Seasteading

[franky1]

badecker. have you already forgot the drama...

elwar pretended he was heading up a project and asking for money from loads of people..
he got into trouble and then pretended he was just a guest of someone elses project that had nothing to do with setting up a micronation and that was not his or anyones intent.

did you truly forget all that stuff
come on for someone so obsessed with knowing the bible you must has some kind of recall..

even funier thing even after the elwar drama. the group elwar associated withstill didnt learn the lessons of elwars drama and continued money grabbing and saying to build plots just 20 miles off shore.
....

i for years have been telling elwar the flaws of his project.
1. sanitation (waste disposal and environmental impact)
2. resource/food sustainability vs importing
3. power generation. living space

the 'pod' that was involved in elwars drama was not even fit for sustainable living. even elwar admits that he didnt stay on it 24/4

i think you really need to look for a different guy to be the head guy for truly viable seasteading. elwar is not it.
and for the whole micronation citizenship wishes and promises and hopes.. forget it. elwar has absolutely no clue

here is the funny. elwar is just looking for new projects for the money grab and that has been pointed out over many years.
all he wants is free vacations where he gets others to pay for them under the guise that they are funding elwar to project manage a future home for the investor.. but elwar treats it like donations with no refund policy.

as for the latest project. its not a micronation of a city. its a boat facility making boats the size of under 10metres in any direction.(the ocean builders link you provided hinted at this by their 15-30 dimensions of the facility doing 3 builds at a time)

if you actually do research you will see elwar and his lil gang are not making micronation cities. they are making boats
but still have not solved all the self sustainability and environmental risks associated.

oh and if you think this project is new and revolutionary.. you need to use google more
google image search: floating houses
then realise that elwar and his friends are not even making that. they are making adapted boats

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[BADecker]

Thanks franky1. I really never knew the details about Elwar. But you had mentioned it before.

You should really look at what they are doing, now. They are setting up a new business to start seasteading. I think their prices are too high, but you have to start somewhere.

Obviously, people have been living on boats for ages. Personally I might like the boat idea better. But if they can make it work, then others can. This is what the world needs... more entrepreneurs.

[Elwar]

Yep, Franky is absolutely correct.

What we are building in Panama are house boats. We are not claiming any micronations, no sovereignty other than what any other boater gets to enjoy.

I am fully hopeful that other companies get out and start building because we would all rather be living on these things rather than building them ourselves but nobody is doing so.

I grew tired of the megasuperstructure seasteads that required hundreds of millions of dollars in funding. I kept screaming to the Blue Frontiers people to "just build something already!". So when I met the aeronautical engineer, Rudiger Koch, down in Thailand who had already begun building I was all on board and was happy to test drive his prototype by living on it and promoting the concept of building more.

I will be the first to say that no seastead should, right now, be fully sustainable. Nor should any house or state or nation. I don't think Hong Kong or Singapore are any less sovereign for not producing their own rice or microprocessors for their computers. I don't think seasteaders should focus on having cattle ranches on the sea.

We are building floating homes. We are setting up manufacturing, moving full steam ahead on producing as many of these homes as possible while trying to keep the prices down. We are skipping the early stages that we would have done in Thailand of contracting out the manufacturing to another company (that would gouge us on cost because they could). We are setting up a full manufacturing facility in Panama with an assembly line for getting these things out the door, all within a marina where we can lower them into the water to a well protected location in an anchorage close to the marina.

This is certainly not seasteading, I will be the first to say that seasteading requires some sort of sovereignty. We proved we can build homes in the open ocean in Thailand. Now we're working out the manufacturing process while focusing on having a comfortable living experience for our customers.

We are not doing any fundraising, creating beautiful pictures of a city that will never exist only to collect millions of dollars while we talk about what we're going to do using that money to try to get more millions. We're using our own money to build these SeaPods. We won't collect any money until after our first one is built and people can come down and walk around in it and try it out for themselves. Our goal is building these homes with one or two per month, so if anyone puts down their 20% deposit, they should be able to move in within a month. Ocean Builders is currently taking $100 refundable deposits for people to indicate their interest and reserve their place in line.
Previously we just had a check box on our website for people to indicate their willingness to buy (so we could gauge interest on whether to move forward with building a manufacturing site), while we had over 200 people indicate that they wanted to buy one, we decided to put in the refundable deposit option (following Tesla's example as they did with the Cybertruck) so that we could get a better indication of how serious people are about buying.

Once we have a community living on the water, we will be working with them on future plans. We already have a 1/3rd scale prototype for the open ocean. We are following flagging laws in Panama before putting that prototype in the open sea. We already tested a 1/3 scale prototype for the shallow water version. It's sitting in the marina right now.

Note that in the https://ocean.builders/ocean-builders-manufacturing-facility-gets-the-first-pour/ website, they are also talking about building a landstead. What does this all mean for the future?

We will be building LandPods.
As we began working on these, Ocean Builders' CEO ran into a wealthy land owner in Panama that had plans to build an eco-resort at his coffee plantation. He had plans for some tree houses but after seeing our design said he wanted our homes instead. So we are working with him to build about 10 of them for his resort. With the center tube only being 1.6m diameter, it's great for putting them on the ground in a place where a normal home would not do well, saving the trees from being cut down to make room for the home while being high enough to look out over the trees or be among the treetops with the parrots, monkeys and sloths. His order is helping us to kick start the build process knowing we have orders and can move forward. The design is almost exactly the same so as we move forward on those orders we can replicate the effort for our floating homes.


Whatever happened in Thailand, we proved that you can live on a floating home in middle of the ocean. The genie is out of the bottle on that one. The ocean is the next frontier. Not even the most corrupt navy can take away that fact.

[Febo]

...  they are also talking about building a landstead. What does this all mean for the future?

I noticed that yesterday when checking their website. Why not to offer them. Maybe there will be market for them maybe not. More that they will sell cheaper will be average costs and at the end the price. So land "sea" steads can make seasteads cheaper.

[BADecker]

...  they are also talking about building a landstead. What does this all mean for the future?

I noticed that yesterday when checking their website. Why not to offer them. Maybe there will be market for them maybe not. More that they will sell cheaper will be average costs and at the end the price. So land "sea" steads can make seasteads cheaper.

There it is, right above your post. Elwar says it himself:

We will be building LandPods.
As we began working on these, Ocean Builders' CEO ran into a wealthy land owner in Panama that had plans to build an eco-resort at his coffee plantation. He had plans for some tree houses but after seeing our design said he wanted our homes instead. So we are working with him to build about 10 of them for his resort. With the center tube only being 1.6m diameter, it's great for putting them on the ground in a place where a normal home would not do well, saving the trees from being cut down to make room for the home while being high enough to look out over the trees or be among the treetops with the parrots, monkeys and sloths. His order is helping us to kick start the build process knowing we have orders and can move forward. The design is almost exactly the same so as we move forward on those orders we can replicate the effort for our floating homes.

I spend too much time talking in things like this forum. I should be out there doing, right along with Elwar.

[franky1]

elwar. it might have taken you 5 years to come to your senses of things i knew back then. but it seems your finally realising you were over promising and under delivering.

as for the 'landstead'
i hope you have not just sold the land owner an idea. have you even thought about things like if the pods are pre-fabbed in a factory. how the cranes and trucks are going to get between the tree's to position it all.
i cant see a group of men 'heave hoing' a 1.6m diameter and 20-40metre tall metal pole on their shoulders weaving in between tree's and over rocks and roots..

after all to be 'all around parrots, monkeys and sloths' indicate that its more of a forest land and not just some garden/woodland area'

again. electric and sanitation (fresh water/sewage) seem to be area's you are yet again not thinking about.
people carrying in freshwater and carrying out waste..

obviously if the landpod is going to be powered (presuming solar) the pod would nee to be above a tree canopy.
seems you just keep skipping over the basics

and all that it would be used for is just 'watch towers' for wild life fans to use for half a day tour

[Febo]

We already have a 1/3rd scale prototype for the open ocean. We are following flagging laws in Panama before putting that prototype in the open sea. We already tested a 1/3 scale prototype for the shallow water version. It's sitting in the marina right now.

Are there any pictures of this 1/3rd scale prototype or a video?  I imagine this is just a shell of a seapod or I totally misunderstood you what this prototype is?

[Elwar]

you are yet again not thinking about.

source of your all too common statement?

[Elwar]

We already have a 1/3rd scale prototype for the open ocean. We are following flagging laws in Panama before putting that prototype in the open sea. We already tested a 1/3 scale prototype for the shallow water version. It's sitting in the marina right now.

Are there any pictures of this 1/3rd scale prototype or a video?  I imagine this is just a shell of a seapod or I totally misunderstood you what this prototype is?

We have a lot of pictures and video but not much on the web yet.

You can see it in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzFxKUxx9nE

We only did the 1/3rd scale of the spar to test the stability. We will build a scale of the pod portion in the next few weeks when we get the 3D printer installed.

[franky1]

you are yet again not thinking about.

source of your all too common statement?

your post history for one.

also look at the video you just linked in previous post. at 13 seconds where your fortlifting the spire into the water. all looks good from an open field into the open water.. but just try doing the same thing in a deep forest. you know as you said yourself surrounded by trees and animals and without needing to cut down tree's..

id love to see how you get through the forest with that one

but one very common thing you keep missing is the utilities. water, sewerage and electric.

last time i checked your thailand pod was not even solar powered
even when the army turned up.. no solar power to actually be a running 'home'
https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/10216091d/c7a247c6/thai-navy-dismantles-a-seastead-floating-living-platform-off-phuket-sea-andaman-sea-thailand-shutterstock-editorial-10216091d.jpg

but atleast you admitted . only after you got caught. that you never intended it to be a home or seastead or micronation.. yet post history and blogs and videos before getting caught said the opposite.

[Elwar]

but one very common thing you keep missing is the utilities. water, sewerage and electric.

Again...source?

last time i checked your thailand pod was not even solar powered
even when the army turned up.. no solar power to actually be a running 'home'
https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/10216091d/c7a247c6/thai-navy-dismantles-a-seastead-floating-living-platform-off-phuket-sea-andaman-sea-thailand-shutterstock-editorial-10216091d.jpg

You literally just posted a picture of the solar panels on top of the seastead (which ran our water maker which you keep going on and on about).

6 240 Watt panels connected to 6 12V marine batteries, plenty of energy for our refrigerator, lights, water pump, water maker and wall sockets for charging our phones, laptops, repeater (for 22Mbps Internet) and marine radios.


But you do not listen so I am going back to ignoring you and your "you (and the many people working on this project) aren't thinking about "<insert things we're constantly thinking about here>" due to not explaining every little thing to me online (even though I have no intention of ever supporting the project and will only ignore or twist anything you say and make up my own BS to fit my narrative).

[BADecker]

Elwar, you are a breath of fresh air in an otherwise stagnant forum.

[franky1]

last time i checked your thailand pod was not even solar powered
even when the army turned up.. no solar power to actually be a running 'home'
https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/10216091d/c7a247c6/thai-navy-dismantles-a-seastead-floating-living-platform-off-phuket-sea-andaman-sea-thailand-shutterstock-editorial-10216091d.jpg

You literally just posted a picture of the solar panels on top of the seastead (which ran our water maker which you keep going on and on about).

6 240 Watt panels connected to 6 12V marine batteries, plenty of energy for our refrigerator, lights, water pump, water maker and wall sockets for charging our phones, laptops, repeater (for 22Mbps Internet) and marine radios.

what i saw was grating and a fuel powered blue generator
but it was pretty interesting in another youtube video how you tried to denounce how involved you were by saying it never intended to be  seastead/micronation. it wasnt your project and how you were just a guineapig couple who volunteerd to stay there now and again

anyway. all i see is you now doing it all over again promising these glamorous pods as homes. but then i see you later retract statements and say nah they just nature watching posts for people to hire for the day as they were never intended to meet 'living' standards

i know you cant see the wood through the trees or you would not even even done concept art of your CGI pods in the middle of a tight wooded area. literally how you gonna gets all that stuff between the trees.
go on retract statements of middle of woodland amungst nature and say how its suddenly only gonna be at the edge of wildlife looking in

i know all your interested in is making money. but can you atleast not oversell things as things they will never become what originally promoted as
do you atleast admit your other mistakes of the past like trying to fundraise to buy a large boat for multiple millions where the end purpose was just going to be for your 'organisation' to have meetings on..

and all the proposals for micronations

[BADecker]

last time i checked your thailand pod was not even solar powered
even when the army turned up.. no solar power to actually be a running 'home'
https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/10216091d/c7a247c6/thai-navy-dismantles-a-seastead-floating-living-platform-off-phuket-sea-andaman-sea-thailand-shutterstock-editorial-10216091d.jpg

You literally just posted a picture of the solar panels on top of the seastead (which ran our water maker which you keep going on and on about).

6 240 Watt panels connected to 6 12V marine batteries, plenty of energy for our refrigerator, lights, water pump, water maker and wall sockets for charging our phones, laptops, repeater (for 22Mbps Internet) and marine radios.

what i saw was grating and a fuel powered blue generator
but it was pretty interesting in another youtube video how you tried to denounce how involved you were by saying it never intended to be  seastead/micronation. it wasnt your project and how you were just a guineapig couple who volunteerd to stay there now and again

anyway. all i see is you now doing it all over again promising these glamorous pods as homes. but then i see you later retract statements and say nah they just nature watching posts for people to hire for the day as they were never intended to meet 'living' standards

i know you cant see the wood through the trees or you would not even even done concept art of your CGI pods in the middle of a tight wooded area. literally how you gonna gets all that stuff between the trees.
go on retract statements of middle of woodland amungst nature and say how its suddenly only gonna be at the edge of wildlife looking in

i know all your interested in is making money. but can you atleast not oversell things as things they will never become what originally promoted as
do you atleast admit your other mistakes of the past like trying to fundraise to buy a large boat for multiple millions where the end purpose was just going to be for your 'organisation' to have meetings on..

and all the proposals for micronations

You are missing Elwar's point. His involvement has to do with not being involved formally. This means, that as far as he will say, and that as far as anybody in the public knows, he isn't involved. What he does in private is for him and his privacy to know.

[franky1]

and your missing the point. for years. elwar has been on a money grabbing effort.. which affects other people. so elwars private life has nothing to do with anything. its what he is pubicly doing and proposing and trying to show off as being involved an and then retracting later and pretending no promises were made.

elwar is following similar steps as CSW pretending to be one thing. but never delivering but then keepp on trying to raise money


i have nothing against TRUE pioneers of TRUE seastead projects.
but greedy money grabbing snake water salesmen i have something against

[BADecker]

and your missing the point. for years. elwar has been on a money grabbing effort.. which affects other people. so elwars private life has nothing to do with anything. its what he is pubicly doing and proposing and trying to show off as being involved an and then retracting later and pretending no promises were made.

elwar is following similar steps as CSW pretending to be one thing. but never delivering but then keepp on trying to raise money


i have nothing against TRUE pioneers of TRUE seastead projects.
but greedy money grabbing snake water salesmen i have something against

How in the world dense are you? People work at Walmart for money. Why? Because they aren't smart enough to "grab" their money in a different way. You don't think that they are there because they like it, do you?

Why not Elwar working in a private business that he isn't telling us that he even has? Formally we don't know that he is working in a private business. If it's public, why don't you show us the paperwork from a government that shows he is actively in a public business? If he is a crook, why don't you show the lawsuits or court judgements against him? All you do is blab.

What about you and me? Are you on some form of money grab by talking about other people being on a money grab? Maybe you are filthy rich and don't care to do this. I sure could use a little more money. But my private info is private. And you can guess all day long about what my private stuff is. But you really should have something legitimate to back it up, shouldn't you.

If Elwar is working a public business, he will have his shingle out. So what? Lots of people are doing this. Lots of people have made mistakes. Some have paid for their mistakes; others haven't paid. In fact, the whole banking industry is ripping everybody off through inflation and creations of new money that they call loans all the time. But you want to pick on poor, little Elwar.

Are you jealous of Elwar that he lived in freedom for a short time in international waters? Are you jealous of him that he was able to escape a whole load of Thailand government pirates who came after him? Are you envious that he travels? Do you think he feels good that his operations fell through, and that he barely escaped with his life?

I feel kinda sorry for you. You seem to be tied to a bitter life of perpetual slavery. Over in the country of Western Sahara, the informal slaves over their have been in bondage to their masters' houses for generations. They don't even know that there is anything else other than slavery. That's how deeply it is embedded in them. But you, at least, can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

You, at least, have an inkling that there is freedom available. You sorta know what it looks like. Why don't you become free rather than picking on other people who are free? You are so funny. You pick on the freedom of other people, yet use your freedom to remain in bondage. Get a life!

[franky1]

lawsuits... hmm.. thai government want him..
trouble.. the military confiscated the pod

as for living free.. yea he promoted himself as one thing to get money from people but without any real understanding of what hewas promising to offer and from the looks of it no intention to actually offer it.

the difference between a walmart worker and elwar is that people know what they are getting for their money. they see a price they go to the checkout and they pay for it.  as for what elwar pretends of offer. people dont get what they are offered, all while he spends their money on vacations.

its called lack of morals and ethics

i personally travel alot. and i do ETHICAL business.. i am even mindful to not promote my business dealings on this forum because i have the ability to actually not want to promote stuff.
my business dealings are legit and ethical.. i know you dont understand those concepts. but it might help you to try learning them.

i am not jealous or envious. i am more of the kind of person that gets pissed off with unethical scammers and morons. pissed off with people who have no clue what they are on about.. yep people like you that has no clue about hw the real law works and has no real clue about religion. but you constantly promote your warped views

no one is or should be jealous or envious of unethical people.

i personally have done some projects about housing real estate, business startups, environmental stuff.. and when i came across elwars project years ago  was interested. but then when i seen all the holes and flaws and crap. i soon learned that elwar was not that interested in what he was promoting he was just interested in the finances and the lifestyle he can live from sch unethical crap.

this aint to do with law or justice. this is about human caring, morals and ethics.. however elwar has also got himself into some legal problems too. so that cant be ignored

anyway i do not find it strange how you follow and fanboy over unethical people. so dont be surprised by me calling them type of people out

[BADecker]

lawsuits... hmm.. thai government want him..
trouble.. the military confiscated the pod

as for living free.. yea he promoted himself as one thing to get money from people but without any real understanding of what hewas promising to offer and from the looks of it no intention to actually offer it.

the difference between a walmart worker and elwar is that people know what they are getting for their money. they see a price they go to the checkout and they pay for it.  as for what elwar pretends of offer. people dont get what they are offered, all while he spends their money on vacations.

its called lack of morals and ethics

i personally travel alot. and i do ETHICAL business.. i am even mindful to not promote my business dealings on this forum because i have the ability to actually not want to promote stuff.
my business dealings are legit and ethical.. i know you dont understand those concepts. but it might help you to try learning them.

i am not jealous or envious. i am more of the kind of person that gets pissed off with unethical scammers and morons. pissed off with people who have no clue what they are on about.. yep people like you that has no clue about hw the real law works and has no real clue about religion. but you constantly promote your warped views

no one is or should be jealous or envious of unethical people.

i personally have done some projects about housing real estate, business startups, environmental stuff.. and when i came across elwars project years ago  was interested. but then when i seen all the holes and flaws and crap. i soon learned that elwar was not that interested in what he was promoting he was just interested in the finances and the lifestyle he can live from sch unethical crap.

this aint to do with law or justice. this is about human caring, morals and ethics.. however elwar has also got himself into some legal problems too. so that cant be ignored

anyway i do not find it strange how you follow and fanboy over unethical people. so dont be surprised by me calling them type of people out

So you think you are protecting some people by warning them away from Elwar, right? Or is it that you are only wanting to badmouth somebody, and Elwar happened to be available. Because that's what it seem like. And you haven't provided with any sources as even evidence for what you say, to say nothing about proof. Sounds more like you are slandering him. Slandering people is illegal as well as unlawful. You are getting yourself into big dodo.

[big_hercules]

I just found out about it. I heard a long time ago about casino ships in countries where casinos are prohibited, but I hear about accommodation for the first time. If you do this, you need to carefully consider where to get food, where to take out the garbage, etc. But the idea is good!

[BADecker]

I just found out about it. I heard a long time ago about casino ships in countries where casinos are prohibited, but I hear about accommodation for the first time. If you do this, you need to carefully consider where to get food, where to take out the garbage, etc. But the idea is good!

The casinos on ships are not in the countries. The ships might be registered with a country. But when they do their casino activities, they do it outside of the 12-mile limit, so that they are in international waters.

Many governments want to legalize international waters. The UN has been trying to do this for years. The point is that legal anywhere is important only when there is military or police strength to uphold and enforce the legal activity.

Might doesn't always make what is right, but it always makes what exists.