Bitcoin Forum
April 27, 2024, 11:18:08 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: ASIC (Avalon Mining)  (Read 722 times)
LeroyB (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 18, 2013, 05:04:19 PM
 #1

I'm curious about these ASIC rigs and chips that are hitting the market.  If a company spends tens or hundreds of thousands building efficient rigs for bitcoin mining, and let's say bitcoin goes bust... are these chips essentially useless? It's my understanding that they can't be reprogrammed to use a different form of currency such litecoin for instance or for other computations.  So basically it's written into the chip and it's only used for this process?

If anyone can shine any light on this for me I'm extremely curious.
1714259888
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714259888

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714259888
Reply with quote  #2

1714259888
Report to moderator
1714259888
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714259888

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714259888
Reply with quote  #2

1714259888
Report to moderator
No Gods or Kings. Only Bitcoin
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714259888
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714259888

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714259888
Reply with quote  #2

1714259888
Report to moderator
turtle83
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 250


Supersonic


View Profile WWW
April 18, 2013, 05:08:52 PM
 #2

They can do any sha256 based currency.

http://dustcoin.com/mining

any of the "SHA-256" currency listed there can be mined with these chips.

antekh
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0



View Profile
April 18, 2013, 05:12:47 PM
 #3

They can do any sha256 based currency.

http://dustcoin.com/mining

any of the "SHA-256" currency listed there can be mined with these chips.
It's also worth adding that any of the "scrypt" currency is quite unlikely to be mined using ASIC in near future
LeroyB (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 18, 2013, 05:16:34 PM
 #4

Thanks for that information...

Can it do anything other than mine currencies or would it be able to be modified to decrypt/encrypt anything using the SHA-256 hash?


@antekh - why is that? Simply because a company won't be manufacturing any ASIC chips for this or because of some other restriction?
Minas3d
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 18
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 18, 2013, 05:20:53 PM
 #5

It's the nature of the algorithm, I'm not a computer scientist or mathematician so I can't explain further, all I understand is that the fundamentals of Scrypt are different in a way that basically makes your CPU/GPU already as efficient as one can get with hashing.
antekh
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0



View Profile
April 18, 2013, 05:22:07 PM
 #6

@antekh - why is that? Simply because a company won't be manufacturing any ASIC chips for this or because of some other restriction?
scrypt and sha-256 are different algorithms and in short words: scrypt needs more resources (more and fast RAM) than currently available FPGAs or ASICs don't have.

You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrypt#Introduction also some more info here: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/16354/whats-the-advantage-of-using-pbkdf2-vs-sha256-to-generate-an-aes-encryption-key
turtle83
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 250


Supersonic


View Profile WWW
April 18, 2013, 05:25:02 PM
 #7

Thanks for that information...

Can it do anything other than mine currencies or would it be able to be modified to decrypt/encrypt anything using the SHA-256 hash?

FPGA - yes
ASIC - unlikely. sure answer after avalon releases chip specs. I would think these chips are highly optimized for mining only.

@antekh - why is that? Simply because a company won't be manufacturing any ASIC chips for this or because of some other restriction?

because scrypt needs lots of memory for each hash. going to and back from cheap DDR memory takes too long, and the memory closer to the chips are too less in most chips. Its a hard problem to solve since the scrypt algorithm was specifically designed to mitigate attacks from custom hardware.

read this : http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/1305/what-features-of-scrypt-make-tenebrix-gpu-resistant

LeroyB (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 18, 2013, 05:27:08 PM
 #8

Thank you so much for the information guys.  I'll do some more reading, great forum you all are very helpful and have a great attitude! Keep it up!
Schrankwand
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 18, 2013, 05:27:43 PM
 #9

@antekh - why is that? Simply because a company won't be manufacturing any ASIC chips for this or because of some other restriction?
scrypt and sha-256 are different algorithms and in short words: scrypt needs more resources (more and fast RAM) than currently available FPGAs or ASICs don't have.

You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrypt#Introduction also some more info here: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/16354/whats-the-advantage-of-using-pbkdf2-vs-sha256-to-generate-an-aes-encryption-key

What is interesting is, that when I shopped around, I found quite a lot of FPGA PCI board that although dang expensive, had ridiculous computing power and pretty heavy amounts of RAM. Some of them used for development or medical imaging.
Minas3d
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 18
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 18, 2013, 05:32:42 PM
 #10


What is interesting is, that when I shopped around, I found quite a lot of FPGA PCI board that although dang expensive, had ridiculous computing power and pretty heavy amounts of RAM. Some of them used for development or medical imaging.

The only thing they've got going for them is that they're hyper efficient, with the same hashing as a high-end GPU, but at a fraction of the energy usage, and they're a lot more expensive. They're only worth it if you were planning on running them dozens at a time, if they were as cheap as a regular GPU people would be jumping on them.
Signus
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0



View Profile
April 18, 2013, 07:26:10 PM
 #11


What is interesting is, that when I shopped around, I found quite a lot of FPGA PCI board that although dang expensive, had ridiculous computing power and pretty heavy amounts of RAM. Some of them used for development or medical imaging.

The only thing they've got going for them is that they're hyper efficient, with the same hashing as a high-end GPU, but at a fraction of the energy usage, and they're a lot more expensive. They're only worth it if you were planning on running them dozens at a time, if they were as cheap as a regular GPU people would be jumping on them.

Well also with the rise of the ASIC "soon-to-be" market, people dropped their FPGA's or bought them up already. Also, many of the FPGA projects were self contained and either a single guy or a small team did the builds and managed/tested the hardware and software based off of the community. The work they put into those projects was immense, so they made a few batches, shifted to another project, and then stopped.

If you want a FPGA now, you're SOL. I've been looking for the last 3-4 months and they're all at least $600+. Many of them like the Icarus or ModMiner are selling for double the cost they were sold at, if you're lucky enough to find one.

Also most of the FPGA sales are taking place in BTC, which for newcomers is a problem. Otherwise the guys who are selling their used FPGA's are doing so very quickly.

The rest of those people are using theirs until they get a ASIC.

As for me, I think the ASIC market is annoying since BFL and Avalon both have their downfalls. I am currently in the development of a FPGA of my own, given I am developing my Master's Thesis on FPGA's. Avalon is also selling off a large quantity of their chips, so I may do a DIY build soon, which is right now the cheapest and most convenient method to actually mine a decent amount before everyone else gets their ASIC rigs (Since Avalon is selling their rigs for ~74BTC and BFL hasn't shipped a single unit).
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!