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Author Topic: Community vote for bitcoin code ?  (Read 272 times)
MadGamer
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February 27, 2017, 05:03:05 PM
 #1

I didn't start on the early days so I'm not sure really sure how things were before, the miners had the ability to do stuff just like now, being able to approve changes on the bitcoin core code?

I wanted to bring this idea and see what people actually think, instead of waiting miners to approve SegWit why not make the community do so since bitcoin is decentralized and not everyone is really able to run a miner somehow by proving the ownership of a specific amount of bitcoins?
I know, some people might say that this could easily be faked by bots sending bitcoins to each other etc... but something should be developed for this, like locking the bitcoins until the vote finishes.

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Yakamoto
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February 27, 2017, 05:09:39 PM
 #2

>locking Bitcoin until votes to change the code are finished

If an idea like this ever goes through in a completely unironic manner, Bitcoin will be worth next to nothing if funds can be frozen like that.

As for what happens with community engagement and what would occur, why should the community decide if they have no investment in the actual proliferation of the blockchain beyond an investment?

If users run mining apparatuses or run nodes, then maybe they should be allowed to vote. But if a community can sway the decision where the people who actually perform the work have less of a voice than those who suffer due to transaction times or higher fees, then there's an issue arising.














 

 

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pedrog
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February 27, 2017, 05:13:19 PM
 #3

I didn't start on the early days so I'm not sure really sure how things were before, the miners had the ability to do stuff just like now, being able to approve changes on the bitcoin core code?

I wanted to bring this idea and see what people actually think, instead of waiting miners to approve SegWit why not make the community do so since bitcoin is decentralized and not everyone is really able to run a miner somehow by proving the ownership of a specific amount of bitcoins?
I know, some people might say that this could easily be faked by bots sending bitcoins to each other etc... but something should be developed for this, like locking the bitcoins until the vote finishes.

I believe you're describing proof of stake, bitcoin is a proof of work system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-stake
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_work

Also this: https://vote.bitcoin.com/

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February 27, 2017, 05:13:48 PM
 #4

I didn't start on the early days so I'm not sure really sure how things were before, he miners had the ability to do stuff just like now, being able to approve changes on the bitcoin core code?

the miners were users. you could use your own PC to mine bitcoin with your CPU or i think GPU later and then ASIC miners came and then difficulty grew and after some years the farms appeared and users mining with their PC died.

also your question made me think of another important questions:
How many of the users of the community have enough understanding of bitcoin to be even deciding these things?

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February 27, 2017, 05:14:03 PM
 #5

I know the bitcoin foundation used https://consider.it/ software to help establish consensus on development.  It is a nice system for this task. I met with the developers in Portland a few years back. Good guys. It would be ideal if every stakeholder  had a vote on development.  But I'm not sure how to do it without cheating.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in ICELAND - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
manselr
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February 27, 2017, 05:15:48 PM
 #6

It's about reaching consensus between all actors:

1) Node runners
2) Miners
3) Merchants
4) Wallet developers

that's basically it as far as I can tell.

So right now he situation is, 65%+ of nodes are pro segwit, we got a ton of merchants and wallet developers being pro-segwit, but only 25% of miners are signaling for segwit activation, so we are looking at a situation were the majority of actors except miners want segwit, so we will see of miners finally start collaborating and signal for it to activate it.
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February 27, 2017, 05:22:09 PM
 #7

It's about reaching consensus between all actors:

1) Node runners
2) Miners
3) Merchants
4) Wallet developers

that's basically it as far as I can tell.

So right now he situation is, 65%+ of nodes are pro segwit, we got a ton of merchants and wallet developers being pro-segwit, but only 25% of miners are signaling for segwit activation, so we are looking at a situation were the majority of actors except miners want segwit, so we will see of miners finally start collaborating and signal for it to activate it.

Where did you get that number?

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February 27, 2017, 05:28:16 PM
 #8

<snip>

So right now he situation is, 65%+ of nodes are pro segwit, we got a ton of merchants and wallet developers being pro-segwit, but only 25% of miners are signaling for segwit activation, so we are looking at a situation were the majority of actors except miners want segwit, so we will see of miners finally start collaborating and signal for it to activate it.
If there's only 25% support then we should start to look at the differences in priorities for node operators and miners. If there is something that miners really don't like about Segwit that node operators don't seem to care about, then what is it? Is it more expensive for miners? Does it impact their bottom line? If so, it makes sense there is less support.

I doubt miners will just "go with the flow" even if there is a large voice of support from the rest of the community.














 

 

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BrewMaster
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February 27, 2017, 05:32:19 PM
 #9

It's about reaching consensus between all actors:

1) Node runners
2) Miners
3) Merchants
4) Wallet developers

that's basically it as far as I can tell.

So right now he situation is, 65%+ of nodes are pro segwit, we got a ton of merchants and wallet developers being pro-segwit, but only 25% of miners are signaling for segwit activation, so we are looking at a situation were the majority of actors except miners want segwit, so we will see of miners finally start collaborating and signal for it to activate it.

Where did you get that number?

there are sites that list these things such as https://coin.dance/nodes and i believe 21.co had a section for nodes too.
and according to coin.dance (first link) 82% of the nodes are signalling segwit (running bitcoin core) edit: seems like i was missing the version part.

that is unless i am missing something about the version of the clients since coin.dance says nothing about version of the clients these nodes run.

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February 27, 2017, 05:40:55 PM
 #10

It's about reaching consensus between all actors:

1) Node runners
2) Miners
3) Merchants
4) Wallet developers

that's basically it as far as I can tell.

So right now he situation is, 65%+ of nodes are pro segwit, we got a ton of merchants and wallet developers being pro-segwit, but only 25% of miners are signaling for segwit activation, so we are looking at a situation were the majority of actors except miners want segwit, so we will see of miners finally start collaborating and signal for it to activate it.

Where did you get that number?

there are sites that list these things such as https://coin.dance/nodes and i believe 21.co had a section for nodes too.
and according to coin.dance (first link) 82% of the nodes are signalling segwit (running bitcoin core)
that is unless i am missing something about the version of the clients since coin.dance says nothing about version of the clients these nodes run.

Segregated Witness soft fork was introduced in Bitcoin Core 0.13.1.

As you can see here: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/

1   /Satoshi:0.13.2/   1804 (30.32%)
2   /Satoshi:0.13.1/   1209 (20.32%)

Lets ignore 0.14 for now, Segregated Witness capable nodes are a little above 50%, and this does not indicate people running those nodes are 'pro segwit', it just indicates they like to run up to date software...

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