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Author Topic: Mining based on Multiple choice game (man hour) as consumption of resources?  (Read 639 times)
JeanLuc.Picard111 (OP)
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February 21, 2017, 10:12:29 PM
Last edit: February 24, 2017, 02:53:51 PM by JeanLuc.Picard111
 #1

This is my first post. If I am grossly wrong, please point me where to look.
Just few months back i got interested in bitcoin and Block chain technology. So I am kind of fresh meat compare to lots of you here. Respect.
The Block Chain technology and future possibilities got me really excited.

One thing I noticed that, The Block chain has potential to become truly major currency/(ies) of the world.
One major problems I see in that path and that is: any cryptocurrency is a nerd Currency. For the most simple people of the planet, it is not easy to earn this currency. It is not easy to understand the mechanics.
Common people do not understand the mechanics of Fiat currency either. But then can do a simple odd job and earn modest fiat coins anywhere in the world.

Is there any efforts made to create a currency that can be mined by consumption of Human attention (as a resource) for a fixed period of time?
e.g. imagine 100 people engaged in a activity on internet, and awarded 1 coin each representing 1 Man hour consumption.

##################################################################################################################

Update: 2/23/2017
Summary of all the replies is here.
I started this thread as I saw tremendous potential in Block chain technology, at the same time hurdles in the existing solutions to reach the lower level participants of our food chain. I will try to organize replies in this top section. I will try to keep updated this section at once a week. To keep us focus and organized on the topic, when you reply please specify which part of summary below you are referring to.

 
Problem Statement: It is not easy for existing cryptocurrencies to reach to the lower level participants of the food chain.
          Description of Problem Statement: any cryptocurrency is a nerd Currency. For the most simple people of the planet, it is not easy to earn this currency. It is not easy to understand the mechanics. Common people do not understand the mechanics of Fiat currency either. But then can do a simple odd job and earn modest fiat coins anywhere in the world.  Fiat_Money game is embedded in people's mind. We think about it all the time. We dream about it. We have water cooler discussions about it. At the end of the day, people play it because It's been given to them (like natural elements), It *seems* fair as Governance knows exactly how much to push without creating chaos. It gives framework to meet needs of survival and Procreation.
People need to create their own game by their own rules, own beginning and own understanding of the value. This new game has to reach in people's mind, in activities, in small talks during the break of a hard labor daily wage job. the new game should have potential to reach and relate to all levels of intelligence. It has to be Bottom-UP approach than the existing Top-down approach of Bitcoin. If Rich and nerds of the world have easier access to mining then how different it is from any Fiat currency in principal? If i have guess, the best gift of Satoshi to us, is the possibilities block chain technology has shown us. And the ground that gained us (by bitcoin) for long time and more future time to come. But if we have to take decentralization to the next level, we have to find a way to reach the bottom layer of food chain easily.  I suggest Human attention as fuel of consumption. Man has limited time in his active life. What man chooses to do with his given time is most asset important question. Time is the only true asset, rest is illusion of asset.  Math is the ultimate product, Block Chain is the medium and Game is the wrapper to reach the most common humans who may not understand even simple math, forget cryptography.    


Goal of the new currency:
1.   Bottom Up approach to reach to the lower level participants of the food chain.
2.   Human attention as fuel of consumption.
3.   Reward (Coin mining) that will : gain people's long term trust, help to spread, help to sustain, fair to all levels of  the food chain.
4.   The process of mining:  should keep people interested (feeling of winning it fairly), Should become part of life across population (should be able to relate to it easily).
5.   DAO like structure to support development.


Data collection: Existing/Past approaches to use Human attention as a fuel of consumption.
                      
1.   1.how does captcha coin works?,
2.   FacileCoin(FCN) has human solved picture puzzles,
3.   Bitwalking
4.   Hunter coin
5.   Mrai (captcha )
6.   Synereo   First would want to throw in "attention economy" has been touched, and messed up somewhat, by Synereo the remaining rubble is readable right over here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995987.new#new


Data Analysis: TBD



Suggested Solutions:
Solution_JeanLuc.picard111
                               "Mining, The Game"
•   Goal is to submit a good question in Question Bank, comparatively easy for Human intellect and difficult for AI. Then win coins in a social competitive game by selecting socially correct answers. Award is based on Knowledge, strategy, hard work and luck.
•   During Voting Period: Between 2 games, lies a Question Voting period (about 5 days). Each participants allowed to upload Part1+Part2 of one question per game to have a chance to make it to Question Bank. Part2 of any question will be known only to individual submitter till game time. System will keep part2 encrypted till the Game Day. All Participants will judge and rate the questions based on Part1 as Yes/No or Invalid. Top Selected  questions will go in question bank. Voting period Over.
•   During Game Time: 30 random questions(part1+part2) from Question bank will be used in a game played for 30 min. 1 min per question at a time.  After the 30 min game, 5 minutes window to vote on invalid question based on Part2, will open. Bottom 2 invalid questions will be eliminated. Socially correct answer will be found for all valid question. 2 each, Too easy and too difficult answered questions will be discarded in score. 24 valid countable questions will be used to calculate individual score. Mean score will be found. All participants who score minimum 25% of mean score will become valid participants. 1 coin per valid participants will be mined and awarded to top 50% ranked valid participants. Bonus will be award coins for valid question submitter(s) of that game.  Game End.

The flow chart of how game progresses is below. Image will not appear on post as I am new member.
https://i.imgur.com/nyzLAMV.jpg

The description that relates to the above flow of game is below.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Game201. Voting windows start from Monday to Friday. QB already has 300 questions from previous games. New 800 questions posted by players during voting window and voted as Yes/No/Invalid. Voting period over. Individual players reputation score will be updated.
*Game201_startTime  is on a given Saturday at 17:00 GMT. Game201_Endtime = 17:30 GMT. Game201_post_game_voting_period starts at 17:35 and ends at 17:40. All results out and coins transfer complete by 18:00. 
         Selection_percentage  = 15  for  Game201. Top 15 percentile rank questions i.e. 120 questions out of 800 will go in to QB_current. Random 20 questions will be picked out of 120 from QB_current will make in to Game201_QB. 10 questions will pop out from QB and make in to Game201_QB making in total 30 Questions in Game201_QB. 10 more random questions will be seleceted from QB_current and will replaced in to QB, making it 300 again. Remaining questions from QB_current will be discarded and QB_current will be reset to zero to accommodate more recent issues/questions for next game.  
*Game201 starts at start time. 1 question/answer per minute. Game ends at End time. Total 2000 players played the game. After game Players voted for invalid question based on part2.  2 invalid questions are removed from Game201_QB. Socially correct answer found for all 28 questions. 2 Top correctly answered questions (too easy) and 2 bottom  questions (too difficult) will be discarded, making game201_countable_QB of 24 questions. Individual Game201_score will be found out of 24. Mean score will be found. Game201_mean_score was 12.  Any participant scoring at least 1/4th of mean score will be consider as Game201_valid_participant. That is any player scoring more than 3.  1600 players found as Game201_valid_participants. Any person attempting at least 10 (i.e. one third)  questions out of 30 will be considered as Game201_participant. 1950 players selected as Game201_participants.
*Individual player’s Participation score will be updated. Top 50% score holders out of Game201_valid_participants will be awarded 2 coins each. So top 800 players won 2 coins each. Sum(Game201_valid_participants) will be same as the total Game201_woncoins which was 1600 coins. 10% of that will be awarded to Game201_Questions submitters. So 160 coins were distributed among 30 question submitters. Game End.



Solutions  Analysis:
     Solution Analysis Solution_JeanLuc.picard111 :   TBD

 
Plan of Action:  TBD



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February 21, 2017, 10:36:20 PM
 #2

how does captcha coin works?
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February 22, 2017, 05:47:02 AM
 #3

FacileCoin(FCN) has human solved picture puzzles, was pretty addictive.







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February 22, 2017, 05:51:16 AM
Last edit: October 31, 2017, 08:10:04 AM by ImHash
 #4

Might as well gets trashed by mods.
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February 22, 2017, 06:34:49 AM
 #5

Bitwalking is a currency or a mining method where you install their app on your smart phone and as you walk while holding the phone in your hand or something like that you'll get rewarded.

That is a good idea or coins Smiley just heard from you.

@OP It seems you have a unique idea also and hope someone can develop that if here is no coins like that in the market right now. I know Raiblocks and it has a good concept but it seem not perfect yet. There is problem in wallet in my experience but I now there is a dev reviving and helping the system. I think this kind of coin project is sustainable as it is consumption based.

Open for Campaigns
JeanLuc.Picard111 (OP)
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February 22, 2017, 02:28:57 PM
 #6

Thanks Febo, 6436346346, ImHash, Clickerz.

I looked at some of the topics you mentioned. and I think the idea in my mind could be unique (Thanks Clickerz).
Idea is very clear in my head and even in a form of small power point presentation.I spent nights thinking about it and possible hurdles and ways to overcome it.
Because all is in my head, there is also a chance that I could be insane person too. But I am touched by one quote from Satoshi.

“if I only ever did things that I was 100% certain were going to work out for the best, I would never accomplish anything new and interesting.”
-- Satoshi Nakamoto.

I am going to put little bit out at a time, till I feel confident enough that it is not insanity. 

I have 15+ experience in software. Not an expert in c++ as i never did full c++ project, but understands it good. More of scripting like TCL, Python.
I also worked on PGP encryption technology for several months long time back.

Here are first few bits of the idea:

I am suggesting a Mining Game. The idea of Mining coins and exchange of coins can be 2 separate blockchains. Mining will be a game.
and award will be coins in the game blockchain. Exchange of coins will have commission on the exchange blockchain.

The game will be to find "socially correct answers" for questions submitted by Gamers.(to beat the AI)
Example 1. what is 1 divided by Zero? Socially correct answer will be more likely to be Zero than infinity.

Example 2. A Puzzle: 2 prisoners in 2 isolated rooms. Both will be shown exact copy of 5 different numbers. They have to choose one number that they think other prisoner will also choose. If win they will be set free. What number out of following  choices they are more likely to select as guess?       
            A. 17893   B.10000 C. 68751 D.15423  E. none of the above.

Humans are more likely to select B. AI will give equal weight to first 4 choices. [Reference: Vitalik Buterin, Somewhere on Ethereum site.]


Here is my first slide...

###

You will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography. [Ref: Anonymous conversations with Satoshi. From  The Book of Satoshi - The Collected Writings of Bitcoin Creator Satoshi Nakamoto]
Fiat Money is a game. At the end of the day, people play it because It's been given to them (like natural elements), It *seems* fair as Governance knows exactly how much to push without creating chaos. It gives framework to meet needs of survival and Procreation. People need to create their own game by their own rules, own beginning and own understanding of the value. 
Fiat money + Credit economy, fails to answer 2 questions. 1. How much money is good enough?  2. How much a person expected to work in his lifetime? (besides many other points discussed by Experts.)
Math is the ultimate product, Block Chain is the medium and Game is the wrapper to reach the most common humans who may not understand even simple math, forget cryptography.
 

###

Let me know what you guys Think.
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February 22, 2017, 04:19:46 PM
 #7

why searching for a currency like this, which do not exist i'm sure, if you know about bitwage you know that you can receive your salary in bitcoin, and forget about mining and all these stuff, i'm sure in the future, regular job in real life might have the possibility to get payed in many crypto currency but currently it's not feasible at all

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February 22, 2017, 05:24:05 PM
 #8

user Iamnotback (formerly TPTB_Need_War and Anonymint) has talked about exactly what you just described, where people get rewarded simply for participating in the ecosystem.  How exactly something like this would work is way above my pay grade, hopefully we will hear more details from him soon.
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February 22, 2017, 05:51:15 PM
 #9

"if I only ever did things that I was 100% certain were going to work out for the best, I would never accomplish anything new and interesting."
-- Satoshi Nakamoto.
There is a site for Satoshiquotes?
   
Back on toppic. First would want to throw in "attention economy" has been touched, and messed up somewhat, by Synereo the remaining rubble is readable right over here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995987.new#new

But second and this really itches me, prisoners in isolated rooms. Just remembering there had been cases of prisoners beeing forced to slave for World of Warcraft items, or currency.
If you start to create something where human attention/time gets wired into straight cash, you will have to cover with those very nasty side effects.
And there we are back to Satoshi and uncertainity. To do, or not to do?

Example 2. A Puzzle: 2 prisoners in 2 isolated rooms. Both will be shown exact copy of 5 different numbers. They have to choose one number that they think other prisoner will also choose. If win they will be set free. What number out of following  choices they are more likely to select as guess?
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February 22, 2017, 06:31:37 PM
 #10

@John Titor
I would love to see Iamnotback sharing his views here.

@e-coinomist
I found Satoshi quote in this book.
https://www.amazon.com/Book-Satoshi-Collected-Writings-Nakamoto/dp/0996061312/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487787497&sr=8-1&keywords=satoshi

<If you start to create something where human attention/time gets wired into straight cash, you will have to cover with those very nasty side effects.>

yes, I have thought about it.
In the Mining Game, goal is to submit a good question in Question Bank in advance, comparatively easy for Human intellect and difficult for AI. Then win coins in a social competitive game by selecting socially correct answers. Award is based on Knowledge, strategy, hard work and luck.

The gaming system will be setup such that, if participant is forced (prisoner) then he can select wrong answers and Captors won't benefit coins.
If hired/child labors are playing, and they have intellect enough to win, then they will understand what is going on and their first goal will be to save the pay, and get a own smartphone, so that they can play and win coins for themselves.
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February 22, 2017, 07:09:42 PM
 #11

Huntercoin works sort of along the lines of what you're asking about. HUC operates on a blockchain-based video game world where players "mine" coins by playing the game. I haven't actually played, but IIRC they collect coins in the world while attacking and defending themselves from the other players in order to protect their Huntercoins and accumulate more.
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February 22, 2017, 07:26:49 PM
 #12

FacileCoin(FCN) has human solved picture puzzles, was pretty addictive.

pretty cool to be honest - much better than mining with electricity

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February 23, 2017, 03:42:00 AM
 #13

The closest I can think of is mrai it's a captcha powered faucet where you need to solve captcha to get rewarded with mrai coin,it's very popular in the altcoin section,only problem is there are to many bugs in it's wallet which the tream is still trying to fix,but the coin has a future potential in the market.


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JeanLuc.Picard111 (OP)
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February 23, 2017, 03:11:55 PM
 #14

Thanks for all who replied.
I created a summary at the first page. I will try to keep the summary updated once a week.
To keep us focus and organized on the topic, when you reply please specify which part of summary you are referring to.

My goal is to bring the problem statement to the attention and see what you think about the problem and what solution you think about.
your data references, relevant links of past threads, opinions, critics all counts. Please refer to what part of summary (first post) you are referring to, so it will be easier to weekly summarize. If you suggest another section in the summary, please do so.



JeanLuc.Picard111 (OP)
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February 24, 2017, 02:56:04 PM
 #15

Changed the title that make better sense.
Added a image (link) that explains how a typical game will be played with an example.
   
alkan
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February 24, 2017, 07:49:21 PM
 #16

In the Mining Game, goal is to submit a good question in Question Bank in advance, comparatively easy for Human intellect and difficult for AI. Then win coins in a social competitive game by selecting socially correct answers. Award is based on Knowledge, strategy, hard work and luck.

A meta question impossible to solve by AI would be: Is question x difficult/impossible for AI?  Wink

Users could submit x.

Or if you prefer multiple choice: Which of the following questions 1, 2, ... n is the hardest for AI?

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