Seasteading

[BADecker]

^^^ Whatever you want to pay for it. "Seasteading" is simply a word that holds a deeper meaning for some. Move onto a houseboat, and you just might have seasteading.

How much? Whatever you can or want to spend. Lots of people have taken a nap in a canoe. Move into the canoe out on the ocean, and you just might be seasteading.

Seasteading is not just living on a houseboat. It involves living at least 12 nautical miles outside of a nation's territorial waters.

A house boat cannot just sit in such waters due to the waves.

Ocean Builders seasteads are built on top of a spar which allows you to live above the waves.

As for price...we are targeting $150-$200k. First 20 will get the seastead at cost, and help to decide the way forward for future seasteading.

I agree with the idea of calculating the methods, and implementing something that is practical. I don't necessarily agree with the sovereign part.

Many nations have a 200 mile territorial waters distance.

A collection of houseboats somewhat rigidly attached can take the waves just like a seastead. But what about making them submersible for short periods?

I don't understand the spar. Is it attached to the bottom? Does it float with the bottom merely a flotation device underwater? How is it any different than things that have been attempted or done in the past? What's that famous ocean derrick kingdom called again?

[Febo]

My own plan, which is a slight deviation from their plan, is to start small and modularly (not likely a real word). I would also like to start in a protected waterway initially. But I recognize that most people cannot afford such a high price, and their system does not leave much room for picking up your home and floating to a new seastead if you want to. My goal is to follow the tiny house trend initially and build a small modular floating structure that I can keep under $20k for the base price (plus cost of solar panels, water maker, composting toilet, etc.). Basically enough living space as a small boat, but unlike a boat you can attach these units together for more and more living space as can be afforded.

Ocean Builders seasteads are built on top of a spar which allows you to live above the waves.

As for price...we are targeting $150-$200k. First 20 will get the seastead at cost, and help to decide the way forward for future seasteading.

What the inflation did in less then 2 years


Joke aside, why are this 2 prices so different? Because you miscalculated back then since you did not understand all the problems or because back then house and everything was planed to be smaller or something like that?

[Elwar]

There's the barebones minimum vs fully macked out version.

I figure there will be add ons like A/C, more solar, dynamic positioning system, teak floors, upgraded kitchen, etc.

[Elwar]

There are already boating communities.

At 12nm out you have no laws other than things like resource laws (no drilling for oil, etc.) and no interfering with customs. The law of the sea which prevents "egregious acts" such as murder, slave trade, etc.

[BADecker]

^^^ Whatever you want to pay for it. "Seasteading" is simply a word that holds a deeper meaning for some. Move onto a houseboat, and you just might have seasteading.

How much? Whatever you can or want to spend. Lots of people have taken a nap in a canoe. Move into the canoe out on the ocean, and you just might be seasteading.

Seasteading is not just living on a houseboat. It involves living at least 12 nautical miles outside of a nation's territorial waters.

A house boat cannot just sit in such waters due to the waves.

Ocean Builders seasteads are built on top of a spar which allows you to live above the waves.

As for price...we are targeting $150-$200k. First 20 will get the seastead at cost, and help to decide the way forward for future seasteading.

I agree with the idea of calculating the methods, and implementing something that is practical. I don't necessarily agree with the sovereign part.

Many nations have a 200 mile territorial waters distance.

A collection of houseboats somewhat rigidly attached can take the waves just like a seastead. But what about making them submersible for short periods?

I don't understand the spar. Is it attached to the bottom? Does it float with the bottom merely a flotation device underwater? How is it any different than things that have been attempted or done in the past? What's that famous ocean derrick kingdom called again?

Sovereignty is the whole point of seasteading. There are already boating communities.

At 12nm out you have no laws other than things like resource laws (no drilling for oil, etc.) and no interfering with customs. The law of the sea which prevents "egregious acts" such as murder, slave trade, etc.

Twelve nm out? LOL.

When did the U.S. or any other country ever obey their treaty agreements except when they felt like it?

Ages ago the 200 miles was something for most of the nations of the world. They still have it, but it's called the "exclusive economic zone (EEZ)" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone. Changing the name doesn't change the fact that it really is territorial waters.

[Elwar]

Not everyone is like the US. Seasteading gets downplayed a lot because it likely cannot happen anywhere near the US. Because of hurricanes, huge waves and the US Navy.

There is a world outside of the US though.

[BADecker]

Twelve nm out? LOL.

When did the U.S. or any other country ever obey their treaty agreements except when they felt like it?

Ages ago the 200 miles was something for most of the nations of the world. They still have it, but it's called the "exclusive economic zone (EEZ)" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone. Changing the name doesn't change the fact that it really is territorial waters.

Not everyone is like the US. Seasteading gets downplayed a lot because it likely cannot happen anywhere near the US. Because of hurricanes, huge waves and the US Navy.

There is a world outside of the US though.

You are evading the point. The point was the distance that various nations consider to be territorial waters - even though they often call it by another name.

Not all near US coastal waters are plagued by "hurricanes, huge waves and the US Navy." But if they were, so what? Perhaps you are the very first people who want to live on the ocean in exactly this way. And you certainly have my blessing in your project.


My only point is this. If you can do it alone, all by your little Elwar self, great. You don't really need any kind of agreement with anybody if you can do it this way... as long as you don't injure anybody. But if you need other people to work with you, then you need agreement(s) to determine your relationships.

Let's say that you along with a group of people are doing the seasteading thing, because it is too big for any of you do do it alone. Are you going to stay the course if the rest of the group decides on doing something that is completely against your ideas and ideals? Or do you want a way out built into the agreement... one where you don't lose too much of your investment?

Anybody getting in, needs this kind of agreement... a way out. And more than that, since seasteading is designed with the idea of "nation" in mind, what will be the structure of your government? I'm not asking for an answer. I am only stating that such is as important as the seasteading part itself. You need to be thinking this over as hard as you are thinking seastead, so that you are ready to put it in place when the actual seastead comes into practical being.

[Elwar]

I don't want seastead nations just as I do not want Bitcoin banks.

Collaborate as you see fit or don't collaborate at all.

I'm not saying "let's end nation states" I'm saying, let's create a better alternative.

[BADecker]

I don't want seastead nations just as I do not want Bitcoin banks.

With a seastead, you can be your own nation. Collaborate as you see fit or don't collaborate at all.

I'm not saying "let's end nation states" I'm saying, let's create a better alternative.

All right! Now you are saying it a bit clearer, and more down to the bottom-line basics.

But what will you get when a couple of Chinese battleships slide into your 12mi territorial waters?

[BADecker]

Yeah. I know. A big fuel bill for a minute of battleship pleasure.    

[vapourminer]

I don't want seastead nations just as I do not want Bitcoin banks.

With a seastead, you can be your own nation. Collaborate as you see fit or don't collaborate at all.

I'm not saying "let's end nation states" I'm saying, let's create a better alternative.

All right! Now you are saying it a bit clearer, and more down to the bottom-line basics.

But what will you get when a couple of Chinese battleships slide into your 12mi territorial waters?

It's not what I'll get. It's what they'll get.

a couple scrapes along their hull?

[BADecker]

Actually, Seasteading is the start to something better. How's that? Sea level atmosphere has more oxygen, so you breathe easier.

The goal should be to live under water much of the time. Like in a bubble that is open to the water near the bottom of it. With air pressure keeping the water out. This will force more oxygen into your body and brain, making you to be able to think better, so that you can invent all kinds of neat things.

You would come to the surface only long enough to get the euphoric feeling of less atmosphere. You wouldn't need psychedelic drugs any longer.

[Febo]

Actually, Seasteading is the start to something better.

Exactly there is way more sea then land. So huge opportunity.

[BADecker]

Actually, Seasteading is the start to something better.

Exactly there is way more sea then land. So huge opportunity.

In one of his posts, Elwar said that a Seastead was more like an oil rig than a boat. Consider the Principality of Sealand - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand. It's not really Seasteading in the way Elwar wants. But, it is way more substantial and solid than Seasteading.

A floating oil rig that can be moved wherever is a wonderful concept. And the idea will grow. If some U-boat doesn't blow them out of the water while they are budding, there is a lot of potential.

[Elwar]

Actually, Seasteading is the start to something better.

Exactly there is way more sea then land. So huge opportunity.

In one of his posts, Elwar said that a Seastead was more like an oil rig than a boat. Consider the Principality of Sealand - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand. It's not really Seasteading in the way Elwar wants. But, it is way more substantial and solid than Seasteading.

A floating oil rig that can be moved wherever is a wonderful concept. And the idea will grow. If some U-boat doesn't blow them out of the water while they are budding, there is a lot of potential.

Actually Sealand is the closest thing to a seastead.

[BADecker]

Actually, Seasteading is the start to something better.

Exactly there is way more sea then land. So huge opportunity.

In one of his posts, Elwar said that a Seastead was more like an oil rig than a boat. Consider the Principality of Sealand - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand. It's not really Seasteading in the way Elwar wants. But, it is way more substantial and solid than Seasteading.

A floating oil rig that can be moved wherever is a wonderful concept. And the idea will grow. If some U-boat doesn't blow them out of the water while they are budding, there is a lot of potential.

Actually Sealand is the closest thing to a seastead.

Sealand is only sovereign in as much as nobody is really interested. Same for Seasteading in its beginning. Things will be different when we have 100 billion on earth, and there are seasteads of various kinds all over the place.

[Elwar]

Actually, Seasteading is the start to something better.

Exactly there is way more sea then land. So huge opportunity.

In one of his posts, Elwar said that a Seastead was more like an oil rig than a boat. Consider the Principality of Sealand - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand. It's not really Seasteading in the way Elwar wants. But, it is way more substantial and solid than Seasteading.

A floating oil rig that can be moved wherever is a wonderful concept. And the idea will grow. If some U-boat doesn't blow them out of the water while they are budding, there is a lot of potential.

Actually Sealand is the closest thing to a seastead.

Sealand is only sovereign in as much as nobody is really interested. Same for Seasteading in its beginning. Things will be different when we have 100 billion on earth, and there are seasteads of various kinds all over the place.

Ya, the hope is that early on nobody even pays attention. I wanted to put mine in the water before sharing it with the world because I learned from the Blue Frontiers French Polynesia fiasco that people and the media will paint a scary picture of what seasteading can be. If they see my little house in the water and people try to say it's scary then they'll try to figure out what's so scary about a small floating house in the water.

[BADecker]

^^^




 

[Elwar]

Well, the platform actually acts as a life raft so hopefully it wouldn't look that bad.

Here it is being prepared for putting on the spar.



Unfortunately we had to call off the raising that day since the wind and waves just got worse throughout the day. Still waiting for some perfect waves, should be some time this week.

[BADecker]

Once it is on the spar, will it remain balanced? Or will you have to keep whatever you have on it balanced to keep the whole spar balanced?