SaintFlow
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Activity: 476
Merit: 250
The first is by definition not flawed.
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April 18, 2013, 06:54:12 PM |
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I did have a read through all documents, He seems accused of a mixture of froud/moneylaundering/financing terrorism and hope that someshit will stick, basic routine I guess. They locked the bank accounts and can do so "legally" for up to 3 months. One of the documents describes the "schema" he allegedly used (i.e. transfering money around and it all has to do something with this digital currency called bitcoin). So it seems they raided him and his company "legally" and get to enjoy themself sorting out for "evidence". Meanwhile his layer protests in the most beautiful obscure legaltalk that warbs minds. |
don't let me make you question your assumptions
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Vandroiy
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Activity: 1036
Merit: 1002
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April 18, 2013, 06:57:17 PM |
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The latter document reads that fraud is suspected. "The accusation is that he is neither willing nor able to obtain the internet-currency Bitcoin for his customers." I don't really know the Bitcoin-24 situation. Doesn't look like anti-Bitcoin reasoning in there.  |
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SaintFlow
Sr. Member
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Activity: 476
Merit: 250
The first is by definition not flawed.
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April 18, 2013, 07:00:52 PM |
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The latter document reads that fraud is suspected. "The accusation is that he is neither willing nor able to obtain the internet-currency Bitcoin for his customers." I don't really know the Bitcoin-24 situation. Doesn't look like anti-Bitcoin reasoning in there. I read the subtext the same. Maybe someone wants to do a paypal style fraud on him? Someone bought coins and told the police he never got them? Have I missed any public accusations? |
don't let me make you question your assumptions
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EuroTrash
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April 18, 2013, 07:01:39 PM |
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I only have some basic German but: 1. (April 9th) seems to be a notification from for the Polish authorities of the Polish bank account being blocked until July 8th 2013. He has 7 days to reply although I don't understand what happens after he replies. 2. (April 16th) seems to be a written reply from his lawyer, saying that his account was used to receive money in payment for virtual currency "bitcoins" from people mostly from Germany and from the company MTGOX POLAND INC. 3. (April 16th) seems to be a confirmation from the German authorities that his apartment and possessions have been searched (!) Doesn't look good  |
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hackstutz
Newbie
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Activity: 20
Merit: 0
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April 18, 2013, 07:03:17 PM |
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we have passed being ignored
we have passed being laughed at
next up: they fight us
tune in also the upcomming season: they join us
+1 |
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adamstgBit
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Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
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April 18, 2013, 07:04:23 PM |
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The latter document reads that fraud is suspected. "The accusation is that he is neither willing nor able to obtain the internet-currency Bitcoin for his customers." I don't really know the Bitcoin-24 situation. Doesn't look like anti-Bitcoin reasoning in there. hmmm will be interesting to see how this develops i would speculate that, to many users of this exchange have tried to file charge backs claiming they never got their bitcoins or their account was never credited. now the bank thinks the exchange is a fraud... |
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adamstgBit
Legendary
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Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
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April 18, 2013, 07:06:20 PM |
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I only have some basic German but: 1. (April 9th) seems to be a notification from for the Polish authorities of the Polish bank account being blocked until July 8th 2013. He has 7 days to reply although I don't understand what happens after he replies. 2. (April 16th) seems to be a written reply from his lawyer, saying that his account was used to receive money in payment for virtual currency "bitcoins" from people mostly from Germany and from the company MTGOX POLAND INC. 3. (April 16th) seems to be a confirmation from the German authorities that his apartment and possessions have been searched (!) Doesn't look good what are they looking for??? the bitcoins!? LOL  |
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BitSmile
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April 18, 2013, 07:09:18 PM |
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I read the subtext the same. Maybe someone wants to do a paypal style fraud on him? Someone bought coins and told the police he never got them? Have I missed any public accusations? What happened is that someone bought bitcoins in the bitcoin-24 exchange with stolen bank accounts, using the e-banking transfers, in Deutsche Bank I think, and someone must have initiated a lawsuit, probably the hacked account owners. |
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paraipan
In memoriam
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Activity: 924
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: 1pirata
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April 18, 2013, 07:09:29 PM |
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We need Switzerland based exchange
You have one in Austria, is called virwox.com |
BTCitcoin: An Idea Worth Saving - Q&A with bitcoins on rugatu.com - Check my rep
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Brushan
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Activity: 224
Merit: 10
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April 18, 2013, 07:09:57 PM |
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I don't understand what the accusation is? They must have an accusation and proof to raid someones home. Is it fraud, money laundering or financing terrorism? If it's the first one then it's nothing. But the other two means something big is about to happen.
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adamstgBit
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Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
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April 18, 2013, 07:12:23 PM |
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The latter document reads that fraud is suspected. "The accusation is that he is neither willing nor able to obtain the internet-currency Bitcoin for his customers." I don't really know the Bitcoin-24 situation. Doesn't look like anti-Bitcoin reasoning in there. I read the subtext the same. Maybe someone wants to do a paypal style fraud on him? Someone bought coins and told the police he never got them? Have I missed any public accusations? What happened is that someone bought bitcoins in the bitcoin-24 exchange with stolen bank accounts, using the e-banking transfers, in Deutsche Bank I think, and someone must have initiated a lawsuit, probably the hacked account owners. something similar happened to cavitrex a while back when they started taking e-banking deposits. cavitrex didn't give any details; all they said is that due to fraud they could no longer accept this form of deposits. |
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Brushan
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Activity: 224
Merit: 10
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April 18, 2013, 07:13:01 PM |
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The latter document reads that fraud is suspected. "The accusation is that he is neither willing nor able to obtain the internet-currency Bitcoin for his customers." I don't really know the Bitcoin-24 situation. Doesn't look like anti-Bitcoin reasoning in there. I read the subtext the same. Maybe someone wants to do a paypal style fraud on him? Someone bought coins and told the police he never got them? Have I missed any public accusations? What happened is that someone bought bitcoins in the bitcoin-24 exchange with stolen bank accounts, using the e-banking transfers, in Deutsche Bank I think, and someone must have initiated a lawsuit, probably the hacked account owners. [/quote] Oh ok. But why the fuck raid his home? Can't they just ask for info from him since it is clear that he shouldn't be held suspect in this case. |
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antimattercrusader
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April 18, 2013, 07:17:10 PM |
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Why raid his home?
Make an example? Who knows. Because they can.
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BTC: 13WYhobWLHRMvBwXGq5ckEuUyuDPgMmHuK
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BitSmile
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April 18, 2013, 07:18:23 PM |
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Oh ok. But why the fuck raid his home? Can't they just ask for info from him since it is clear that he shouldn't be held suspect in this case.
I think we're being f*cked for real here, if they start a crackdown like this on the exchanges stating things like terrorism and money laundering. We don't stand a chance if someone doesn't go forward and talks with the governments like grown-ups. Doesn't Bitcoin have a Foundation? Can't they speak against this kind of thing? |
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EuroTrash
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April 18, 2013, 07:19:06 PM |
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I don't understand what the accusation is? They must have an accusation and proof to raid someones home. Is it fraud, money laundering or financing terrorism? If it's the first one then it's nothing. But the other two means something big is about to happen.
Ah well. If I read it right, the letter apologetically explains that doing a search was the only option they have when dealing with an accusation of such a strong crime. Like "we need to sandpaper the inside of your anus, but we say sorry first". |
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Xendrios
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April 18, 2013, 07:20:34 PM |
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Oh ok. But why the fuck raid his home? Can't they just ask for info from him since it is clear that he shouldn't be held suspect in this case.
I think we're being f*cked for real here, if they start a crackdown like this on the exchanges stating things like terrorism and money laundering. We don't stand a chance if someone doesn't go forward and talks with the governments like grown-ups. Doesn't Bitcoin have a Foundation? Can't they speak against this kind of thing? The exchanges should open bank accounts in countries outside of the EU. Europe needs money. |
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Brushan
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Merit: 10
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April 18, 2013, 07:23:38 PM |
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Ok i feel bad for him but this isn't a big thing for Bitcoin. Just some hackers stealing accounts. The thing that makes me angry is how the police dealt with it. This is only possible because people have been raised to turn the other cheek.
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antimattercrusader
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April 18, 2013, 07:24:42 PM |
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Oh ok. But why the fuck raid his home? Can't they just ask for info from him since it is clear that he shouldn't be held suspect in this case.
I think we're being f*cked for real here, if they start a crackdown like this on the exchanges stating things like terrorism and money laundering. We don't stand a chance if someone doesn't go forward and talks with the governments like grown-ups. Doesn't Bitcoin have a Foundation? Can't they speak against this kind of thing? We are going to have to expect at least some governments to throw everything they can at bitcoin. But you're right, perhaps bitcoin needs a lobby *gag.* Similar to AOPA for general aviation, someone who has some power who can represent the true nature of bitcoin. You can expect the banks with their lobby are currently or about to unleash an epic smear campaign, there needs ot be another side to the story. What about setting up exchanges using banks in the Caymans? I don't know anything about that, but has it been considered? Another thought, wouldn't this be a good source of revenue for one of those tiny island nations somewhere that has no other source of revenue? What about Trisan de Culhan, or is that British? What about someone in Micronesia, or hell... even Sealand, although if it became an issue they wouldn't be there long |
BTC: 13WYhobWLHRMvBwXGq5ckEuUyuDPgMmHuK
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Brushan
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April 18, 2013, 07:26:23 PM |
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Oh ok. But why the fuck raid his home? Can't they just ask for info from him since it is clear that he shouldn't be held suspect in this case.
I think we're being f*cked for real here, if they start a crackdown like this on the exchanges stating things like terrorism and money laundering. We don't stand a chance if someone doesn't go forward and talks with the governments like grown-ups. Doesn't Bitcoin have a Foundation? Can't they speak against this kind of thing? The exchanges should open bank accounts in countries outside of the EU. Europe needs money. We should crowdfund and open an exchange in some tax haven country and have the possibility to deposit by sending cash. That way they can't touch us. |
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MaGNeT
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Waves | 3PHMaGNeTJfqFfD4xuctgKdoxLX188QM8na
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April 18, 2013, 07:28:22 PM |
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The fact that bank assets can be frozen by a government, only pleads for Bitcoin.
Time for a P2P exchange.
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