Seasteading

[Elwar]

I just thought I would post a thread here as I have an interest in Bitcoin and seasteading. For those that have never heard of it, seasteading is taking the concept of homesteading to the ocean. If your floating home is 12 nautical miles away from a nation's shore, you are not subject to most of the nation's laws outside of mineral rights, oil, and a few other things. 200 nautical miles from any nation and there is are no national laws.

The idea pushed by the Seasteading Institute is that if we set up several of these seastead communities, we can experiment with new forms of government which can rise or fall based upon how good the new government works. With current governments there is not much competition. With thousands of seasteads competing for residents that can pick up and move to a new seastead, there will be innovation in government.

A sound idea also pushed and generally accepted is that the first seasteads will likely be protected by a host nation initially so that we can work through the engineering constraints first before moving further and further out to sea. The Seasteading Institute has partnered with French Polynesia to begin building the world's first seastead in the protected waters of one of their larger islands. The hope is that they will begin building a large structure some time in 2019. Cost estimates for the initial structure have been somewhere in the $30-$50 million range, with each person needing about $500k to $1 million to live there.

My own plan, which is a slight deviation from their plan, is to start small and modularly (not likely a real word). I would also like to start in a protected waterway initially. But I recognize that most people cannot afford such a high price, and their system does not leave much room for picking up your home and floating to a new seastead if you want to. My goal is to follow the tiny house trend initially and build a small modular floating structure that I can keep under $20k for the base price (plus cost of solar panels, water maker, composting toilet, etc.). Basically enough living space as a small boat, but unlike a boat you can attach these units together for more and more living space as can be afforded.

The rise in the bitcoin price has accelerated my plans and at a certain price point I will likely quit my job and pursue this full time. I am not here looking for funding, investment or even a hand out. I have been working on my design for several years now. I have created computer models of it and will focus next on finding the most structurally sound design as possible while keeping it economical. My initial plan will be to move to a low cost country, likely in Asia (Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc.), maybe French Polynesia (more expensive), and work on building my prototype. I will then move it to the ocean and test in a protected waterway, living in the smallest unit to learn and improve the design.

I will be doing this no matter what. I will share my journey with those that are interested and I hope that once I have something proven, people will want to join my journey and become pioneers in this new industry.

A good forum where seasteading is discussed in grave detail can be found here: https://discuss.seasteading.org/

Do not presume to think that I have not considered some obvious thing about living on the ocean or building a seastead or some knee jerk reaction such as waves or pirates. If you go to the seasteading forum you will see that there have been discussions on there back as far as 2008 (when I first got involved) and there is discussion (mostly arguments) about just about every minute detail that may come up. Mostly discussions about things that do not need to be considered until we are 200 nm from any nation.

What are your thoughts on seasteading? Is it something you would consider doing at some point in your life? What do you like/not like about the concept?


Here is a high level overview of my design that I put together a few years ago. I have since improved upon that initial design but the concept is still similar.
https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/my-viva-vivas-seastead-design/921/2

[BADecker]

I am toying with the idea a little. Do they have chemtrails over there? If they do, we can always float her elsewhere.

There will come a time that the oceans will turn into red algae because of the pollution. At that time living on the land might be better.  

 

[Mometaskers]

This is a very interesting idea. There are some things I'd be concerned about though. How easy would it be to fly of from the stead? Someone might need an emergency procedure done that doctors in the island can't perform requiring a trip back to the mainland. Also, how fast can these thing be moved? If you build them anywhere in the Pacific you'd have to move them a safe distance from projected paths of typhoons. Even far from all the winds and rain of those pesky things, they'd churn up the water, risking the safety of the islands.

[tvbcof]

I like the idea because it seems to appeal to people who I consider to be problems.  To bad none of them will ever get around to actually doing it.

[Elwar]

This is a very interesting idea. There are some things I'd be concerned about though. How easy would it be to fly of from the stead? Someone might need an emergency procedure done that doctors in the island can't perform requiring a trip back to the mainland. Also, how fast can these thing be moved? If you build them anywhere in the Pacific you'd have to move them a safe distance from projected paths of typhoons. Even far from all the winds and rain of those pesky things, they'd churn up the water, risking the safety of the islands.

Typhoons and hurricanes do not exist on the equator.

[Elwar]

I am toying with the idea a little. Do they have chemtrails over there? If they do, we can always float her elsewhere.

There will come a time that the oceans will turn into red algae because of the pollution. At that time living on the land might be better.  

 

It is interesting, I live overseas and hardly ever see chemtrails. When I saw a picture my brother posted back in the US and saw the sky I was surprised by the amount in the sky. I am still not entirely convinced but such things give me pause. I would say that it likely has more to do with the amount of planes in the sky. Being in Afghanistan there are no planes flying over.

Higher concentrations of nitrogen in the water may be a good thing for some of the algae farms, benefiting the seastead. Such proposals have been made to actually help curb water pollution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN0WF6gNbcA

[RJX]

I like the idea. So how would one set about governing an island like this? I remember a simpsons episode where they instated a mandatory conga-line for people that broke the rules.

How do you see that? How would conflicts be resolved?

[coolcoinz]

Just two things I'd miss if I chose to live like that are space to walk around and freedom to buy stuff I need at any moment.
What if you get sick and need medicine that you don't have in stock? What if a panel controller breaks and you are left with no lights and no way to cook food? Where do you get spare parts and how long will it take?

[Mometaskers]

This is a very interesting idea. There are some things I'd be concerned about though. How easy would it be to fly of from the stead? Someone might need an emergency procedure done that doctors in the island can't perform requiring a trip back to the mainland. Also, how fast can these thing be moved? If you build them anywhere in the Pacific you'd have to move them a safe distance from projected paths of typhoons. Even far from all the winds and rain of those pesky things, they'd churn up the water, risking the safety of the islands.

Typhoons and hurricanes do not exist on the equator.

Well I hope it stay that way. I live in the Philippines and we have a love-hate relationship with typhoons so it was the first thing I started to worry about when I thought about living on water. So basically, after the units are made, it could be placed anywhere on that storm-less band? Are you thinking of multiple settlements on that area? I was wondering where would be the perfect spot that's far enough from any country but close enough to fly to a city for medical emergencies.

Just two things I'd miss if I chose to live like that are space to walk around and freedom to buy stuff I need at any moment.
What if you get sick and need medicine that you don't have in stock? What if a panel controller breaks and you are left with no lights and no way to cook food? Where do you get spare parts and how long will it take?

I suppose each unit would have their own solar panels. Maybe they can just hook up their electric stove to it should any central generator fail.

[DrPepperJC]

This is a very interesting idea. There are some things I'd be concerned about though. How easy would it be to fly of from the stead? Someone might need an emergency procedure done that doctors in the island can't perform requiring a trip back to the mainland. Also, how fast can these thing be moved? If you build them anywhere in the Pacific you'd have to move them a safe distance from projected paths of typhoons. Even far from all the winds and rain of those pesky things, they'd churn up the water, risking the safety of the islands.

Typhoons and hurricanes do not exist on the equator.

Well I hope it stay that way. I live in the Philippines and we have a love-hate relationship with typhoons so it was the first thing I started to worry about when I thought about living on water. So basically, after the units are made, it could be placed anywhere on that storm-less band? Are you thinking of multiple settlements on that area? I was wondering where would be the perfect spot that's far enough from any country but close enough to fly to a city for medical emergencies.

Just two things I'd miss if I chose to live like that are space to walk around and freedom to buy stuff I need at any moment.
What if you get sick and need medicine that you don't have in stock? What if a panel controller breaks and you are left with no lights and no way to cook food? Where do you get spare parts and how long will it take?

I suppose each unit would have their own solar panels. Maybe they can just hook up their electric stove to it should any central generator fail.

There are also remote islands on which people live and have long since adapted to such a life. They have other priorities and ways of survival. So I do not see any problems with that.

[BADecker]

Concrete hulled pontoon boats are the cheapest to make. No?   

[Elwar]

I like the idea. So how would one set about governing an island like this? I remember a simpsons episode where they instated a mandatory conga-line for people that broke the rules.

How do you see that? How would conflicts be resolved?

As a libertarian I have my own ideas of governance but considering the first seastead will be within the waters of a nation, there is not much point in deciding now with people who don't actually live on the seastead. I would leave such things to be determined by those who actually take the action of uprooting their lives and live on the seastead. They would know best how things should be run. The initial governance would be under the host nation's governance.

[Elwar]

Just two things I'd miss if I chose to live like that are space to walk around and freedom to buy stuff I need at any moment.
What if you get sick and need medicine that you don't have in stock? What if a panel controller breaks and you are left with no lights and no way to cook food? Where do you get spare parts and how long will it take?

Initially it would be no different than living on a sailboat moored out in the water. You order your parts on Amazon, have it shipped to an address at a harbor address or marina, you take a dingy to the marina and get your supplies.

With many people on the seasteads, there will likely be someone going back and forth almost daily. It would likely be commonplace for people to pick up someone else's mail.

[Elwar]

Concrete hulled pontoon boats are the cheapest to make. No?   

Yes. Concrete is the cheapest and most resilient material against salt water. Most seasteaders choose that as their material. I am fairly certain that The Seasteading Institute plans on creating huge 50 meters platforms out of concrete.

Concrete hulled pontoon boats would be good if they are separate from each other. But concrete is fragile when it bangs against concrete over and over. It would be very difficult to attach them together for a large platform. Anything that would be flexible and strong enough to separate the units would likely degrade in salt water over time.

Steel has been used for ship building for decades. It can also bang against each other over and over without degradation. Also, polyurea adheres best to steel, which is what I would use for coating to protect from salt water.
I address the reason for steel in my design outline: https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/my-viva-vivas-seastead-design/921/2

[BADecker]

Concrete hulled pontoon boats are the cheapest to make. No?   

Yes. Concrete is the cheapest and most resilient material against salt water. Most seasteaders choose that as their material. I am fairly certain that The Seasteading Institute plans on creating huge 50 meters platforms out of concrete.

Concrete hulled pontoon boats would be good if they are separate from each other. But concrete is fragile when it bangs against concrete over and over. It would be very difficult to attach them together for a large platform. Anything that would be flexible and strong enough to separate the units would likely degrade in salt water over time.

Steel has been used for ship building for decades. It can also bang against each other over and over without degradation. Also, polyurea adheres best to steel, which is what I would use for coating to protect from salt water.
I address the reason for steel in my design outline: https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/my-viva-vivas-seastead-design/921/2

I, also, would prefer steel over concrete. But the expense of steel would be prohibitive right now, at the beginning.

I say start small, and use concrete. Gradually convert to steel as people come on board and add their funds.

Of course, if funds aren't a problem, do the steel right from the start.

Set it up this way, with the idea of conversion in mind, so that it is built in a way that can be converted more easily.

[Elwar]

Concrete hulled pontoon boats are the cheapest to make. No?   

Yes. Concrete is the cheapest and most resilient material against salt water. Most seasteaders choose that as their material. I am fairly certain that The Seasteading Institute plans on creating huge 50 meters platforms out of concrete.

Concrete hulled pontoon boats would be good if they are separate from each other. But concrete is fragile when it bangs against concrete over and over. It would be very difficult to attach them together for a large platform. Anything that would be flexible and strong enough to separate the units would likely degrade in salt water over time.

Steel has been used for ship building for decades. It can also bang against each other over and over without degradation. Also, polyurea adheres best to steel, which is what I would use for coating to protect from salt water.
I address the reason for steel in my design outline: https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/my-viva-vivas-seastead-design/921/2

I, also, would prefer steel over concrete. But the expense of steel would be prohibitive right now, at the beginning.

I say start small, and use concrete. Gradually convert to steel as people come on board and add their funds.

Of course, if funds aren't a problem, do the steel right from the start.

Set it up this way, with the idea of conversion in mind, so that it is built in a way that can be converted more easily.

The cost for the steel required for my initial prototype would be less than $10k. For me that is not cost prohibitive.

[21kevin21]

Just two things I'd miss if I chose to live like that are space to walk around and freedom to buy stuff I need at any moment.
What if you get sick and need medicine that you don't have in stock? What if a panel controller breaks and you are left with no lights and no way to cook food? Where do you get spare parts and how long will it take?

Initially it would be no different than living on a sailboat moored out in the water. You order your parts on Amazon, have it shipped to an address at a harbor address or marina, you take a dingy to the marina and get your supplies.

With many people on the seasteads, there will likely be someone going back and forth almost daily. It would likely be commonplace for people to pick up someone else's mail.

If people already begin to live in this way, I am sure that they will take care of the infrastructure and providing them with a large land. After all, this is not a problem in the world of high technology and technological progress.

[Elwar]

I am currently in Tahiti for a seasteading conference. Should be interesting. Spent the last few weeks scoping out Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Thailand seems like it has good potential.

[BADecker]

Seasteading... one of the weakest "nations" on earth.

So weak that they might be ignored as not-a-threat by other nations in a time of war, or they might be taken out as an easy precaution.

Fun, though, until then.

[merchantofzeny]

I am currently in Tahiti for a seasteading conference. Should be interesting. Spent the last few weeks scoping out Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. Thailand seems like it has good potential.

Wow. Thailand seem a good place to build it, that part of SE Asia don't usually get strong typhoons. Might have to consider the conflict over the South China Sea though. You wouldn't want China to think you're a shill for someone and that the project would be used by other claimants to build settlements on the disputed waters.