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Author Topic: Sunt bitcoinii bani adevarati?  (Read 87805 times)
vladnistor
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August 19, 2015, 01:34:49 PM
 #121

EU Advocate General seems to think so:

Wire: Bloomberg BNA (BNA) Date: Jul 18 2015  3:03:02
EU Advocate General Defines Bitcoin as VAT-Exempt Currency

 
By Marcus Hoy
     Key Development: CJEU advocate general issues opinion saying
bitcoin should be treated as VAT-exempt currency.
     What's Next: CJEU to issue decision.
     July 17 (BNA) -- Bitcoin will be used more often for trade
and investment if the Court of Justice of the European Union
confirms an advocate general opinion categorizing bitcoin as a
currency because transactions will be exempt from value-added
tax, David Hedqvist, owner of the trading platform Bitcoin.se,
said.
     In a July 16 reasoned opinion, AG Juliane Kokott said
digital currencies, such as bitcoin, should be considered a
currency rather than property or other financial instruments, and
therefore shouldn't be subject to VAT in line with the exemption
provided for currency transactions under the EU's VAT Directive
(2006/112/EC).
     For VAT purposes, bitcoin is more akin to other recognized
currencies, Kokott said.
     Hedqvist welcomed the AG's opinion in a July 17 statement as
it lends support to the case he is currently arguing before the
Swedish Supreme Administrative Court.
     The case, Skatteverket v. David Hedqvist (C-264/14), was
brought by the Swedish tax authority to determine whether
Hedqvist should be charged VAT on transactions involving
bitcoins.

Restul: http://pastebin.com/2UcgG6W6

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kenbytes
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August 19, 2015, 01:49:59 PM
 #122

in adevaratul sens al cuvantului nu sunt bani adevarati sunt bani virtuali dar pot fi folositi ca si banii adevarati la fel cum folosesti un card...practic nu folosesti bani adevarati Smiley)

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August 19, 2015, 02:00:59 PM
 #123

Bitcoin din pacate nu e good store of value, care e primordial ca utilizatorii sa aiba incredere in ea. Dece toata lumea fuge pe timp de criza la 2-3 monende la nivel global? Pentru ca iti mentin puterea de cumparare. Bitcoin nu face asta, si de aceea adoptia este unde este. Ieri puteam cumpara mult mai multe >>>insert item here<<< decat azi.

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October 14, 2015, 09:54:18 AM
 #124

in adevaratul sens al cuvantului nu sunt bani adevarati sunt bani virtuali dar pot fi folositi ca si banii adevarati la fel cum folosesti un card...practic nu folosesti bani adevarati Smiley)
normal ca sunt bani "adevarati" cei de pe card..probabil ai vrut sa spui ca nu sunt fizici ..

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valiz
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October 14, 2015, 01:33:23 PM
 #125

in adevaratul sens al cuvantului nu sunt bani adevarati sunt bani virtuali dar pot fi folositi ca si banii adevarati la fel cum folosesti un card...practic nu folosesti bani adevarati Smiley)
normal ca sunt bani "adevarati" cei de pe card..probabil ai vrut sa spui ca nu sunt fizici ..
Cei de pe card sunt o datorie a unei banci comerciale catre tine. Dar din moment ce nu sunt falsi, poti sa zici ca sunt adevarati  Lips sealed . La fel si bitcoinii care nu sunt falsi, poti sa zici ca sunt adevarati  Undecided

Tot la intrebarea "ce inseamna bani?" ajungem.

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October 14, 2015, 02:03:16 PM
 #126

 Eu nu zic SUA e mare cacat, o sa se prabuseasca toata Tara (eu cred in Sept 14, 2015) si toti Românii de aici o sa fuga acolo.
Dar din experienta mea sunt correct destul de des. Cu ETF sunt cam 100% sigur dar totusi as putea sa fiu gresit.  Cu alte tari sa mearga pe Bitcoin sau alt crypto coin, asta este Mai greu de zis cu siguranta dar ma simt 80% sigur ca o sa se intample in 12-24 luni.

Ia uitati ce am gasit!  Cheesy

Pe vremea aia ziceau multi ca bitcoinii sunt prostii, uite ca inca merg bine. Daca nu sunt bani, atunci ce sunt?

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vladnistor
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October 20, 2015, 01:57:53 PM
 #127

 Eu nu zic SUA e mare cacat, o sa se prabuseasca toata Tara (eu cred in Sept 14, 2015) si toti Românii de aici o sa fuga acolo.
Dar din experienta mea sunt correct destul de des. Cu ETF sunt cam 100% sigur dar totusi as putea sa fiu gresit.  Cu alte tari sa mearga pe Bitcoin sau alt crypto coin, asta este Mai greu de zis cu siguranta dar ma simt 80% sigur ca o sa se intample in 12-24 luni.

Ia uitati ce am gasit!  Cheesy

Pe vremea aia ziceau multi ca bitcoinii sunt prostii, uite ca inca merg bine. Daca nu sunt bani, atunci ce sunt?


Poate aflam joi de la European Court of Justice.

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vladnistor
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October 22, 2015, 01:07:20 PM
 #128

Avem decizia:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2jq1e13jj7u37i/ECJ%20Bitcoin%20decision.pdf?dl=0

22 By its first question, the referring court asks, in essence, whether Article 2(1)(c) of the VAT
Directive must be interpreted as meaning that transactions such as those at issue in the main
proceedings, which consist of the exchange of traditional currency for units of the ‘bitcoin’
virtual currency and vice versa, in return for payment of a sum equal to the difference between,
on the one hand, the price paid by the operator to purchase the currency and, on the other hand,
the price at which he sells that currency to his clients, constitutes the supply of services for
consideration within the meaning of that article.

24 It must be held, first, that the ‘bitcoin’ virtual currency with bidirectional flow, which will be
exchanged for traditional currencies in the context of exchange transactions, cannot be
characterised as ‘tangible property’ within the meaning of Article 14 of the VAT Directive,
given that, as the Advocate General has observed in point 17 of her Opinion, that virtual
currency has no purpose other than to be a means of payment.

26 Consequently, the transactions at issue in the main proceedings, which consist of the exchange
of different means of payment, do not fall within the concept of the ‘supply of goods’, laid down
in Article 14 of the directive. In those circumstances, those transactions constitute the supply of
services, within the meaning of Article 24 of the VAT Directive.

32 By its second question, the referring court asks, in essence, whether Article 135(1)(d) to (f) of
the VAT Directive must be interpreted as meaning that the supply of services such as those at
issue in the main proceedings, which consist of the exchange of traditional currencies for units
of the ‘bitcoin’ virtual currency and vice versa, performed in return for payment of a sum equal
to the difference between, on the one hand, the price paid by the operator to purchase the
currency and, on the other hand, the price at which he sells that currency to his clients, are
exempt from VAT.

57 Having regard to the foregoing considerations, the answer to the second question is that:
– Article 135(1)(e) of the VAT Directive must be interpreted as meaning that the supply of
services such as those at issue in the main proceedings, which consist of the exchange of
traditional currencies for units of the ‘bitcoin’ virtual currency and vice versa, performed
in return for payment of a sum equal to the difference between, on the one hand, the price
paid by the operator to purchase the currency and, on the other hand, the price at which he
sells that currency to his clients, are transactions exempt from VAT, within the meaning of
that provision;

CHAPTER 3
Exemptions for other activities
Article 135
1. Member States shall exempt the following transactions:
(e) transactions, including negotiation, concerning currency, bank notes and coins used as legal tender, with the exception of collectors' items, that is to say, gold, silver or other metal coins or bank notes which are not normally used as legal tender or coins of numismatic interest;

Inteleg ca ei considera bitcoin drept means of payment, care este exclus in sine de la TVA, iar schimbul de means of payment (euro si bitcoin de exemplu) este exclus de la TVA.

Vlad


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November 29, 2015, 08:41:51 AM
 #129

Chiar ar fi fain ca in viitor sa iasa bitcoin sub forma de monede adevarate cu care se vor putea plati pentru produse la magazine. Sau daca nu monede macar un bon de ala cu un cod pe care il iei de la aparate ca la PaySafe si care sa bagi codu ala in walletu tau de BTC si sa primesti bani instant.. ar fi super.
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December 04, 2015, 12:58:37 AM
 #130

Exista deja monede Bitcoin 'adevarate', desi au mai mult scop de stocare de valoare si obiect de colectie. De ce sa folosim bonuri cand avem aplicatii de portofel pe telefon?

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July 21, 2016, 04:54:43 PM
 #131

Just think about the way we all live and the little time we have left on this earth.

http://eslinformation4u.com/The-Purge-Election-Year-Full-Movie-HD/

How true!

Mad Max:  Days of Chaos - is about to begin.

I hear it's 5D.  Wink

iXcoin - Welcome to the F U T U R E!
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August 30, 2016, 08:13:02 PM
 #132

Bitcoin este o moneda foarte renumita si care se poate transforma oricand in bani reali. Nu a fost nici o problema cu asta
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December 18, 2016, 05:13:13 PM
Last edit: December 22, 2018, 04:49:05 AM by xcajun21
 #133

Chiar ar fi fain ca in viitor sa iasa bitcoin sub forma de monede adevarate cu care se vor putea plati pentru produse la magazine.

Ar fi greu de imaginat sa trăiești în România și sa nu ai lei în buzunar,  ci bitcoin.  Ar însemna bitcoin ul sa valoreze trilioane de dolari,  adică o cantitate enorma de informații.  

Chiar.  Știe cineva cât de greu și pana când o sa fie safe Btcoinul fata de hăcuit?
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December 29, 2016, 03:46:59 AM
 #134

Chiar ar fi fain ca in viitor sa iasa bitcoin sub forma de monede adevarate cu care se vor putea plati pentru produse la magazine.

Ar fi greu de imaginat sa trăiești în România și sa nu ai lei în buzunar,  ci bitcoin.  Ar însemna bitcoin ul sa valoreze trilioane de dolari,  adică o cantitate enorma de informații. 

Chiar.  Știe cineva cât de greu și pana când o sa fie safe Btcoinul de hăcuit?
De spart codul sau la ce te referi mai exact? Este imposibil de "spart", problemele  apar insa la metodele de stocare ( multe exchangeuri au pierdut sume fabuloase, intentionat sau nu)

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February 15, 2017, 05:02:56 AM
 #135

Salut, mda daca stiam asta prima data cand am primit aceasta moneda poate acum faceam afaceri si nu mai trebuia sa muncesc Smiley) eu am crezut ca is doar ceva gold pentru un joc prima daca cand am vazut bitcoin , inca mai tin minte ca avea 1 btc si ceva si oricum il castigasem in 4-5 ore nu avea (cred) nici o valoare pe atunci, dar daca stiam eu cat urma sa coste unu Smiley)) si nici wallet-ul nul mai am aveam fisieru pe alt pc ....
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February 15, 2017, 09:08:29 AM
 #136

foarte corect la inceput costa 2$ luai 1000 acum aveai milionul de dolari
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February 18, 2017, 12:10:11 PM
 #137

Chiar ar fi fain ca in viitor sa iasa bitcoin sub forma de monede adevarate cu care se vor putea plati pentru produse la magazine.

Ar fi greu de imaginat sa trăiești în România și sa nu ai lei în buzunar,  ci bitcoin.  Ar însemna bitcoin ul sa valoreze trilioane de dolari,  adică o cantitate enorma de informații. 

Chiar.  Știe cineva cât de greu și pana când o sa fie safe Btcoinul de hăcuit?
De spart codul sau la ce te referi mai exact? Este imposibil de "spart", problemele  apar insa la metodele de stocare ( multe exchangeuri au pierdut sume fabuloase, intentionat sau nu)

nu e imposibil, doar ca inainte de a sparge cineva BTC mai repede explodeaza soarele.
asta exceptand quantum computers. care daca vor aparea sigur vor ajuta la spargerea oricarei parole.
era aici un tip care oferea o recompensa de 1000 BTC celui care ii gaseste valoarea unei necunoscute k si ii explica algoritmul.
valoarea lui k era intre 0 si 2^57 adica un numar format din 72 de cifre
ei bine nimeni nu a gasit valoarea si nici nu a putut sa ofere o explicatie
daca cineva gasea un algoritm atunci acea persoana avea acces la toate cheile private de la toate adresele de BTC existente.

Space for rent if its still trending
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May 29, 2017, 08:47:12 PM
 #138

Exista deja monede Bitcoin 'adevarate', desi au mai mult scop de stocare de valoare si obiect de colectie. De ce sa folosim bonuri cand avem aplicatii de portofel pe telefon?
Exaaact adica sunt deja siteuri care accepta plata in Bitcoin si mi se pare ca e super bine deoarece chiar ar putea fi un mijloc de plata al viitorului dar gen nu bani gheata ci sa fie ceva mai simplu si virtual.

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August 22, 2017, 07:49:27 AM
 #139

Bitcoinii sunt bani adevarati atat timp cat pot sa fie schimbati in bani reali. Adica in bani pe care sa ii bagi in buzunar sau in bani folositori petru cumpararea diverselor marfuri. In antichitate se folosea trocul. Cum se spune banul este expresia muncii, adica are valoare atat timp cat exista marfa. La fel si cu bitcoinul, bitcoinul este ban adevarat si are valoare atat timp cat exista marfa care sa ii dea valoare, aceasta se numeste capitalizare a pietei.
Cat lumea este interesata de  bitcoin si de schimburilea de marfa sau de bani in bitcoin, bitcoinul este ban adevarat.
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August 22, 2017, 09:16:37 PM
 #140

@valentin68
Tot ce ai scris mai sus e total adevarat atat doar daca inlocuiesti "ban" cu "bun" Wink
In momentul de fata Bitcoinii sunt un bun, un produs digital, o valoare care da, poate fi schimbata in bani reali.
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