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Author Topic: Bitcoin is a flawed technology  (Read 4664 times)
xavier
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April 20, 2013, 01:23:44 AM
 #1

Bitcoin relies on distributing a file with unlimited size to every single node in the network in order to function. Bitcoin therefore would theoretically succeed if the resources required for storing and transmitting such an unlimited file size were also unlimited.

However, its clear that for the foreseeable future, storage is not unlimited, and also bandwidth is not unlimited. The unlimited size of the blockchain; the fact that anybody can add transactions for no cost, eg. SDice. The overhead with distributing an unlimited sized file to every node.

Moore's law is cited in Satoshi's paper as being a fundamental tenet on how the bitcoin system works. Quoting from Satoshi's paper:

Quote
If we suppose blocks are generated every 10 minutes, 80 bytes * 6 * 24 * 365 = 4.2MB per year. With computer systems typically selling with 2GB of RAM as of 2008, and Moore's Law predicting current growth of 1.2GB per year, storage should not be a problem even if the block headers must be kept in
memory

However, "Moore's law" is not a law at all. It was just an observation made 40 years ago that the price of storage would decrease for the foreseeable future - that we were entering an era of microcomputing. It cannot hold true forever. There is a hard limit to how much information can be stored on a chip.  Its just we haven't reached it.

Therefore the concept of distributing an unlimited sized file to every node on the network is fundamentally not sustainable or economical - READ: flawed. Storage will not be getting cheaper forever but the principle underlying bitcoin is for the filesize of the blockchain to be getting bigger forever.

Let's not also forget the bandwidth usage requirement as well, which will also be getting bigger forever.
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April 20, 2013, 01:26:42 AM
 #2

Bitcoin relies on distributing a file with unlimited size to every single node in the network in order to function. Bitcoin therefore would theoretically succeed if the resources required for storing and transmitting such an unlimited file size were also unlimited.

However, its clear that for the foreseeable future, storage is not unlimited, and also bandwidth is not unlimited. The unlimited size of the blockchain; the fact that anybody can add transactions for no cost, eg. SDice. The overhead with distributing an unlimited sized file to every node.

Moore's law is cited in Satoshi's paper as being a fundamental tenet on how the bitcoin system works. Quoting from Satoshi's paper:

Quote
If we suppose blocks are generated every 10 minutes, 80 bytes * 6 * 24 * 365 = 4.2MB per year. With computer systems typically selling with 2GB of RAM as of 2008, and Moore's Law predicting current growth of 1.2GB per year, storage should not be a problem even if the block headers must be kept in
memory

However, "Moore's law" is not a law at all. It was just an observation made 40 years ago that the price of storage would decrease for the foreseeable future - that we were entering an era of microcomputing. It cannot hold true forever. There is a hard limit to how much information can be stored on a chip.  Its just we haven't reached it.

Therefore the concept of distributing an unlimited sized file to every node on the network is fundamentally not sustainable or economical - READ: flawed. Storage will not be getting cheaper forever but the principle underlying bitcoin is for the filesize of the blockchain to be getting bigger forever.

Let's not also forget the bandwidth usage requirement as well, which will also be getting bigger forever.


The requirements of porn means the creation of greater storage will never cease.

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ChanceCoats123
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April 20, 2013, 01:52:52 AM
 #3

I wrote in depth about Moore's law this year for English. And while it's true that it was "just an observation 40 years ago," people have done plot studies of exactly how accurate Moore's law has been (read: The Singularity is Near by Ray Kuzweil).
  In addition to the astounding accuracy of Moore's law, the general implications of the axiom hold true for nearly every technology from the past to the future. Much before Moore's law (or even Gordon Moore himself) existed, there were various paradigms of technology (read: vacuum tubes, transistors, etc.). Because of the obvious path for technological innovation, new technologies will arise and continue to follow Moore's law.

In fact, HP already uses platinum latch technology for printer cartridges and is working on moving that technology over to IC's. And at the same time, companies like Intel and IBM are putting a ton of work into carbon nanotubes. The future is literally unfathomable. Following your closed-minded notions, it's easily understandable why people in the 80's thought computers would always be room-sized.
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April 20, 2013, 01:57:46 AM
 #4

Alright everyone, it's time to quit the experiment.

The OP has discovered something that nobody at any point during the last four years noticed before, and certainly haven't talked about ad nauseam on this forum as well as written wiki pages about.

This problem is clearly insolvable so we should just give up now. I can't believe we missed this the entire time.
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April 20, 2013, 01:59:52 AM
 #5

Bitcoins biggest flaw is that it depends upon the existence of moors law? I'm ok with that im pretty sure moors law is real.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
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April 20, 2013, 02:12:27 AM
 #6

@OP:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=search

Parameters:
Search for: Block chain compression
Search in: Development & Technical Discussion (make sure to check all sub-boards)

Next time you find a flaw (Wild guess says the next thing you hit on will be deflation) Try searching for that, before you post.

Also look on here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page

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mgio
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April 20, 2013, 02:20:39 AM
 #7

You don't actually need a copy of the whole blockchain!

You only need the recent part of it that deals with the bitcoins you own or receiving or storing.

Right now, everyone stores the whole thing because the blockchain is still pretty small.

But as time goes on, it is likely that the average user won't hold the whole blockchain on only large servers or "bank"-like entities will keep the whole thing.
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April 20, 2013, 11:20:45 AM
 #8

I agree with the flawed part, but not on the reason:
You can simply use a safe ewallet like the blockchain.info.
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April 20, 2013, 11:22:30 AM
 #9

- Electrum servers
- Pruned clients (Bitcoin Wallet, Multibit...)
- Unspent coins (pruned blockchain)
.
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.

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April 20, 2013, 11:25:54 AM
 #10

Bitcoin isn't a flawed technology.
It is just not designed to function as a practical system to build a society on. It was meant as a proof of concept and was hijacked by a weird libertarian cargo cult.
rhinospray
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April 20, 2013, 01:13:39 PM
 #11

Bitcoin is an implementation of crypto-currency that has shown that it can work. Bitcoin failed to forecast the consequences of wild speculation (or if it forecasted, then Satoshi is a real evil person) and other problems, but crypto-currencies are still a sound idea. In my opinion, unless all those  problems are solved bitcoin will fail, and other not yet existing crypto-currency, designed to solve those problems, will be able to succeed
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April 20, 2013, 01:24:27 PM
 #12

Bitcoin isn't a flawed technology.
It is just not designed to function as a practical system to build a society on. It was meant as a proof of concept and was hijacked by a weird libertarian cargo cult.
That word has become meaningless in today's Jerry Springer world. This post-modern patriot plutocracy needs a new technology, flawed or not.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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April 20, 2013, 01:54:34 PM
 #13

Bitcoin isn't a flawed technology.
It is just not designed to function as a practical system to build a society on. It was meant as a proof of concept and was hijacked by a weird libertarian cargo cult.
That word has become meaningless in today's Jerry Springer world. This post-modern patriot plutocracy needs a new technology, flawed or not.

That's why the first non-experimental cryptocurrency which comes after Bitcoin has the greatest potential for long term success.
Essentially Bitcoin aims for the same kind of plutocracy we had in the past, that's why it will ultimately become irrelevant.
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April 20, 2013, 02:16:52 PM
 #14

Bitcoin isn't a flawed technology.
It is just not designed to function as a practical system to build a society on. It was meant as a proof of concept and was hijacked by a weird libertarian cargo cult.
That word has become meaningless in today's Jerry Springer world. This post-modern patriot plutocracy needs a new technology, flawed or not.

That's why the first non-experimental cryptocurrency which comes after Bitcoin has the greatest potential for long term success.
Essentially Bitcoin aims for the same kind of plutocracy we had in the past, that's why it will ultimately become irrelevant.
That word has become meaningless in today's quantum-relativistic pot-smoking Sagan-worshipping, post-modern neo-scientism world. Everything is an experiment. Nothing is black and white, right and wrong like they used to be in the good old days. One day people will look back at how good we had it with Bitcoin and troll the message boards about it.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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April 20, 2013, 02:30:46 PM
 #15

Bitcoin isn't a flawed technology.
It is just not designed to function as a practical system to build a society on. It was meant as a proof of concept and was hijacked by a weird libertarian cargo cult.
That word has become meaningless in today's Jerry Springer world. This post-modern patriot plutocracy needs a new technology, flawed or not.

That's why the first non-experimental cryptocurrency which comes after Bitcoin has the greatest potential for long term success.
Essentially Bitcoin aims for the same kind of plutocracy we had in the past, that's why it will ultimately become irrelevant.
That word has become meaningless in today's quantum-relativistic pot-smoking Sagan-worshipping, post-modern neo-scientism world. Everything is an experiment. Nothing is black and white, right and wrong like they used to be in the good old days. One day people will look back at how good we had it with Bitcoin and troll the message boards about it.

Not in reality.
The academic societies of Economics, Computer Science and Mathematics don't really care about our sub-culture here. And the one where it comes to Business and Politics cares even less.
myrkul
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April 20, 2013, 02:52:11 PM
 #16

Bitcoin isn't a flawed technology.
It is just not designed to function as a practical system to build a society on. It was meant as a proof of concept and was hijacked by a weird libertarian cargo cult.
Right. Hijacked.

Quote from: Genesis Block
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

Quote from: Satoshi Nakamoto
[Bitcoin is] very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better with code than with words though.

Quote from: Satoshi Nakamoto
Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.

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April 20, 2013, 02:54:45 PM
 #17

Bitcoin isn't a flawed technology.
It is just not designed to function as a practical system to build a society on. It was meant as a proof of concept and was hijacked by a weird libertarian cargo cult.
Right. Hijacked.

Quote from: Genesis Block
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

Quote from: Satoshi Nakamoto
[Bitcoin is] very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better with code than with words though.

Quote from: Satoshi Nakamoto
Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.

Ok maybe it was Bitcoin which hijacked libertarianism.  Wink
I mean there is a certain appeal of Anarchism and Cyberpunk for Libertarians out there, but that doesn't make it the same thing. (Even if you guys to claim you are Anarcho-Capitalists you are not)
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April 20, 2013, 02:57:41 PM
 #18

Bitcoin isn't a flawed technology.
It is just not designed to function as a practical system to build a society on. It was meant as a proof of concept and was hijacked by a weird libertarian cargo cult.
That word has become meaningless in today's Jerry Springer world. This post-modern patriot plutocracy needs a new technology, flawed or not.

That's why the first non-experimental cryptocurrency which comes after Bitcoin has the greatest potential for long term success.
Essentially Bitcoin aims for the same kind of plutocracy we had in the past, that's why it will ultimately become irrelevant.
That word has become meaningless in today's quantum-relativistic pot-smoking Sagan-worshipping, post-modern neo-scientism world. Everything is an experiment. Nothing is black and white, right and wrong like they used to be in the good old days. One day people will look back at how good we had it with Bitcoin and troll the message boards about it.

Not in reality.
The academic societies of Economics, Computer Science and Mathematics don't really care about our sub-culture here. And the one where it comes to Business and Politics cares even less.
It's wonderful you hold these societies in such high esteem. Surely they will bring your salvation when the barbarians are darkening your doorway as has happened to every civilization in history. Your politicians and economists have the answers you are looking for.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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April 20, 2013, 02:59:17 PM
 #19

It's wonderful you hold these societies in such high esteem. Surely they will bring your salvation when the barbarians are darkening your doorway as has happened to every civilization in history. Your politicians and economists have the answers you are looking for.

Either that or humanity will die out.
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April 20, 2013, 03:04:31 PM
 #20

Geeze. Those bastards even hijacked Satoshi! Devious, these freedom lovers, I tell ya.

More likely you freedom lovers are choosing your own plutocrat.
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