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Author Topic: Incentivized Nodes  (Read 1640 times)
Blockchain Mechanic
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February 15, 2017, 06:02:32 PM
 #1

I have recently managed to get a single bitcoin based coin to synchronize 3 blockchains, namely Bitcoin, Litecoin and my own token. The purpose of having these chains was for data but i just realized that i can add something else, ie small payments in my own token to users who run full nodes , effectively incentivizing running a Bitcoin and litecoin node.

One thing i have heard before is that there is no way of verifying if a node is truly a full node. Is this true, or are there ways of ensuring that nodes truly are full nodes ? Is there even need/demand for this anymore ?

Equality vs Equity...
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February 16, 2017, 10:47:07 PM
 #2

It's true. It's easy to spoof a node.

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February 20, 2017, 02:44:16 AM
 #3

I'm running a full node.
I notice when the syncing process begins it's fast. Maybe because there was less transactions, bitcoins and etc...?
And the last years are the ones that take the most time.
So that implies that they also take more storage?

Now I have 200GB available for that and I'm using compression. And I'm trying to find a way to make it better.
But it will be a matter of time until needing more storage capacity.
If I see advantages of keeping the node running. I even may buy a disk only for it.
It will be nice to have any incentive on this.
https://bitnodes.21.co/#join-the-network
I'm seeing 6016 nodes online.

Making a comparison to torrents. Some torrents have more seeds that full nodes running.
And there are some big torrents out there. Bigger then the blockchain at moment.

But why to keep all the blockchain?
Blockchain is using 111GB on my disk. I cloud use purne mode and use only 550MB of storage.
So much stuff you can keep on 111GB.
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February 20, 2017, 02:07:38 PM
 #4

But if you run your full-node with pruning it won't be a real full-node anymore

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Blockchain Mechanic
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February 20, 2017, 04:05:06 PM
 #5

If i can figure out a way, i will incentivize users who run my wallet as a full node.

Equality vs Equity...
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February 20, 2017, 04:13:54 PM
 #6

If i can figure out a way, i will incentivize users who run my wallet as a full node.

The problem with the full nodes is the disc space consumption, so even if you make people to run more nodes, they will only use pruned nodes, unless we find a webhost who offers cheap 300gb package. But it would be nice to have several blockchains starting from same application.
Had you been able to test the system in a CLI environment ? or only using GUI ?


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February 20, 2017, 05:00:14 PM
 #7

I'm running in prune mode only in my laptop.
I have a full node in another computer but the storage capacity that I have available it's 200G.
But having a full node is still the fastest way to switch between wallets.

On my laptop I can't store the full node. And syncing takes too most time. Lucky I don't have traffic limits.
Yesterday, on my laptop with prune mode enabled and after creating a wallet offline I tried to sync and had to quit. Because I use my laptop to work and I need to use it on Monday morning.
Bitcoin-qt was running all day long and wasn't enough.

I'm thinking in a method to switch wallets fast on my laptop.
I didn't tested yet.
I hope to do it anytime soon.

Anyone with a full node can post the actual size of the full blockchain?
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February 20, 2017, 05:01:24 PM
 #8

If i can figure out a way, i will incentivize users who run my wallet as a full node.

The problem with the full nodes is the disc space consumption, so even if you make people to run more nodes, they will only use pruned nodes, unless we find a webhost who offers cheap 300gb package. But it would be nice to have several blockchains starting from same application.
Had you been able to test the system in a CLI environment ? or only using GUI ?

I was running tests earlier today in a cli env, both SPV and full blocks mode seem to be syncing properly. Current work is resolving the wallet so it can display balances of all three coins.

Equality vs Equity...
nemgun
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February 20, 2017, 05:06:22 PM
 #9

If i can figure out a way, i will incentivize users who run my wallet as a full node.

The problem with the full nodes is the disc space consumption, so even if you make people to run more nodes, they will only use pruned nodes, unless we find a webhost who offers cheap 300gb package. But it would be nice to have several blockchains starting from same application.
Had you been able to test the system in a CLI environment ? or only using GUI ?

I was running tests earlier today in a cli env, both SPV and full blocks mode seem to be syncing properly. Current work is resolving the wallet so it can display balances of all three coins.

Interesting, so you can actually reward people with you coin for running full nodes, or maybe pruned nodes with a minimum amount of blocks, but i think it will require a heavy premine, or a system like nexus who manages a reserve used for rewards. There are many possibilities to reward people, but i think that you had a great idea there, it will for sure help to solve the lack of nodes issue.
But how do you think you could actually rewrd people ?


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Blockchain Mechanic
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February 20, 2017, 08:17:53 PM
 #10

If i can figure out a way, i will incentivize users who run my wallet as a full node.

The problem with the full nodes is the disc space consumption, so even if you make people to run more nodes, they will only use pruned nodes, unless we find a webhost who offers cheap 300gb package. But it would be nice to have several blockchains starting from same application.
Had you been able to test the system in a CLI environment ? or only using GUI ?

I was running tests earlier today in a cli env, both SPV and full blocks mode seem to be syncing properly. Current work is resolving the wallet so it can display balances of all three coins.

Interesting, so you can actually reward people with you coin for running full nodes, or maybe pruned nodes with a minimum amount of blocks, but i think it will require a heavy premine, or a system like nexus who manages a reserve used for rewards. There are many possibilities to reward people, but i think that you had a great idea there, it will for sure help to solve the lack of nodes issue.
But how do you think you could actually rewrd people ?

The issue now is how to prevent spoofing. Rewards would be time-locked transactions , to encourage users to keep the node online.

Equality vs Equity...
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February 20, 2017, 08:23:40 PM
 #11

there are several problems here:
1.how to determine if it is a real node  1b. is it a full node or not?
2.how to make sure the owners are getting paid if they run one? automatic payouts (possible abuse) ,manual payouts after some checks
3.how to make sure your tokens keep value (are they being traded anywhere,how can you exchange them to bitcoins?)
4.how to inform  potential node owners/already existing owners about your bounty  etc.


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February 20, 2017, 08:44:52 PM
 #12

How this works

https://bitnodes.21.co/#join-the-network

??

If I had a domain because I have a dynamic ip address. And registered my node on some website that was keeping tracking of the nodes.
It was possible to that site query any data from my node to see if it's real? If it's a full node or not?
And check the time it was running?
If any of this was possible the payout will be, time online and eventually size of node, related.
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February 20, 2017, 09:25:26 PM
 #13

there are several problems here:
1.how to determine if it is a real node  1b. is it a full node or not?
2.how to make sure the owners are getting paid if they run one? automatic payouts (possible abuse) ,manual payouts after some checks
3.how to make sure your tokens keep value (are they being traded anywhere,how can you exchange them to bitcoins?)
4.how to inform  potential node owners/already existing owners about your bounty  etc.



Thus far i am still looking for a solution.

Equality vs Equity...
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February 21, 2017, 01:49:10 PM
 #14

there are several problems here:
1.how to determine if it is a real node  1b. is it a full node or not?
2.how to make sure the owners are getting paid if they run one? automatic payouts (possible abuse) ,manual payouts after some checks
3.how to make sure your tokens keep value (are they being traded anywhere,how can you exchange them to bitcoins?)
4.how to inform  potential node owners/already existing owners about your bounty  etc.



Thus far i am still looking for a solution.

Maybe i can help with some ideas :

1- This can be solved by attributing some special values to a full node, pruned node, spv node etc, maybe adding a detector in the daemon will solve this. i think about a solution like shadow cash did.
2- I would go for automatic payouts, with conditions, like time-locked transactions.
3- This will comme in time, maybe it would be good add a logic to the AI to reward based on a %value, something like that.
4- This is the most easy step, send some PMs to Arch, Hilariousandco, Lauda, gmaxell and others like LukeJr, they will be happy to know this.


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February 22, 2017, 01:09:37 AM
 #15

There is a pretty high demand at the moment for the network as people aren't really running full nodes anymore based on the simple fact that the network has so many transactions and you have to download the entire 100gb block-chain in order to do this. It's something that even if you believe in the bitcoin cause is kind of annoying to do these days.

The only way for people to want to do it, or feel any need to at least is for some sort of pay to be given or a percentage of the fees to be given to the people that use their own resources to make sure that these nodes are up and the bitcoin network is as secure as we all hope it is.

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nemgun
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February 22, 2017, 11:00:35 AM
 #16

There is a pretty high demand at the moment for the network as people aren't really running full nodes anymore based on the simple fact that the network has so many transactions and you have to download the entire 100gb block-chain in order to do this. It's something that even if you believe in the bitcoin cause is kind of annoying to do these days.

The only way for people to want to do it, or feel any need to at least is for some sort of pay to be given or a percentage of the fees to be given to the people that use their own resources to make sure that these nodes are up and the bitcoin network is as secure as we all hope it is.

Maybe you can find some great ideas in the mastornode protocole, as you must invest some coins to be able to run it and get in return a reward based on the transactions you validated, it could give something interesting. You can't reward people for running a full node, they can take the reward and then delet the blockchain. So it must be done on the long run, i think this is why masternodes had been made.


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freedomno1
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March 03, 2017, 02:19:53 PM
 #17

I wouldn't mind seeing a fork that promotes an incentive for Bitcoin nodes to remain in operation on the network, since this topic is related were any proposals ever mentioned that involve that type of fork.
That said the way you mentioned OP would probably be better done internally through a hard-fork mechanism as people have already mentioned spoofing a node is easy enough.

There is a pretty high demand at the moment for the network as people aren't really running full nodes anymore based on the simple fact that the network has so many transactions and you have to download the entire 100gb block-chain in order to do this. It's something that even if you believe in the bitcoin cause is kind of annoying to do these days.

The only way for people to want to do it, or feel any need to at least is for some sort of pay to be given or a percentage of the fees to be given to the people that use their own resources to make sure that these nodes are up and the bitcoin network is as secure as we all hope it is.

I still have a full node but to send the most recent transactions it takes a really long time to load the confirmations so I prefer to leave it offline but your right it takes to much resources to really run nowadays.

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