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Author Topic: Bitcoin's Dystopian Future  (Read 28200 times)
AnonyMint
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November 14, 2013, 11:24:59 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2013, 11:36:46 PM by AnonyMint
 #81

Pure fantasy to propose the masses (the 99%) are going to tolerate a 100000X devaluation of the western financial system handing half of society's net worth to the bitcoins minted in the first 4 years.

To be a viable currency, Bitcoin would have to be distributed to the masses, because the 97% only gain their wealth from money spent as currency. The wealthy Bitcoin early adopters aren't going to spend, rather they will invest their coins to gain more coins than they had.

Thus the masses would be forever impoverished in Bitcoin's coin supply model.

Sorry Buttcoin is a Trojan horse. See the links my prior post for details.
You seem to think that Bitcoin is going to destroy fiat. It's probably not gonna happen. The existence of gold doesn't destroy fiat for example.
 
Think about the fact that to reach 100 000$ per BTC, Bitcoin need only to capture 15% of the value of the gold market, without the need to capture any value of the fiat market.

My point is only that if BTC will dominate as proponents expect, then the dystopian outcome will occur.

I don't expect BTC to dominate as a currency for numerous reasons, e.g. a real altcoin will appear, Bitcoin mining is designed to be cartelized so it will be taken over by the government, BTC is not well distributed in society, etc..

So what I am saying is the dystopia will be averted, but how it is averted is important. One possibility is a very bad one for Bitcoin holders-- tax debtors prison. Blame the global debt crisis on the speculators. Tax the rich 1%. We are the 99%. Operation Wallstreet, etc.. But if BTC never makes it to $30,000+, it probably won't happen.

Btw, 21 million ButtHeadcoins x $100,000 = $2.1 trillion

At $1 million, mcap = $21 trillion.

Gold market is $5 trillion or so but much of that is not privately owned. So you must have transposed the digits, you mean 51% of the gold market?

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November 15, 2013, 07:12:14 AM
 #82

It is obvious to me that the OP has missed a major piece of the puzzle.

It's not just cryptocurrency that is making all of these changes... It is decentralization itself that is... And those changes will be far, far larger than monetary.

Decentralization is nothing less than the removal of power from those who have it and scattering it around to all that want it.

Gnutella was technically the first decentralized program. (That I know of.) They may have fizzled, but today we have Bittorrent, Mega, and TOR, among others, to share information through. Together these make IP laws start to seem kinda silly.

Bitcoin is a bigger jump, because it represents half the economy; any product or service that someone wants to sell, worldwide, we can now buy in a decentralized way. But it's just the buying half...

3D Printing using DEFCAD search and the resulting industry built around downloadable products will represent an even larger jump... They are the other half of the economy, and everything one could sell will eventually be manufactured and sold this way. (Destroying pretty much all existing industry worldwide.)

But that's not all! What else can we decentralize?

Well, if the government does it today, why can't we decentralize that too?

Security? But of course. Why use the .govs police when you can have free-market security services bought and sold in a decentralized environment?

Law? No problem. There are already websites like judge.me that offer non-nationalized law... Making those into a decentralized solution would be childsplay.

Whenever you think it can't be decentralized, trust me, it can. Even roads can be built privately, and decentralized marketplaces can expedite them. Fire services? Same as security. It can all be done without any government once the interest to do so is there.

So I submit that bitcoin's influence on our future is one of many 'decentralizers.' -And not the largest one by far.


This !

Yes, the next age will be the age of decentrilazation.

 -decentralized energy - Buildings as Power Plants(Wind / Solar), Smart Grid, Energy Storages of Electric Cars/ Hybrids as Grid Buffers.

 - decentralized Production - 3d-Printing manufactures

 - decentralized money - Bitcoin


In the new era, everyone can potentially be their own manufacturer, their own internet site, their own power company and their own Bank.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Industrial_Revolution

All previous versions of currency will no longer be supported as of this update
AnonyMint
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November 15, 2013, 07:14:29 PM
 #83

Yes, the next age will be the age of decentrilazation.

 -decentralized energy - Buildings as Power Plants(Wind / Solar), Smart Grid, Energy Storages of Electric Cars/ Hybrids as Grid Buffers.

 - decentralized Production - 3d-Printing manufactures

 - decentralized money - Bitcoin


In the new era, everyone can potentially be their own manufacturer, their own internet site, their own power company and their own Bank.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Industrial_Revolution

Agreed, but nevermind those low density (ambient) energy sources. They are not economic. Micro-hydropower is what you are looking for. I studied the numbers.

And I how can we have decentralization if Bitcoin is the only currency? See this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222998.msg3594303#msg3594303

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November 19, 2013, 03:51:08 PM
 #84

Yes, the next age will be the age of decentrilazation.

 -decentralized energy - Buildings as Power Plants(Wind / Solar), Smart Grid, Energy Storages of Electric Cars/ Hybrids as Grid Buffers.

 - decentralized Production - 3d-Printing manufactures

 - decentralized money - Bitcoin


In the new era, everyone can potentially be their own manufacturer, their own internet site, their own power company and their own Bank.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Industrial_Revolution

Agreed, but nevermind those low density (ambient) energy sources. They are not economic. Micro-hydropower is what you are looking for. I studied the numbers.

And I how can we have decentralization if Bitcoin is the only currency? See this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222998.msg3594303#msg3594303

AnonyMint, not only did you resurrect this topic - which I did find interesting the first time round - but you appear to be going all out writing lecture upon lecture and cross posting them anywhere you can.  I am always up for a different perspective - especially one that is out of synch with the current conventional wisdom but I'm afraid by your persistence everywhere has just earned yourself an Ignore from me.  There are many smart people on these forums and I'm confident if someone finds more substance to what you're saying than FUD and conspiracy then it will be repeated/quoted by others.  Until then, all the best Smiley
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November 28, 2013, 03:54:51 PM
 #85

There is going to be widespread rioting and looting by public sector workers as the dollar and other fiat dries up. I posted about it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350490

Be ready for the zombies (public sector employees)!!


I'm grumpy!!
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November 29, 2013, 03:55:57 AM
 #86

There is going to be widespread rioting and looting by public sector workers as the dollar and other fiat dries up. I posted about it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350490

Be ready for the zombies (public sector employees)!!

Movies taught me that the best way to escape a zombie apocalypse is to move to an island. I'm thinking of Dominica. Anyone else want to join me, or have other islands to consider?
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November 29, 2013, 04:13:01 AM
 #87

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=seychelles&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x225c21fd70bead3b:0x32d3d0a0d349daf7,Seychelles&gl=us&ei=JhSYUt7kGdLuoASI4YDoCg&ved=0CKEBELYD

Beautiful place. (As long as Somalian Zombie Pirates don't bother you, that is.)
AnonyMint
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November 29, 2013, 04:18:05 AM
 #88

Yes, the next age will be the age of decentrilazation.

 -decentralized energy - Buildings as Power Plants(Wind / Solar), Smart Grid, Energy Storages of Electric Cars/ Hybrids as Grid Buffers.

 - decentralized Production - 3d-Printing manufactures

 - decentralized money - Bitcoin


In the new era, everyone can potentially be their own manufacturer, their own internet site, their own power company and their own Bank.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Industrial_Revolution

Agreed, but nevermind those low density (ambient) energy sources. They are not economic. Micro-hydropower is what you are looking for. I studied the numbers.

And I how can we have decentralization if Bitcoin is the only currency? See this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222998.msg3594303#msg3594303

AnonyMint, not only did you resurrect this topic - which I did find interesting the first time round - but you appear to be going all out writing lecture upon lecture and cross posting them anywhere you can.  I am always up for a different perspective - especially one that is out of synch with the current conventional wisdom but I'm afraid by your persistence everywhere has just earned yourself an Ignore from me.  There are many smart people on these forums and I'm confident if someone finds more substance to what you're saying than FUD and conspiracy then it will be repeated/quoted by others.  Until then, all the best Smiley

Since when did persistence instead of the logic of the content indicate veracity and value of information.

If you rely on others to do your DD for you then you will always be late.

Movies taught me that the best way to escape a zombie apocalypse is to move to an island. I'm thinking of Dominica. Anyone else want to join me, or have other islands to consider?

The internet and movies don't prepare you for the reality that you will hate.

You will even hate much tamer islands, simply because you don't realize how important the various little things in your life and culture which go unnoticed:

http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/you-wont-like-living-in-the-philippines/

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December 08, 2013, 06:04:00 PM
Last edit: December 08, 2013, 07:04:04 PM by bnjmnkent
 #89

What a great OP! Assumed there would only be Bitcoin and no Alt-coin, the ideas presented

had even more impact.  I think, that all models for evaluating the value of Bitcoin have to

be build with regard to all alt-coins possessing a maximum amount of units. Early adopters

of Bitcoin are therefore better seen as early adopters of cryptocurrencies with this attribute.


As there is a possible infinite supply of bitcoin-clones, I see the described dangers somewhat

alleviated due to the fact that the market-share of one single crypto becomes smaller with

every crypto newly introduced.


Edit: Somewhere on BT, the topic of human slavery through machines is discussed (gmaxwell's
       ideas on autonomous agents?). Quite interesting, as machines could take over the role some
       individuals are in, today - now that the financial human-machine interface gets build.
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December 09, 2013, 05:26:58 PM
 #90

As there is a possible infinite supply of bitcoin-clones, I see the described dangers somewhat

This is possible in the same way that it's possible for there to be an infinite amount of Facebook and eBay clones, and eventually may be as possible as for there to be TCI/IP and Email clones.
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December 11, 2013, 08:34:20 PM
 #91

Your analogy is misleading.

When Facebook came out it was already just the latest in a long line of earlier social media: Myspace, MSN, ICQ...
Facebook only took over from Myspace because
1) Facebook used to have a nice clean interface with no ads, unlike Myspace with all the HTML code snippets that non-coders were pasting.
2) Viral advertising that got people to change over at the same time.

Soon, Facebook will be dumped for something better, if the process hasn't already started.

Granted. My anology was more about everyone being on Facebook, or everyone buying and selling on eBay, because all their friends and family are on Facebook, or all the other buyers and sellers being on eBay thus giving you the best price. Network Effects.
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December 11, 2013, 10:23:58 PM
 #92

I think this will go the other-way, BTC/CC's will improve so many things. Most humans like to build things up, improve and care, and even the destructive tendency have an element creation and innovation.

For instance we are at the thin end of the wedge, and what do we have?

Satoshi Forrest, where was that even possible in that form before BTC?


Admitted Practicing Lawyer::BTC/Crypto Specialist. B.Engineering/B.Laws

https://www.binance.com/?ref=10062065
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January 03, 2014, 11:38:05 PM
 #93

OP's warning is on the point. We don't have the luxury not to take proactive action to solve the early adopter problem, It is not for the next generation to think it through, attitude I have seen in many posts, or deal with the problems as the come along, it must be solved yesterday.

As it stands Bitcoin is Capitalism at its purest form, you have Money, and Machines that Generates Money, plus a cartel that gatekeeps transactions: a Banker's wet dream. Which is all that most people here secretly cove, you want to overthrow the financial system only to take it's place. It is the last attempt of Capitalism to recreate itself into the new world. 1% of people hold 99% of worlds wealth and bitcoin will change that? of course not, it will just further the divide even in the 1%. I guess 3rd world is toast for good.

We (the rest) don't care if early adopters play nice and consider to donate, invest, or be good with their wealth. It is not their place/right to make these decisions. Democracy is not run on a geek circle. You are going to need the full support of the population to withstand the backlash/takeover of the Establishment, and the attitude "Well I was an early adopter, its only fair to be filthy rich" will not help.

What should be done?
1. Satoshi should reveal himself.
2. Block reward must be opened to renegotiation.
3. Install a rolling invalidation of rewards/blocks on the blockchain, ie "forgeting" blocks, this will also help with database size.

2&3 will help with price stability as well as keep the economy rolling, as well as democratizing adoption
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January 04, 2014, 01:45:30 AM
 #94

OP's warning is on the point. We don't have the luxury not to take proactive action to solve the early adopter problem, It is not for the next generation to think it through, attitude I have seen in many posts, or deal with the problems as the come along, it must be solved yesterday.

As it stands Bitcoin is Capitalism at its purest form, you have Money, and Machines that Generates Money, plus a cartel that gatekeeps transactions: a Banker's wet dream. Which is all that most people here secretly cove, you want to overthrow the financial system only to take it's place. It is the last attempt of Capitalism to recreate itself into the new world. 1% of people hold 99% of worlds wealth and bitcoin will change that? of course not, it will just further the divide even in the 1%. I guess 3rd world is toast for good.

We (the rest) don't care if early adopters play nice and consider to donate, invest, or be good with their wealth. It is not their place/right to make these decisions. Democracy is not run on a geek circle. You are going to need the full support of the population to withstand the backlash/takeover of the Establishment, and the attitude "Well I was an early adopter, its only fair to be filthy rich" will not help.

What should be done?
1. Satoshi should reveal himself.
2. Block reward must be opened to renegotiation.
3. Install a rolling invalidation of rewards/blocks on the blockchain, ie "forgeting" blocks, this will also help with database size.

2&3 will help with price stability as well as keep the economy rolling, as well as democratizing adoption


The OP has an investigated his imagination in a Dystopian Future, and used little creativity to solve problems.

1) Bitcoin is more like a voluntary wealth redistribution virus (don't use it if you think it is like rat poison)
2) Bitcoin is more likely a bankers nightmare, no fractional reserve banking.
3) if it ever stops serving the majority, switch to an aultcoin, or start one that is created on a normal distribution curve as apposed to the step function that rewords early adopters disproportionately.
4) you can always erode the wealth of the ultra rich by saving (the rich can only earn by providing value to encourage you to spend) as apposed to saving in fiat you wealth is eroded by inflation that benefits the 1% who borrow new money into existences mechanize production or distribution thus robbing you of productivity in the now.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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January 04, 2014, 07:59:18 AM
 #95



I have seen the future of Bitcoin, and it is bleak.

The Promise of Bitcoin

If you were to peak into my bedroom at night (please don’t), there’s a good chance you would see my wife sleeping soundly while I stare at the ceiling, running thought experiments about where Bitcoin is going. Like many other people, I have come to the conclusion that distributed currencies like Bitcoin are going to eventually be recognized as the most important technological innovation of the decade, if not the century. It seems clear to me that the rise of distributed currencies presents the biggest (and riskiest) investment opportunity I am likely to see in my lifetime; perhaps in a thousand lifetimes. It is critically important to understand where Bitcoin is going, and I am determined to do so.

My hundreds of hours of thought experiments have been productive. I published a whitepaper about the future of Bitcoin, and because of that paper I’ll have the great privilege of sitting on the “Bitcoin in the Future” panel at the 2013 Bitcoin Conference in San Jose. Through these years of deliberation I have satisfied myself that the answer to the “Trillion Dollar Question” of whether any form of distributed currency can ever achieve a stable price, is “yes”. (There are three ways this will happen, as I have written elsewhere).

I have been predicting for years that the world’s first trillionaire by USD valuation will be an early investor in distributed currency — quite possibly Satoshi Nakamoto, whoever he/she/it/they may be. I own a few bitcoins, and I intend to keep them until I find a more attractive investment (that is, I want to invest in whatever replaces bitcoin or builds on top of it).

To many people, this sounds like an implausibly rosy future, and for early adopters that is true — it feels like winning the lottery every day. However, for most other people, the ascendancy of distributed currency systems will feel like a disaster. If you are involved in Bitcoin now, you should prepare to be almost universally hated someday.

In this article, we will examine a few simple thought experiments to show how the rise of distributed currencies such as bitcoin could create massive social upheaval due to governments’ rapidly degrading capability to fulfill their core functions of taxation and regulation of commerce. We’ll see how the end result could be extremely painful for common citizens due to previously unimaginable wealth disparities, hyperinflation of previously stable government-backed fiat currencies, and a greatly empowered criminal class.

The Bleak Future of Fiat Currencies

Anarchists and hardcore libertarians love Bitcoin, but most people outside those circles are not in favor of completely doing away with their government. If you aren’t part of a fringe political movement, chances are there is something the government does that you like, whether it’s handing out entitlement money, killing enemies, putting people in prison, building dams and roads, funding research, or any number of other things. The government can do these things because the government can collect taxes, which in turn they can do because the flows of money are highly regulated and tracked at every level. Whether you are collecting a paycheck, buying furniture, cashing out investments, or simply dying and leaving an inheritance, the government knows about it and takes a cut.

For our first thought experiment, let’s imagine a world where distributed currencies like bitcoin have become wildly successful due to technological advances which make them easy to use and completely stable. In this world government-issued money is as good as dead. It may take a few years for everyone to realize it, but there will come a point when the ever-increasing outflows of money from fiat money into untaxable, unseizable decentralized currency will reach a tipping point, and we’ll have a financial panic like the world has never seen. Frightened lawmakers and banks will try to stop people from cashing out, but that will just increase the panic. Those who don’t get out before the door closes will be in dire straits indeed. This is the ultimate bank run — the run on the world’s central banks, and who could possibly step in and restore order?

When people think of hyperinflation, they usually envision a Zimbabwean printing press running around the clock in the dark corner of a mud hut, putting ever more zeroes on cheap paper. Has it ever occurred to you that hyperinflation can happen while the printing presses are off? The value of the money in your pocket is not ultimately guaranteed by your government, but by simple supply and demand. The government controls the supply, and we control the demand. If demand falls precipitously, we have hyperinflation without ever needing to print another dollar or euro. If people start fleeing government currencies en masse, hyperinflation is the inevitable result.

The good news is that you don’t need to worry about current government debt in this scenario. If government currencies lose their value rapidly, debts which previously seemed overwhelming suddenly become much more manageable. Perhaps your debt-laden government will someday completely pay off it’s national debt by simply selling a few gold bars and a couple national parks.

The Bleak Future of Retirement

For our next thought experiment, let’s consider what will happen to Grandma. For her whole life, she has carefully saved her money, and now she is living in reasonable comfort. She gets money and health care from the government, and she has her own savings to fall back on. Grandma has done everything right, including taking her savings out of the stock market; most of her savings are now invested in the safest asset known to man: U.S. Treasury Bonds.

Rather suddenly, things start to go wrong. At the same time all her expenses start skyrocketing, the government has a liquidity crisis; they are having trouble collecting taxes and can no longer pay for her health care. Her savings are still “safe” in the sense that she will get U.S. Dollars out of them, but that is little comfort when those dollars which should have lasted years can barely pay her weekly grocery bill.

Grandma’s retirement has been sabotaged by the rise of a new kind of money that she can’t even begin to understand. All she knows is that she did everything right, and now she has nothing.

The Bleak Future Wealth Disparities

All the world’s wealth has essentially been stolen, but by whom? By you, dear reader.

We’ll be very lucky if we aren’t all rounded up and summarily executed. Thankfully, you’ll be able to use some of that money to purchase protection, but I’m not at all convinced that it will be enough. A wrathful government backed by an enraged population is a fearful enemy. Satoshi foresaw this long ago, and I doubt he/she/it/they will ever voluntarily come into the light.

If there are enough of us, and we are very careful and charming, we may be physically safe. However, the massive displacement of wealth will still have some awful consequences. People argue all the time about the societal benefits and drawbacks of wealth disparities, and the rise of distributed currencies will create disparities that previously did not seem possible. It seems clear that there will be a lot of jobs created by the new wealthy, but whether the average person is better off or not, one thing is sure to rise: resentment. What right do we have to take all the wealth of the world and put it in our pockets? Sure, a nifty new idea should pay off for early visionaries, but nobody ever expected a new idea to suck all the wealth out of the world like a financial black hole!

The Bleak Future of Law Enforcement

This is where things get really bleak. Currently distributed currencies facilitate money laundering, black market commerce (the Silk Road), and insider trading (TorBroker). These applications in their current form are just a snowflake on the tip of the iceberg. Not only will they get MUCH bigger, but we will see applications which are much less savory. Historically, the “Dark Net” accessible by Tor and private networks has been nothing more than a hidey-hole for illegal files and a hangout for paranoid schizophrenics, but it is quickly becoming the platform of choice for large-scale illegal commerce.

For this thought experiment, we will imagine that your child has been kidnapped and put up for sale on “TorSlaver”. Their business plan is to kidnap children and sell them to the highest bidder, whether parent or pedophile. The winning bidder is sent the location of the child, probably bound and gagged and dumped somewhere. As long as they don’t get caught doing the kidnapping, the kidnappers can do this again and again with complete impunity. Once someone proves it can be done, copycats will come out of the woodwork, and it won’t matter if the first mover gets caught.

As a parent of three small children, I cannot describe to you how awful this makes me feel. I have always been a very reluctant bitcoin investor, for this very reason. I don’t invest in bitcoin because I think it will bring about a happy utopian world. Quite the opposite. I invest in bitcoin because the rise of distributed currency is inevitable, and owning some bitcoins seems to be the best way to prepare for the chaos ahead. And just maybe, if I position myself correctly, I can make things a little less awful.

The Government Strikes Back

Does anyone really expect the government to sit back quietly and watch while their currency is debased, terrorism is funded, and children are kidnapped? The only question is when and how they will strike back against these forces. While the government does have a lot of options, ultimately those options only slow things down. At some point, we collectively with our governments face a difficult choice between trying to survive this deadly storm or attempting to destroy all decentralized computer networks (including the internet). The former seems unthinkable, the latter, impossible.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this chaos gives rise to a strong, centralized, one-world government which gets its revenues by tightly reigning in freedom of commerce in order to collect taxes. For instance, I will not be surprised to see a requirement someday that every person buying or selling have an implant which tightly binds their identity to the sale. Perhaps the implant will even be located on the back of the right hand or the forehead! This may seem repugnant to you now, but wait until you have lived in the storm for a while before you call it impossible. The natural reaction to the deadly chaos of decentralized currency is for the populace to embrace increasingly centralized controls on commerce. The battle lines are only just starting to be drawn, and your guess is as good as mine for how it will play out.

What Should We Do?

We need people thinking about this. I’ll admit that many of the things I wrote about may not happen at all, or may happen very differently than I imagine. However, there are lots of people touting the fantastic benefits that bitcoin and its children can give us, and I don’t see anybody talking about how bad things could potentially get.

We need solutions. When the government finally starts taking decentralized currency seriously, it will probably be doing so in a state of panic. We need to be advising governments now about how they can survive the storm and protect their populace. We need to think of ways the government can pay for its most critical operations, and what legislation makes sense to mitigate these new risks while preserving as much freedom as we can.

The Lifeboat Foundation is attempting to provide this thinking, advice, and solutions. They are already getting ready for a new advisory board, culled from computer scientists, economists, and bitcoin experts. If you make a fortune from your investments in decentralized currency, I urge you to consider how you can help all the people harmed by these rapid changes. Many bitcoin enthusiasts seem to think they will get to retire on a private island with a harem and a stable of Italian sports cars. This is wrong. Bitcoin investors need to someday become bitcoin philanthropists, and our giving needs to be targeted at helping all the people we have harmed. The Lifeboat Foundation is one option, but I’m sure there will be others.

I first published this article on the blog of the Lifeboat Foundation: http://lifeboat.com/blog/2013/04/bitcoins-dystopian-future
Reddit version is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cos8x/bitcoins_dystopian_future/

tl;dr: Wildly successful distributed currencies could hurt a lot of people.


OP
Couple things,

1) take a hint from your wife and catch some shut-eye...  Grin

2) The past generation has always fucked the future generation and rarely thought about it and even less rarely made amends... fuck em, survival of the fittest. People who have had children already and those children are now adults need to realize that they have had their turn. As soon as your offspring are grown it's time to step aside and allow them to direct the course of history. This 2-generations-deep-grey-hair-voting-majority-bullshit needs to end. Dead weight. Angry

3) The world has never changed, civilizations have never changed. The Golden rule has always applied ($, decisions, dissemination of information, and influence)... Always will.... Govt is bought and sold and will continue that way for all of time. If I can have my time at the bargaining table I'll take it. Don't be apologetic for being on the side of history. Your government isn't.... neither are their financiers....  Cool

4) No matter how utopian  or anarchist or libertarian a vision (or etc. etc.) one has, there is always someone (typically more than one) in that same crowd that is just a bit less so. In an attempt to uphold the vision the outlyer will have their rights trampled and a self defeating cycle begins. Everything naturally regresses to it's mean. See USA in it's current state and her erosion of individual rights in an attempt to maintain those same rights and liberties.

Flattered if you read this far... Great read, well written and I like your perspective! It really gives astounding insight into one's psyche. You should write a novel or screen play! I hope you've enjoyed my satirical/grim play on this perspective/loose retort, not anywhere near the writing skill you poses though and eloquent way of putting it all in text.  Wink

Thanks!
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January 04, 2014, 03:01:31 PM
 #96

snip

The OP has an investigated his imagination in a Dystopian Future, and used little creativity to solve problems.

1) Bitcoin is more like a voluntary wealth redistribution virus (don't use it if you think it is like rat poison)
2) Bitcoin is more likely a bankers nightmare, no fractional reserve banking.
3) if it ever stops serving the majority, switch to an aultcoin, or start one that is created on a normal distribution curve as apposed to the step function that rewords early adopters disproportionately.
4) you can always erode the wealth of the ultra rich by saving (the rich can only earn by providing value to encourage you to spend) as apposed to saving in fiat you wealth is eroded by inflation that benefits the 1% who borrow new money into existences mechanize production or distribution thus robbing you of productivity in the now.

1. virus <> voluntary
2. fractional reserve is money out of thin air, explain how bitcoin differs
3. just like greece can exit euro, that easy
4. if you follow the story of asic manufacturing you will see what deflation means to a manufacturing process.
thaaanos
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January 04, 2014, 04:47:42 PM
 #97

Bitcoin's deflationary quality if unchanged will bring Trade to a halt, that's basic economics, and independent of how many decimal places can exist in a number. Nobody in his right state of mind wants Trade to get hurt. So before that happens, National Security will kick in and Patends, Licences and  bitcoin infrastructure will be seized and protocol will be changed.
IE I see the FBI raid the biggest pools and alter the miner to ignore transactions that dont divert fees to a FED wallet, thats all they have to do, not bureucratic shit, no forms, no checks, just a hardcoded VAT. More countries will follow and boundaries will be raised before you know it. Effectively splitting the transaction tree into a forest, without hurting the blockchain.
fog-or-vos
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January 04, 2014, 05:18:39 PM
 #98

The deflationary arguments are not warranted imo. I would actually spend more. knowing that I can buy more tomorrow without need to have as much in nominal terms.


We are so brainwashed into believing that a deflationary system cant work because we have been drilled with/by the current interests. The current system is on the brink of collapse. Our govts ARE at the level of Zimbabwe inflation but it's not in the units that you can hold in your hand.... Bailouts,  QE and the fact that govts are pretty much doing this in parity makes it a little less visible....

Deflation has been used as a scapegoat at every opportunity of the current failures. The inflationary system is only in place because it is necessitated by an independent central banking system as a business model. The inflationary systems have only been in place since the plans to create private central banks were thought up.
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January 04, 2014, 05:33:49 PM
 #99

Like mild deflation would stop people from wanting that new tech and car. Right  Undecided

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January 04, 2014, 05:36:02 PM
 #100

Bitcoin's deflationary quality if unchanged will bring Trade to a halt, that's basic economics, and independent of how many decimal places can exist in a number. Nobody in his right state of mind wants Trade to get hurt. So before that happens, National Security will kick in and Patends, Licences and  bitcoin infrastructure will be seized and protocol will be changed.
IE I see the FBI raid the biggest pools and alter the miner to ignore transactions that dont divert fees to a FED wallet, thats all they have to do, not bureucratic shit, no forms, no checks, just a hardcoded VAT. More countries will follow and boundaries will be raised before you know it. Effectively splitting the transaction tree into a forest, without hurting the blockchain.


I think you are overestimating the size of bitcoin infrastructure in your country comparing to world-wide infrastructure.
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