Seasteading

[Karpeles]

How would you be protected from pirates and such? Most countries can't protect their citizen on land and can't effectvally watch all waterflow.

Also a certain nation in Asia(North Korea) has reports of abducting people from boats in sea, they may attack you and the outside world would never know what happened.

And I don't think the nations and people fleeing to live outside their jurisdiction, I think even the "host" nation would be a threat

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[Spendulus]

Concrete hulled pontoon boats are the cheapest to make. No?   

Yes. Concrete is the cheapest and most resilient material against salt water. Most seasteaders choose that as their material. I am fairly certain that The Seasteading Institute plans on creating huge 50 meters platforms out of concrete.

Concrete hulled pontoon boats would be good if they are separate from each other. But concrete is fragile when it bangs against concrete over and over. It would be very difficult to attach them together for a large platform. Anything that would be flexible and strong enough to separate the units would likely degrade in salt water over time.

Steel has been used for ship building for decades. It can also bang against each other over and over without degradation. Also, polyurea adheres best to steel, which is what I would use for coating to protect from salt water.
I address the reason for steel in my design outline: https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/my-viva-vivas-seastead-design/921/2

The prices for steel, particularly stainless, are not realistic.  Stainless is not available for $500 per ton.

For comparison, look at SCRAP prices here:

http://www.scrapmonster.com/scrap-prices/category/Stainless-Steel/151/1/1

[countryfree]

Thailand is already well developed, you may consider its neighbor, Burma. I was talking to a Vietnamese friend not long ago, and she's investing in Myanmar. The country's opening up, and there is plenty of opportunities for foreigners with cash in hand.

[Elwar]

How would you be protected from pirates and such? Most countries can't protect their citizen on land and can't effectvally watch all waterflow.

Also a certain nation in Asia(North Korea) has reports of abducting people from boats in sea, they may attack you and the outside world would never know what happened.

And I don't think the nations and people fleeing to live outside their jurisdiction, I think even the "host" nation would be a threat

Pirates? We don't develop near nations where pirating is common.

If any project starts out with "we have to be able to defend ourselves against nations" then it's dead from the start. Imagine if everyone considering buying a boat thought "I can't buy this boat, Korea may attack me".

[Xester]

You have a brilliant idea however you can only realize your idea if you have billions of dollars to construct a community floating in the ocean. Aside from creating a community you must also consider the hazards such as big waves and huge storms that your community will be facing. Your structures must be tough to meet those conditions. Lastly, I can say that your ideas are good but I can foretell that you do not have the resources to make your plans a reality.

[BADecker]

You have a brilliant idea however you can only realize your idea if you have billions of dollars to construct a community floating in the ocean. Aside from creating a community you must also consider the hazards such as big waves and huge storms that your community will be facing. Your structures must be tough to meet those conditions. Lastly, I can say that your ideas are good but I can foretell that you do not have the resources to make your plans a reality.

Thank you.

These things have been taken into account.

It is true that without people joining the project, or without some wealthy benefactor, the project will fail. But this is the same for any large project.

This is a positive project. It can be made to work. Join us, add your funds, and secure a place. This is only the beginning.

[BADecker]

[Okurkabinladin]

How would you be protected from pirates and such? Most countries can't protect their citizen on land and can't effectvally watch all waterflow.

Also a certain nation in Asia(North Korea) has reports of abducting people from boats in sea, they may attack you and the outside world would never know what happened.

And I don't think the nations and people fleeing to live outside their jurisdiction, I think even the "host" nation would be a threat

Pirates? We don't develop near nations where pirating is common. Also...guns.

If any project starts out with "we have to be able to defend ourselves against nations" then it's dead from the start. Imagine if everyone considering buying a boat thought "I can't buy this boat, Korea may attack me".

You are not talking about buying a boat, you are talking about starting a country.

Country that cant defend itself from something as meager as third world pirates is no country.

We dont live 1960s anymore.

[BADecker]

How would you be protected from pirates and such? Most countries can't protect their citizen on land and can't effectvally watch all waterflow.

Also a certain nation in Asia(North Korea) has reports of abducting people from boats in sea, they may attack you and the outside world would never know what happened.

And I don't think the nations and people fleeing to live outside their jurisdiction, I think even the "host" nation would be a threat

Pirates? We don't develop near nations where pirating is common. Also...guns.

If any project starts out with "we have to be able to defend ourselves against nations" then it's dead from the start. Imagine if everyone considering buying a boat thought "I can't buy this boat, Korea may attack me".

You are not talking about buying a boat, you are talking about starting a country.

Country that cant defend itself from something as meager as third world pirates is no country.

We dont live 1960s anymore.

But there were way more pirates in the 1860s.   

[BADecker]

So off grid, they're even off land!

Married artists Wayne Adams and Catherine King began building their floating home off Vancouver Island 25 years ago

The compound is always transforming; the couple add structures and repair damage from storms, which can be quite severe

Freedom Cove runs on solar energy and generators and a fresh water system Wayne constructed

The couple make trips to land every two weeks and joke about feeling 'landsick' when they leave their beloved floating paradise

The compound includes gardens, a dance floor, a garage for boats, living and artistic space

Wayne and Catherine operate an open-door policy and invite curious tourists into their home, showing them around Freedom Cove and giving them homemade candles as parting gifts

They say their lifestyle has been a 'learn by doing' experience - teaching them, for example, to anchor Freedom Cove with weighted ropes during storms

Much of their daily routine focuses on maintenance and the couple say they were aware of hardships and risks, but they would not want to live any other way.

Read more at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4500142/Meet-couple-ve-spent-25-years-floating-home.html.

[Okurkabinladin]

How would you be protected from pirates and such? Most countries can't protect their citizen on land and can't effectvally watch all waterflow.

Also a certain nation in Asia(North Korea) has reports of abducting people from boats in sea, they may attack you and the outside world would never know what happened.

And I don't think the nations and people fleeing to live outside their jurisdiction, I think even the "host" nation would be a threat

Pirates? We don't develop near nations where pirating is common. Also...guns.

If any project starts out with "we have to be able to defend ourselves against nations" then it's dead from the start. Imagine if everyone considering buying a boat thought "I can't buy this boat, Korea may attack me".

You are not talking about buying a boat, you are talking about starting a country.

Country that cant defend itself from something as meager as third world pirates is no country.

We dont live 1960s anymore.

But there were way more pirates in the 1860s.   

In the west, sure, man. Sure.

But nobody here mentioned sea steading next to New York or Copenhagen  southern Asia is still quite exciting place.

How many armed and motivated Indonesians would I need to take over this sea steading utopia and turn it into large prison for everybody? Ten? Twenty?



Or lets say, you like Metal Gear Solid and find Zanzibar to be good starting place. Somalians cant read but they sure know how to operate a rpg.



And then what? Call a mama (aka bad ol´ government)? You cant run on a sea and you sure as hell wont outswim speedboats of these guys.

[BADecker]

Actually, this - guns - is exactly a big point why we have the Seasteading idea. What I mean is this.

Look at the guns in the picture 2 posts up. Look what is said about the Somalians: "Somalians cant read but they sure know how to operate a rpg."

I can read. I am reasonably intelligent. But I am not allowed in gun-loving old USA to have an assortment of guns like this. It costs too much. Same said much of western Europe. And that's besides the anti-gun laws.

Seasteading is about freedom. Who gives those Somalians their guns? If they can have them, so can we... and bigger and better guns... out there where nobody denies us our rights.

[otrkid70]

Mel Gibson-Waterworld

[tomwalsh]

This is an interesting concept.

The types of people doing this type of thing tend to be focused on being entirely self sufficient and therefore rejecting anything that comes from existing states.

I would be interested in the idea but would realize the need to import products from neighboring countries.
I would be interested to know how the economy of such a nation would develop.
Maybe the cost of imports would be offset by exports of fish or other aquatic agriculture?
Maybe a digital economy would form, providing service through technology. (although this raises the question of how to connect)

[BADecker]

This is an interesting concept.

The types of people doing this type of thing tend to be focused on being entirely self sufficient and therefore rejecting anything that comes from existing states.

I would be interested in the idea but would realize the need to import products from neighboring countries.
I would be interested to know how the economy of such a nation would develop.
Maybe the cost of imports would be offset by exports of fish or other aquatic agriculture?
Maybe a digital economy would form, providing service through technology. (although this raises the question of how to connect)

One of the reasons that various countries of the world will leave Seasteading alone is, if they mess with us, news will report it, and the world will rebel. As long as we don't do big things, and make big "waves" in the world environment, they will leave us alone... because they know that they can take us out any minute of any day. But, this is the same with anybody in any country in the whole world.

They will take out a threat. As long as we don't become a threat to them, they will let us live, even with our petty self-protection from people like Somalian pirates.

[tomwalsh]

This is an interesting concept.

The types of people doing this type of thing tend to be focused on being entirely self sufficient and therefore rejecting anything that comes from existing states.

I would be interested in the idea but would realize the need to import products from neighboring countries.
I would be interested to know how the economy of such a nation would develop.
Maybe the cost of imports would be offset by exports of fish or other aquatic agriculture?
Maybe a digital economy would form, providing service through technology. (although this raises the question of how to connect)

One of the reasons that various countries of the world will leave Seasteading alone is, if they mess with us, news will report it, and the world will rebel. As long as we don't do big things, and make big "waves" in the world environment, they will leave us alone... because they know that they can take us out any minute of any day. But, this is the same with anybody in any country in the whole world.

They will take out a threat. As long as we don't become a threat to them, they will let us live, even with our petty self-protection from people like Somalian pirates.

What about conflicts between various seasteading colonies? Will these colonies make claim to the sea directly surrounding them much like traditional countries do? These claims could include valuable resources which become an issue of dispute between seasteading colonies.
Maybe a code will need to be written between these outlaw states, like the old code of pirates.

[BADecker]

This is an interesting concept.

The types of people doing this type of thing tend to be focused on being entirely self sufficient and therefore rejecting anything that comes from existing states.

I would be interested in the idea but would realize the need to import products from neighboring countries.
I would be interested to know how the economy of such a nation would develop.
Maybe the cost of imports would be offset by exports of fish or other aquatic agriculture?
Maybe a digital economy would form, providing service through technology. (although this raises the question of how to connect)

One of the reasons that various countries of the world will leave Seasteading alone is, if they mess with us, news will report it, and the world will rebel. As long as we don't do big things, and make big "waves" in the world environment, they will leave us alone... because they know that they can take us out any minute of any day. But, this is the same with anybody in any country in the whole world.

They will take out a threat. As long as we don't become a threat to them, they will let us live, even with our petty self-protection from people like Somalian pirates.

What about conflicts between various seasteading colonies? Will these colonies make claim to the sea directly surrounding them much like traditional countries do? These claims could include valuable resources which become an issue of dispute between seasteading colonies.
Maybe a code will need to be written between these outlaw states, like the old code of pirates.

One thing at a time, por favor. Once we get going, this will be voted on. Sure, some of the "founders" have thought of this. But, at the beginning at least, this will be a thing voted on by the members... after we launch.

[tomwalsh]

This is an interesting concept.

The types of people doing this type of thing tend to be focused on being entirely self sufficient and therefore rejecting anything that comes from existing states.

I would be interested in the idea but would realize the need to import products from neighboring countries.
I would be interested to know how the economy of such a nation would develop.
Maybe the cost of imports would be offset by exports of fish or other aquatic agriculture?
Maybe a digital economy would form, providing service through technology. (although this raises the question of how to connect)

One of the reasons that various countries of the world will leave Seasteading alone is, if they mess with us, news will report it, and the world will rebel. As long as we don't do big things, and make big "waves" in the world environment, they will leave us alone... because they know that they can take us out any minute of any day. But, this is the same with anybody in any country in the whole world.

They will take out a threat. As long as we don't become a threat to them, they will let us live, even with our petty self-protection from people like Somalian pirates.

What about conflicts between various seasteading colonies? Will these colonies make claim to the sea directly surrounding them much like traditional countries do? These claims could include valuable resources which become an issue of dispute between seasteading colonies.
Maybe a code will need to be written between these outlaw states, like the old code of pirates.

One thing at a time, por favor. Once we get going, this will be voted on. Sure, some of the "founders" have thought of this. But, at the beginning at least, this will be a thing voted on by the members... after we launch.

If nothing else this will make a great plot to a movie or book.
I'm thinking Mad Max but on water. 

[Elwar]

I just finished up a week in Tahiti for the first ever Tahitia seasteading conference.

The takeaway is that French Polynesia supports us building the first ever seastead in one of their protected lagoons. They are willing to set up a Special Economic Zone for the seastead that will allow us to have our own economic laws but still require following their criminal laws. So things such as taxes, labor laws, business regulation etc will be handled by us, things such as murder, rape, theft etc will be handled under the current French system. And of course, defense against pirates will fall under the French navy's responsibility.

The legislation should go through by the end of 2017 and then 2018 we can get started. Likely first seastead will be up in 2020.

I will be working with a great team of cryptocurrency experts to see how we can integrate Bitcoin and blockchain technology for things such as title management, equity investments, shares, etc.

[BADecker]

I would suggest a SegWit-like additional database, that contains the literal contracts... but at least a reference to them wherever they might exist... as proof.