Government banning bitcoin??

[mobodick]

See, if it were dollars, I could just reach into your bank account or your mattress, or wherever you keep them, and take them. Can't do that with bitcoins.

That's just out of practicality.

Anyone who possesses your private key has your coins.
So its more like bitcoin gives you a very strong box for holding your value and gives you a key.
This key can be taken from you and you could lose it.

[myrkul]

See, if it were dollars, I could just reach into your bank account or your mattress, or wherever you keep them, and take them. Can't do that with bitcoins.

That's just out of practicality.

Yes, in that it's impractical to calculate between now and the heat death of the universe to get a 50% chance of guessing the right private key.

[roalwe]

Can someone explain, in small, grampa-compatible words, why is bitcoin un-taxeable?

Give me your bitcoins.

See, if it were dollars, I could just reach into your bank account or your mattress, or wherever you keep them, and take them. Can't do that with bitcoins.

Yes, taxes can be levied on BTC, you can even pay them. But it's voluntary.

That changes the whole game.

I am confident in my hiding abilities - despite advanced age, I am still capable of concealing smallish items beyond most people's (and I would be willing to claim, police's) ability to find them.

However, I am also confident in government's ability to facilitate cooperation on fund recovery, so I don't see why government couldn't be very convincing about handing over the private keys to undeclared btc.

Full disclosure: I intend to pay taxes on my profits from wallet.is

[Sitarow]

they can make it illegal though

they can also make the internet illegal

it would "stop" many bad things yup yup yup.

Sounds a bit familiar no?

[myrkul]

However, I am also confident in government's ability to facilitate cooperation on fund recovery, so I don't see why government couldn't be very convincing about handing over the private keys to undeclared btc.

Oh certainly. Quite convincing. But at least the gun is out on the table, for all to see.

[roalwe]

However, I am also confident in government's ability to facilitate cooperation on fund recovery, so I don't see why government couldn't be very convincing about handing over the private keys to undeclared btc.

Oh certainly. Quite convincing. But at least the gun is out on the table, for all to see.

Back in the good old schooldays, a teacher told us that the core distinguishing feature of a government is a monopoly, or near-monopoly, on violence.

So I don't think govenment is going to be shy about using violence to procure stuff that it "thinks" belongs to it.

Also, even if they fail to procure the keys, they could still send one to jail for tax offenses (and possibly a lot of bla-bla bla in regards to "transaction structuring" and whatnot)

Bitcoin is, essentially, equivalent to an unbreakable safe.

It can protect your wealth from forced seizure (to a fairly large extent), but not from taxation per se.

[myrkul]

However, I am also confident in government's ability to facilitate cooperation on fund recovery, so I don't see why government couldn't be very convincing about handing over the private keys to undeclared btc.

Oh certainly. Quite convincing. But at least the gun is out on the table, for all to see.

Back in the good old schooldays, a teacher told us that the core distinguishing feature of a government is a monopoly, or near-monopoly, on violence.

So I don't think govenment is going to be shy about using violence to procure stuff that it "thinks" belongs to it.

Also, even if they fail to procure the keys, they could still send one to jail for tax offenses (and possibly a lot of bla-bla bla in regards to "transaction structuring" and whatnot)

Bitcoin is, essentially, equivalent to an unbreakable safe.

It can protect your wealth from forced seizure (to a fairly large extent), but not from taxation per se.

Precisely. But when/if everyone has the viable option of saying "make me" when the government says "pay up," that's going to make the government's job a great deal more difficult.

[mobodick]

See, if it were dollars, I could just reach into your bank account or your mattress, or wherever you keep them, and take them. Can't do that with bitcoins.

That's just out of practicality.

Yes, in that it's impractical to calculate between now and the heat death of the universe to get a 50% chance of guessing the right private key.

Just like would be the case if i hid my coins and encrypted the location...

In both cases the only protection is a piece of information that exists somewhere.
And someone could steal the information.

[mobodick]

Also, even if they fail to procure the keys, they could still send one to jail for tax offenses (and possibly a lot of bla-bla bla in regards to "transaction structuring" and whatnot)

If they don't have your key then they cannot prove you own the coins.
If they cannot prove you own the coins then they cannot send you to jail for tax offense.

[myrkul]

See, if it were dollars, I could just reach into your bank account or your mattress, or wherever you keep them, and take them. Can't do that with bitcoins.

That's just out of practicality.

Yes, in that it's impractical to calculate between now and the heat death of the universe to get a 50% chance of guessing the right private key.

Just like would be the case if i hid my coins and encrypted the location...

In both cases the only protection is a piece of information that exists somewhere.
And someone could steal the information.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Brainwallet

[Its About Sharing]

they can make it illegal though

It's illegal to download music and movies in most places yet I can still do it in just a few moments.

Shutting down exchanges?  They will just move to friendlier countries.

Cheers

We can't compare downloading movies and music with currencies. Banks make wars. Controlling money is there bread and butter.

If they make BTC illegal in just a few countries it goes underground. If that happens it will be hard to sustain any kind of price.

It isn't that governments can end bitcoin, but for it to be viable we have to be able to spend it. If it is illegal, where are we going to spend it?

I'm all about BTC and what it stands for but we have to hope that currencies continue to crash. If that happens then the people will will BTC into being another currency.
If we stay in between for too long, they will attack us. Luckily, their currencies are collapsing all over the globe. We have a chance. We have God on our side...

[Its About Sharing]

they can make it illegal though

How would they enforce that exactly?

It wouldn't be difficult to do enough to discourage 95% of the poopulation from using bitcoin. Scare campaign plus a few high profile busts should be enough. Shit, some miners have been raided already because the cops thought they were running grow ops. If mining was illegal they should be able to catch a few.

Exactly. The thing we will always have on our side though, is the incredibly small float.

Right now and for the next few months I think we are ok. In that time the Sh*T may hit the fan with many currencies all over the globe though.
If that happens, we will probably be ok. If we aren't ok, we have bigger things to worry about.

[anu]

if the governments can shut it down

The good news is that we don't yet have "the" government. Instead, there are a few hundred of them.

[myrkul]

they can make it illegal though

It's illegal to download music and movies in most places yet I can still do it in just a few moments.

Shutting down exchanges?  They will just move to friendlier countries.

Cheers

We can't compare downloading movies and music with currencies. Banks make wars. Controlling money is there bread and butter.

If they make BTC illegal in just a few countries it goes underground. If that happens it will be hard to sustain any kind of price.

People can, will, and do right now sell cash on .onion sites for Bitcoins. All making Bitcoin illegal will do is move all the exchanges into onionspace.

[Its About Sharing]

they can make it illegal though

It's illegal to download music and movies in most places yet I can still do it in just a few moments.

Shutting down exchanges?  They will just move to friendlier countries.

Cheers

We can't compare downloading movies and music with currencies. Banks make wars. Controlling money is there bread and butter.

If they make BTC illegal in just a few countries it goes underground. If that happens it will be hard to sustain any kind of price.

People can, will, and do right now sell cash on .onion sites for Bitcoins. All making Bitcoin illegal will do is move all the exchanges into onionspace.

Where do we spend it? It would become a person to person exchange if possible.

[myrkul]

they can make it illegal though

It's illegal to download music and movies in most places yet I can still do it in just a few moments.

Shutting down exchanges?  They will just move to friendlier countries.

Cheers

We can't compare downloading movies and music with currencies. Banks make wars. Controlling money is there bread and butter.

If they make BTC illegal in just a few countries it goes underground. If that happens it will be hard to sustain any kind of price.

People can, will, and do right now sell cash on .onion sites for Bitcoins. All making Bitcoin illegal will do is move all the exchanges into onionspace.

Where do we spend it? It would become a person to person exchange if possible.

Spend what, the cash? Wherever you want.

If you mean the bitcoins, well, those sites usually have a large number of options for you to spend your bitcoins on....

[Its About Sharing]

they can make it illegal though

It's illegal to download music and movies in most places yet I can still do it in just a few moments.

Shutting down exchanges?  They will just move to friendlier countries.

Cheers

We can't compare downloading movies and music with currencies. Banks make wars. Controlling money is there bread and butter.

If they make BTC illegal in just a few countries it goes underground. If that happens it will be hard to sustain any kind of price.

People can, will, and do right now sell cash on .onion sites for Bitcoins. All making Bitcoin illegal will do is move all the exchanges into onionspace.

Where do we spend it? It would become a person to person exchange if possible.

Spend what, the cash? Wherever you want.

If you mean the bitcoins, well, those sites usually have a large number of options for you to spend your bitcoins on....

Again, I'm a bitcoin fan. But it will not be good if it becomes illegal. (Which sounds crazy but that is the world we live in.) Trading them is one thing. But do you think someone is going to risk getting thrown in jail using an illegal currency? (Again that just sounds so crazy.)

I don't think we are close to making it illegal, that would really suck.

[myrkul]

Again, I'm a bitcoin fan. But it will not be good if it becomes illegal. (Which sounds crazy but that is the world we live in.) Trading them is one thing. But do you think someone is going to risk getting thrown in jail using an illegal currency? (Again that just sounds so crazy.)

I don't think we are close to making it illegal, that would really suck.

Can you prove that I have ever "used" a bitcoin?

[TimJBenham]

See, if it were dollars, I could just reach into your bank account or your mattress, or wherever you keep them, and take them. Can't do that with bitcoins.

That's just out of practicality.

Anyone who possesses your private key has your coins.
So its more like bitcoin gives you a very strong box for holding your value and gives you a key.
This key can be taken from you and you could lose it.

Sure could. Most Western countries now have laws requiring you to hand over the keys to any encrypted data the cops want to look at.

[myrkul]

See, if it were dollars, I could just reach into your bank account or your mattress, or wherever you keep them, and take them. Can't do that with bitcoins.

That's just out of practicality.

Anyone who possesses your private key has your coins.
So its more like bitcoin gives you a very strong box for holding your value and gives you a key.
This key can be taken from you and you could lose it.

Sure could. Most Western countries now have laws requiring you to hand over the keys to any encrypted data the cops want to look at.

Sure. But do they get the key to all your riches, or a mostly empty show wallet? How would they know the difference?