[Manticore]

....and businesses are using Bitcoin adoption for their own advertising purposes. It's a good press release for them as well regardless of how much business they receive from the adoption. It's great for the first two or three sites in any given niche. I doubt the fifth or sixth dating site will release anything.

It will be nice to get past the headline bubbles and focus on fundamentals. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon. The next big headlines will likely be exchange related.

I guess I'm the only one using Bitcoin as a store of value.

Oh well, more for me.

As a store of temporary transactional value or as a store of long-term investment value?? No, I think everyone is using this as a store of investment value, investment value that is highly dependent on headlines. As a store of temporary transactional value (simply to make purchases), we would have a very different valuation.

[humanitee]

Regardless of what you guys think, it's worked out well for me.

Much better than holding dollars would have. The volatility doesn't scare me, it is a growing pain.

[johnyj]

Post bubble one is the situation that most of the people thought bitcoin is a scam and it will die, but it didn't. This time the people already know it won't die and everyone is waiting to buy at low, and that typically won't happen

[ElectricMucus]

Regardless of what you guys think, it's worked out well for me.

Much better than holding dollars would have. The volatility doesn't scare me, it is a growing pain.

This simply isn't true.
I remember that was the word when we were at the low single digits: If it only goes to triple digits it will be much more stable.

[humanitee]

Regardless of what you guys think, it's worked out well for me.

Much better than holding dollars would have. The volatility doesn't scare me, it is a growing pain.

This simply isn't true.
I remember that was the word when we were at the low single digits: If it only goes to triple digits it will be much more stable.

I didn't imply it would ever be stable. I just recognize that it is meant to deflate, and that's where I want my savings. It will deflate as long as enough people see it as a store of value, and hey, I'm one of those people. This can happen irregardless of available services, which somehow you and others neglect.

Furthermore, I do not believe that the market would have crashed so far if Gox wasn't a piece of shit. People market sold at $220 and didn't actually get out until $120. I doubt they intended to trade in that manner.

[Manticore]

Regardless of what you guys think, it's worked out well for me.

Much better than holding dollars would have. The volatility doesn't scare me, it is a growing pain.

Of course it has worked. It has gone up in value. If making money is the goal, one can make the most money when pricing action is completely divorced from fundamentals.

I'm not concerned with a restatement of the obvious. The people who held because 'this is working' got burned a week ago. I was one of the lone people on this forum warning of an impending explosion. So, I guess that worked for me.

I'm interested in how long this can be divorced from fundamentals. We will likely have another news hype cycle coming. I simply wonder at what point the news cycles will have diminishing returns. Once we have major adoption by businesses and everyone is sitting on their bitcoins, 'storing value', while businesses are not really transacting very much, then what happens?

Even with major support at the exchange level, I have a feeling the public and most analysts would still look at this with extreme skepticism despite the fact that the headline would push it higher. And even with new exchanges and infrastructure, I do not see a major buy-in by the public anytime soon because they are skeptical of the investment 'store of value' just as they are skeptical of financiers and bankers. So they would be highly skeptical of that combination although it would make for a wonderful headline.

If Bitcoin is designed to rise to eternity, it will be quite some time until people actually start using it to do business in a meaningful way. Pricing is destined to be completely divorced from fundamentals until it fully fails or succeeds.

[Manticore]

Post bubble one is the situation that most of the people thought bitcoin is a scam and it will die, but it didn't. This time the people already know it won't die and everyone is waiting to buy at low, and that typically won't happen

No, not a scam. They simply woke up to the fact that it was bizarrely overvalued due to market action of a classic bubble.

[humanitee]

Regardless of what you guys think, it's worked out well for me.

Much better than holding dollars would have. The volatility doesn't scare me, it is a growing pain.

Of course it has worked. It has gone up in value. If making money is the goal, one can make the most money when pricing action is completely divorced from fundamentals.

I'm not concerned with a restatement of the obvious. The people who held because 'this is working' got burned a week ago. I was one of the lone people on this forum warning of an impending explosion. So, I guess that worked for me.

I'm interested in how long this can be divorced from fundamentals. We will likely have another news hype cycle coming. I simply wonder at what point the news cycles will have diminishing returns. Once we have major adoption by businesses and everyone is sitting on their bitcoins, 'storing value', while businesses are not really transacting very much, then what happens?

Even with major support at the exchange level, I have a feeling the public and most analysts would still look at this with extreme skepticism despite the fact that the headline would push it higher. And even with new exchanges and infrastructure, I do not see a major buy-in by the public anytime soon because they are skeptical of the investment 'store of value' just as they are skeptical of financiers and bankers. So they would be highly skeptical of that combination although it would make for a wonderful headline.

If Bitcoin is designed to rise to eternity, it will be quite some time until people actually start using it to do business in a meaningful way. Pricing is destined to be completely divorced from fundamentals until it fully fails or succeeds.

I don't care what ignorant pundits think of Bitcoin.

There is not a "divorce" from fundamentals. I can buy cars, houses, and other high cost goods with it, do you expect it to be worth 1 dollar?
I'm not trying to hype this thing up, I actually called it going down right before it did. It was obviously overextended.

Making money is not the goal, PROTECTING MY MONEY is. You might think I'm crazy, and that's ok. Hopefully there are more crazies out there, buying coins from the speculators. I got a bank account on my computer worth more than my bank account down the street.

I'm going to continue to buy as the price goes up.

[ElectricMucus]

I'm going to continue to buy as the price goes up.

And what will you do if it doesn't?

[humanitee]

I'm going to continue to buy as the price goes up.

And what will you do if it doesn't?

I will still buy.

[ElectricMucus]

I'm going to continue to buy as the price goes up.

And what will you do if it doesn't?

I will still buy.

Even if it goes down for a year? two years? a decade?

[humanitee]

I'm going to continue to buy as the price goes up.

And what will you do if it doesn't?

I will still buy.

Why?

Because that means the price is low and it's the most opportune time to buy. I'm not saying I would have bought above $200, I use my brain (sometimes).
The fundamentals look stronger to me than they have in the past, and much stronger to me than they do to you. That is most likely the cause of discrepancy.

[ElectricMucus]

I'm going to continue to buy as the price goes up.

And what will you do if it doesn't?

I will still buy.

Why?

Because that means the price is low and it's the most opportune time to buy. I'm not saying I would have bought above $200, I use my brain (sometimes).
The fundamentals look stronger to me than they have in the past, and much stronger to me than they do to you. That is most likely the cause of discrepancy.

Ok lets say we go down from here 1% a day for a year. You bought all the way down prices are now 2.6 dollar, at which point do you stop?

[evolve]

You say that you are using it for a store of value, but you also say you would continue sinking money into it even if the price declined for a decade or more without sign of recovery?

That doesn't make sense. At all.

[dave111223]

Ok lets say we go down from here 1% a day for a year. You bought all the way down prices are now 2.6 dollar, at which point do you stop?

He wouldn't really need to stop as, by your calculations, after a few years he would be able to own all the bitcoins in the world for almost nothing.

[alexh]

Hopefully some bubble action again, but probably not

[Manticore]

I don't care what ignorant pundits think of Bitcoin.

There is not a "divorce" from fundamentals. I can buy cars, houses, and other high cost goods with it, do you expect it to be worth 1 dollar?
I'm not trying to hype this thing up, I actually called it going down right before it did. It was obviously overextended.

Making money is not the goal, PROTECTING MY MONEY is. You might think I'm crazy, and that's ok. Hopefully there are more crazies out there, buying coins from the speculators. I got a bank account on my computer worth more than my bank account down the street.

I'm going to continue to buy as the price goes up.

News flash, I hold bitcoins. I can hold bitcoins and not be delusional.

I don't think you're crazy, but you don't put forth any kind of argument other than 'I am protecting my money' and 'I can buy cars and houses with bitcoin.' You think it's going up because that's what it does. Fair enough.

I am medium-term bullish on bitcoin but do think it's grossly overvalued.....and do think it may rise and continue to be overvalued despite fact that it should trend lower. I am willing to profit on this over-valuation, but I am not willing to become irrational because of it.

In this religion, however, I suppose it is heretical to make those kinds of statements.

And before one calls others ignorant, one may want to stop using words that don't exist (irregardless). Just a thought.

EDIT: I actually don't see it rising much anytime soon. I still think we could retrace.

[warpio]

Regardless of what you guys think, it's worked out well for me.

Much better than holding dollars would have. The volatility doesn't scare me, it is a growing pain.

Of course it has worked. It has gone up in value. If making money is the goal, one can make the most money when pricing action is completely divorced from fundamentals.

I'm not concerned with a restatement of the obvious. The people who held because 'this is working' got burned a week ago. I was one of the lone people on this forum warning of an impending explosion. So, I guess that worked for me.

I'm interested in how long this can be divorced from fundamentals. We will likely have another news hype cycle coming. I simply wonder at what point the news cycles will have diminishing returns. Once we have major adoption by businesses and everyone is sitting on their bitcoins, 'storing value', while businesses are not really transacting very much, then what happens?

Even with major support at the exchange level, I have a feeling the public and most analysts would still look at this with extreme skepticism despite the fact that the headline would push it higher. And even with new exchanges and infrastructure, I do not see a major buy-in by the public anytime soon because they are skeptical of the investment 'store of value' just as they are skeptical of financiers and bankers. So they would be highly skeptical of that combination although it would make for a wonderful headline.

If Bitcoin is designed to rise to eternity, it will be quite some time until people actually start using it to do business in a meaningful way. Pricing is destined to be completely divorced from fundamentals until it fully fails or succeeds.

I think the confusion here comes the fact that in order to use bitcoin, you have to invest in it. People invest in bitcoins for very different reasons... Some people use it as their savings account, while others merely use it as an online debit or shopping card. Either way, the volatility forces people who use bitcoin to speculate on its value, influencing their purchase decisions... This can only be fixed by building a bigger bitcoin economy, making it so that bitcoins are able to be traded for more things other than dollars, making it no longer tied solely to the dollar value... But you can't build a bitcoin economy without investing in and using bitcoin... Therefore, it's kind of hard to separate "speculators" from "bitcoin users" at this stage.