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Author Topic: Alitin Mint Coin Breach  (Read 5897 times)
RichardForsyth
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March 06, 2017, 04:51:23 PM
 #1

My name is Richard Forsyth and I am one of the founders of Alitin Mint. 

I am very sorry to those of you who have had your coins compromised. 


So far, we have received very few reports and we believe that the breach was quite limited, but we urge any of our customers to contact us so that we can work with you on an individual basis to resolve the matter to your satisfaction as soon as possible.  You may reach me at raforsyth@alitin.com, and I will try to get back with you as soon as I can.

I contacted authorities (FBI) first thing this morning and we are cooperating as best we can--we are laying out our pockets, so to speak, and inviting a vigorous investigation in to myself and my brother/partner as soon as possible so we can clear our names and get to work helping anyone who has been cheated to receive whatever recovery we can restore, and to also bring the perpetrators to full justice.  An official report has been filed with the FBI and I am at their disposal, 24/7, in any investigation which may (likely) occur. 

We will also be re-launching our site at AlitinMint.com soon so that anyone who has any concerns can contact us and work with us to resolve the issue as best we can, with an emphasis on full customer satisfaction.  I invite any investigation in to myself or my partner because I know we have nothing to hide and we're eager to earn any kind of trust back in the Bitcoin community, though we are likely out of the physical Bitcoin business for good at this point. It's not easy to come back from such a devastating blow.  Our reputation is dear to us, and we have both dedicated our lives to ethical and generous principles; and we care deeply about our private and business relations.  We're horrified if we have hurt anyone in anyway.  We'll do anything in our power to make it right.

Alitin Mint has been out of business for about 2 years now.  We just didn't sell enough coins and the regulatory environment became more complicated and expensive than we anticipated. Our original plan was to offer high grade numismatic coins with Bitcoin codes attached in order to offer a secure product that at least partially bridged the gap between the less risk averse and tech savvy on one hand, and those who were interested in Bitcoin but balked at buying something entirely virtual--we thought it might help skeptics get in to Bitcoin by offering them something tangible for their purchases; something physical to hold on to, but an entry in to the Bitcoin market.  We started out at the $80 BTC price, but things ballooned way out of control in BTC pricing and this blasted our sales apart because our products were just too expensive too soon for most interested customers.  Plus, compliance became so expensive and time consuming that our business just naturally became insolvent.

We spent years as advocates of cryptocurrency and I myself was a regular on the national speaking circuit as a compliance expert in finance and crypto to banking associations with FIBA and CSMB out of Miami. For a time, I was quite well known as a crypto expert to bankers around the world.  I also worked as a consultant and educator on the subject for several years.  As you can imagine, it would be devastating for someone in my position to be the subject of even one small breach of security of any type or level, because I only aim for perfection in my work. There's really no room for mistakes in what we do, but we are reasonably sure we were burned by an insider to our organization.  This might indicate a somewhat greater tendency towards trust with our people than was warranted and, if that was indeed our mistake, we apologize profusely.  We truly thought we were being paranoid with even the people we trusted, but again, apparently no security system is 100% full-proof. 

We did once have offices but we have since sold them and we've mostly gone our separate ways, but those involved in the company mostly stay in contact.  My personal phone number has since changed as well, but neither our phone or address changes have been in an effort to hide or avoid anyone.  We intend to make good on our promises and to do our best to satisfy anyone who has been aggrieved.  And we will get the bottom of what happened and resolve it. 

I personally understand what it is like to be robbed.  It's infuriating, and I COMPLETELY understand and fully accept the anger.  I urge you to contact me at raforsyth@alitin.com if you think you have had coins stolen from you, and I also hope you will contact me if you have other questions or concerns.

Please feel free to vent at me personally.  Call me names, threaten me, whatever you need to do--you will find me completely contrite and eager to help in any way I can.  I will apologize personally to anyone who is aggrieved in this issue and ask for patience and mercy.  I have personally never been at a lower point in my life, even if it turns out to be only a few coins that were compromised, because again, there was never any room for error here. 

At this time, we're still not entirely sure what happened but we have some running theories and we hope to resolve any investigation that we anticipate will begin shortly.  Again, we urge you to contact us so that we can get as much information as possible for the authorities to work with.  I will monitor my email account to be prompt to your questions and request; and again, if you just want to rant at me.  I considered many of those I met to be wonderful people and hoped for a chance to meet at future conferences to strike up long-lasting friendships.  I've been so impressed by the kindness, the energy, and the intelligence of the Bitcoin community.  I admire so many of you.  I am still a believer in the crypto concept and not just for personal gain.  I still believe it will change the world for the better, and I still hope to be a part of that in some way, however limited.  And as a consequence, I am deeply wounded to be in a position where I have wounded or undermined trust with anyone. 

I met many of you personally in the sale of these coins and I was sincere in my promises and belief in our product.  I have never stolen anything in my life, but I am certainly guilty of personal mistakes from time to time.  I offer no exculpation other than my vigorous assertion that neither I nor my brother had anything willing to do with any security compromises of our products.  Our security was vigorous but nothing can be 100% secure.  Again, we are still intensely surprised and disappointed by this breathtaking news that even a few coins have been compromised. You will find on my part only a willingness to satisfy anyone who has been injured and to do my best to make things right. 

Thank you for any patience you are willing to extend to us in this issue, and please contact us if we can help you personally.

Sincerely,

Richard A Forsyth
Former CEO of Alitin Mint

 
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March 06, 2017, 04:53:38 PM
 #2

Who all had access and/or exposure to the private keys?

You, your brother, and who else?
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March 06, 2017, 05:10:27 PM
 #3



So far, we have received very few reports and we believe that the breach was quite limited, but we urge any of our customers to contact us so that we can work with you on an individual basis to resolve the matter to your satisfaction as soon as possible. 
 


There were approximately 56 coins which may have been breached according to this post by bitenvy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1814828.msg18079926#msg18079926

So far, that's roughly $140k in lost bitcoins.

1. Will you provide a list of all of the public keys associated with the coins you've sold?  From that we could check to see how many were redeemed last month and get the entire total.

2. Please provide the list of people who were involved from key generation, to engraving, to assembling into the final slab. 

3. At which point in the process do you believe the breach occurred? And why was it only a subset of the coins?
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March 06, 2017, 05:13:58 PM
 #4

Crap. I have two of these coins for a total of 3 BTC.  I guess I will have to check and see if they still have their BTC...  Crap.

Was the theft limited to certain series, or were all of them compromised?

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 06, 2017, 05:26:20 PM
 #5



So far, we have received very few reports and we believe that the breach was quite limited, but we urge any of our customers to contact us so that we can work with you on an individual basis to resolve the matter to your satisfaction as soon as possible. 
 


There were approximately 56 coins which may have been breached according to this post by bitenvy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1814828.msg18079926#msg18079926

So far, that's roughly $140k in lost bitcoins.

1. Will you provide a list of all of the public keys associated with the coins you've sold?  From that we could check to see how many were redeemed last month and get the entire total.

2. Please provide the list of people who were involved from key generation, to engraving, to assembling into the final slab. 

3. At which point in the process do you believe the breach occurred? And why was it only a subset of the coins?

Were they all breached? Or is it ppl peeling and redeeming majority of coins after alarms went off?
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March 06, 2017, 05:32:36 PM
 #6

I think we can tell the difference by looking at the claiming transactions.  However, Alitin has a real problem here going forward.  They will need to try to differentiate between the people that got ripped off by having their BTC swept by the thief and the people trying to rip them off by reclaiming the BTC themselves and then filing a claim.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 06, 2017, 05:39:45 PM
 #7

So, it's nice of you to come by and introduce yourself, but nothing you've written describes the technical aspect of how it could be stolen? It'd be nice if you actually shared your theories, instead of just alluding to them. Were the keys created on an isolated system? Were they deleted immediately after the coins were created, and if not, why would you keep them? It's all very well saying you've contacted the FBI, but plenty of people thought they were smart enough to outwit the authorities and it means little.

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March 06, 2017, 05:42:03 PM
 #8

I think we can tell the difference by looking at the claiming transactions.  However, Alitin has a real problem here going forward.  They will need to try to differentiate between the people that got ripped off by having their BTC swept by the thief and the people trying to rip them off by reclaiming the BTC themselves and them filing a claim.

You're presuming that Alitin is planning to reimburse owners for the theft, I've not seen or read any such intention. The statement provided by the Alitin guys here is a deep, sincere apology and an admission that they've initiated an investigation on the matter and themselves.

The company is out of business, what claim is to be made?

The best way for those that got robbed to recoup their loss is to file a claim with their insurance company (i.e, homeowner's, renter's). These coins are collectible and have value as currency and art does...they would be covered by any basic insurance policy for personal possessions.

So sorry to hear of everyone's loss. We all lose in this situation, if not by monetary means by the mark down on the reputation that bitcoin and physical cryptocurrency has been working hard to build. A crime against one is a crime against us all!
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March 06, 2017, 05:43:50 PM
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So far, we have received very few reports and we believe that the breach was quite limited, but we urge any of our customers to contact us so that we can work with you on an individual basis to resolve the matter to your satisfaction as soon as possible.  
  


There were approximately 56 coins which may have been breached according to this post by bitenvy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1814828.msg18079926#msg18079926

So far, that's roughly $140k in lost bitcoins.

1. Will you provide a list of all of the public keys associated with the coins you've sold?  From that we could check to see how many were redeemed last month and get the entire total.

2. Please provide the list of people who were involved from key generation, to engraving, to assembling into the final slab.  

3. At which point in the process do you believe the breach occurred? And why was it only a subset of the coins?

Were they all breached? Or is it ppl peeling and redeeming majority of coins after alarms went off?
I think we can tell the difference by looking at the claiming transactions.  However, Alitin has a real problem here going forward.  They will need to try to differentiate between the people that got ripped off by having their BTC swept by the thief and the people trying to rip them off by reclaiming the BTC themselves and them filing a claim.
For the transactions I found.  All were swept and stolen on the same day.  That doesn't mean there aren't more.  But, any transactions in my list are likely valid as stolen because they were all taken the same day (2/26).  Hopefully there are not more than the 50+ I've found.  

I would like to ask again for a list of all public keys for both your Adam Smith 2BTC coin as well as your Jeanne D'Arc 1BTC coin (even if in PM), and we can confirm how many and which ones are compromised.  Public would be better. 
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March 06, 2017, 05:46:28 PM
 #10

I think we can tell the difference by looking at the claiming transactions.  However, Alitin has a real problem here going forward.  They will need to try to differentiate between the people that got ripped off by having their BTC swept by the thief and the people trying to rip them off by reclaiming the BTC themselves and them filing a claim.

You're presuming that Alitin is planning to reimburse owners for the theft, I've not seen or read any such intention. The statement provided by the Alitin guys here is a deep, sincere apology and an admission that they've initiated an investigation on the matter and themselves.

The company is out of business, what claim is to be made?

The best way for those that got robbed to recoup their loss is to file a claim with their insurance company (i.e, homeowner's, renter's). These coins are collectible and have value as currency and art does...they would be covered by any basic insurance policy for personal possessions.

So sorry to hear of everyone's loss. We all lose in this situation, if not by monetary means by the mark down on the reputation that bitcoin and physical cryptocurrency has been working hard to build. A crime against one is a crime against us all!
I will call my insurance company but I expect there is no claim unless they were listed on a special rider.  I have artwork (paintings) and had to insure them separately.  I did not do that with these coins, but it does not hurt to try the insurance path.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 06, 2017, 05:47:53 PM
 #11



So far, we have received very few reports and we believe that the breach was quite limited, but we urge any of our customers to contact us so that we can work with you on an individual basis to resolve the matter to your satisfaction as soon as possible.  
  


There were approximately 56 coins which may have been breached according to this post by bitenvy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1814828.msg18079926#msg18079926

So far, that's roughly $140k in lost bitcoins.

1. Will you provide a list of all of the public keys associated with the coins you've sold?  From that we could check to see how many were redeemed last month and get the entire total.

2. Please provide the list of people who were involved from key generation, to engraving, to assembling into the final slab.  

3. At which point in the process do you believe the breach occurred? And why was it only a subset of the coins?

Were they all breached? Or is it ppl peeling and redeeming majority of coins after alarms went off?
I think we can tell the difference by looking at the claiming transactions.  However, Alitin has a real problem here going forward.  They will need to try to differentiate between the people that got ripped off by having their BTC swept by the thief and the people trying to rip them off by reclaiming the BTC themselves and them filing a claim.
For the transactions I found.  All were swept and stolen on the same day.  That doesn't mean there aren't more.  But, any transactions in my list are likely valid as stolen because they were all taken the same day (2/26).  Hopefully there are not more than the 50+ I've found.  

I would like to ask again for a list of all public keys for both your Adam Smith 2BTC coin as well as your Jeanne D'Arc 1BTC coin (even if in PM), and we can confirm how many and which ones are compromised.  Public would be better. 
OK, we can hope that they swept all the private keys they had, they did not have them all, and so the rest of the coins are safe.  Hope.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 06, 2017, 05:50:08 PM
 #12

You're presuming that Alitin is planning to reimburse owners for the theft, I've not seen or read any such intention. The statement provided by the Alitin guys here is a deep, sincere apology and an admission that they've initiated an investigation on the matter and themselves.
JR has told me personally, that I would be refunded the "value of the coin" in bitcoin.  bithalo has also been told the same.  
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March 06, 2017, 05:52:48 PM
 #13

You're presuming that Alitin is planning to reimburse owners for the theft, I've not seen or read any such intention. The statement provided by the Alitin guys here is a deep, sincere apology and an admission that they've initiated an investigation on the matter and themselves.
JR has told me personally, that I would be refunded the "value of the coin" in bitcoin.  bithalo has also been told the same.  

I've been told the same as well. I also provided photo proof of coins held.
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March 06, 2017, 05:56:26 PM
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You're presuming that Alitin is planning to reimburse owners for the theft, I've not seen or read any such intention. The statement provided by the Alitin guys here is a deep, sincere apology and an admission that they've initiated an investigation on the matter and themselves.
JR has told me personally, that I would be refunded the "value of the coin" in bitcoin.  bithalo has also been told the same.  

I've been told the same as well. I also provided photo proof of coins held.

There's no judgement to who did it, but a coin manufacturer out of the game for two years has little incentive to protect their reputation with the amount of money to be made. It could be a gamble: Redeem 50 coins, expect 20 people to actively notice and complain, then pocket the rest.

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|████████████████████████
.
ROLLBIT NFT
.
████████████████████████
ROLLBOT
ROLLBOXES
MARKETPLACE
|
   BONUS BATTLES   
.....WINNER TAKES ALL.....
TWITTER     |     DISCORD
..PLAY NOW..
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March 06, 2017, 05:56:46 PM
 #15

OK, we can hope that they swept all the private keys they had, they did not have them all, and so the rest of the coins are safe.  Hope.
I don't think it really matters, people are cracking the cases, the market for Alitin coins is pretty much dead at this point.
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March 06, 2017, 05:59:10 PM
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OK, we can hope that they swept all the private keys they had, they did not have them all, and so the rest of the coins are safe.  Hope.
I don't think it really matters, people are cracking the cases, the market for Alitin coins is pretty much dead at this point.

I really like the design of them, I will buy a cracked/unfunded coin. Please PM me
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March 06, 2017, 06:22:28 PM
 #17

When will coin holders receive reimbursement?
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March 06, 2017, 06:25:29 PM
 #18

OK, we can hope that they swept all the private keys they had, they did not have them all, and so the rest of the coins are safe.  Hope.
I don't think it really matters, people are cracking the cases, the market for Alitin coins is pretty much dead at this point.

I really like the design of them, I will buy a cracked/unfunded coin. Please PM me
I may have two for sale at some point (I am at work and cannot check my coins but from what I hear they are probably both empty).

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 07, 2017, 12:14:02 AM
 #19

I have 2 Adam Smiths and 2 Jean D'Arcs purchased in August 2015.

One of the Adam Smiths has been compromised.

18maxv3kVNNKUE9NZhcYcfHhcRrtSXC8eE

The others remain funded.  This implies that the perpetrator has either not raided all the coins or else had limited access to the private keys to a batch of Adam Smiths.  I have sent Richard the batch number of the breached and intact coins which may help in identifying the timeline of when / who was involved.

The affected coin number is 113/600 but my 118/600 was not affected in the 26/2/17 theft.
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March 07, 2017, 12:20:39 AM
 #20

I have 2 Adam Smiths and 2 Jean D'Arcs purchased in August 2015.

One of the Adam Smiths has been compromised.

18maxv3kVNNKUE9NZhcYcfHhcRrtSXC8eE

The others remain funded.  This implies that the perpetrator has either not raided all the coins or else had limited access to the private keys to a batch of Adam Smiths.  I have sent Richard the batch number of the breached and intact coins which may help in identifying the timeline of when / who was involved.

The affected coin number is 113/600 but my 118/600 was not affected in the 26/2/17 theft.


You may want to consider cracking it and redeeming. Or wait, but if there is a major sweep of coins then you probably won't be reimbursed. I'd guess the market for these is pretty much done.
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March 07, 2017, 01:56:47 AM
 #21

I have 2 Adam Smiths and 2 Jean D'Arcs purchased in August 2015.

One of the Adam Smiths has been compromised.

18maxv3kVNNKUE9NZhcYcfHhcRrtSXC8eE

The others remain funded.  This implies that the perpetrator has either not raided all the coins or else had limited access to the private keys to a batch of Adam Smiths.  I have sent Richard the batch number of the breached and intact coins which may help in identifying the timeline of when / who was involved.

The affected coin number is 113/600 but my 118/600 was not affected in the 26/2/17 theft.


Resale market just dropped to zero. And how can you be sure the balance on your other coins will still be there tomorrow? I would get the bitcoin safe and call it a day.

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March 07, 2017, 04:45:17 AM
Last edit: March 07, 2017, 05:02:49 AM by bitenvy
 #22

I have asked once again about public list for coins stolen, information about who had access to private keys, etc.  JR refuses to answer any of my questions now that the FBI is involved.  I will continue to find all the addresses that I can that are funded/not funded to help out.  I am up to 66 coins that have had funds stolen.  I have also found a few that are still funded.  But, not very many.
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March 07, 2017, 05:35:53 AM
 #23

This is strange.  I bought two coins.  The first one is an Adam Smith number 60/600.

https://blockchain.info/address/1QLQDk2KotPqqBjQQK9atEqmmmjBZySPwc

It was swept 2017-02-26 02:31:26, so I lost 2 BTC on that deal.

My second coin is a Joan of Arc number 17/600.  But when I went to check on it I found that it had never been funded!  Were we supposed to fund these ourselves? Check it out:

https://blockchain.info/address/1KzvorTcd6W497eYdk7Jc9U1YLNTF1A6LK

When I bought it I assumed it was funded.  I am sure I paid more than 1 BTC for the thing.  What is the deal with that?

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 07, 2017, 05:59:15 AM
 #24

I have asked once again about public list for coins stolen, information about who had access to private keys, etc.  JR refuses to answer any of my questions now that the FBI is involved.  I will continue to find all the addresses that I can that are funded/not funded to help out.  I am up to 66 coins that have had funds stolen.  I have also found a few that are still funded.  But, not very many.

TBH, my interpretation of the situation is that this guy is trying to delay his customers from contacting law enforcement by both claiming that the FBI has been contacted and by promising that the BTC will be reimbursed (yet offers no specifics on this).

IMO, the overwhelmingly most likely scenario is that he kept (a portion of) the private keys, and decided to redeem the coins with BTC trading at ATH, and if this is not the case, then the private keys were stolen due to his own gross negligence.   
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March 07, 2017, 06:06:50 AM
 #25

I have asked once again about public list for coins stolen, information about who had access to private keys, etc.  JR refuses to answer any of my questions now that the FBI is involved.  I will continue to find all the addresses that I can that are funded/not funded to help out.  I am up to 66 coins that have had funds stolen.  I have also found a few that are still funded.  But, not very many.

If law enforcement is involved he is not going to answer any questions outside of the investigation, especially if he talked to a lawyer, who would tell him no say nothing.
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March 07, 2017, 06:11:40 AM
 #26

Yeah, I've seen this all play out before.  JR has assured me I will get a refund "this week".  I will let everyone know if this even happens. 
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March 07, 2017, 06:16:49 AM
 #27

What is the total amount of coins stolen so far?

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 07, 2017, 06:24:40 AM
 #28

What is the total amount of coins stolen so far?
I have found 66, but having a hard time finding any more that were stolen on 2/26.  I'm starting to research a different way to find other addresses, which is why I have found a few funded coin addresses.
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March 07, 2017, 06:33:16 AM
 #29

What is the total amount of coins stolen so far?
I have found 66, but having a hard time finding any more that were stolen on 2/26.  I'm starting to research a different way to find other addresses, which is why I have found a few funded coin addresses.
So 66 + the unfunded coin I have = 67 so let's call it 67 x 1300 = $87,100

That is a good chunk of change.

They must know every single person that ever had access to the private keys.  The pattern of theft is also a great clue as they can correlate the batches to the people who had access.  So, I think there is a chance they will catch the bastard.

These things take time, usually months, so I would not expect a quick turn around on this.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 07, 2017, 07:27:04 AM
 #30

x2.  Adam Smith coins had 2BTC on them.  So it's more like $167,000+.  
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March 07, 2017, 01:44:09 PM
 #31

x2.  Adam Smith coins had 2BTC on them.  So it's more like $167,000+.  

Yes, my calculation is incorrect and yours is correct.

Also, there is a possibility they will catch the thief.  It is a very stupid crime.  There is a very small finite group of people that ever had access to the lists of private keys.  The thief is one of those people.  Since there is such a small group of possible suspects there is a chance the thief will be caught.

They will seize all of the thief's assets so even if he sold the BTC there is a chance we might get paid back.

Of course, I am not holding my breath waiting for this to happen.

But in the mean time I am suggesting that any claim on any of the recovered funds will probably involve proving you have the swept or accidentally unfunded coin.

So my suggestion is to keep your coins and do not sell them to all of these people saying they want to buy the silver unless you are aware that you may not be able to make a future claim - the buyer will get any future claim.  

Just a thought.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 07, 2017, 01:59:28 PM
 #32

I have asked once again about public list for coins stolen, information about who had access to private keys, etc.  JR refuses to answer any of my questions now that the FBI is involved.  I will continue to find all the addresses that I can that are funded/not funded to help out.  I am up to 66 coins that have had funds stolen.  I have also found a few that are still funded.  But, not very many.

If law enforcement is involved he is not going to answer any questions outside of the investigation, especially if he talked to a lawyer, who would tell him no say nothing.

Has there been any proof that the authorities have been contacted??
And if he talked to lawyer, seems like there is something to hide already.....


First, it is pure conjecture he has hired a lawyer.
Second, it would be wise to do so.  Hiring a lawyer does not have anything to do with guilt.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 07, 2017, 02:12:34 PM
 #33

And only one person ever sees the private keys before they are destroyed from our records--and that person is me.  I am the CEO and I engrave the coins myself.  I also do the ciphers and much of the packaging.  Tamper proofing cases like this is a challenge.  It's slow and tedious work.  But thorough.  We built in 6-8 weeks just in case we got big orders.  We would rather our customers be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.  


I see a lot of posts regarding who had access to the coins before they were slabbed, but we've already had a statement regarding this from Alitin.
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March 07, 2017, 02:17:17 PM
 #34

And only one person ever sees the private keys before they are destroyed from our records--and that person is me.  I am the CEO and I engrave the coins myself.  I also do the ciphers and much of the packaging.  Tamper proofing cases like this is a challenge.  It's slow and tedious work.  But thorough.  We built in 6-8 weeks just in case we got big orders.  We would rather our customers be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.  


I see a lot of posts regarding who had access to the coins before they were slabbed, but we've already had a statement regarding this from Alitin.

That makes the whole thing a lot more clear. I hate to admit it but I tend to agree with QS here.....
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March 07, 2017, 03:47:10 PM
 #35

Oh boy... this is very odd. Alitin are very nice looking coins.

Very sad to hear another Physical BTC manufacturer having this sort of issue.  Huh

We should see how this unfolds, glad I don't have any Alitin coins, been tempted to get a few in the past but never did.

Sucks very much.

However how do we know for sure 50/60 coins were actually emptied by a thief rather than people just emptying themselves because of BTC price hike or to protect themselves from theft?

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March 07, 2017, 03:50:45 PM
 #36

However how do we know for sure 50/60 coins were actually emptied by a thief rather than people just emptying themselves because of BTC price hike or to protect themselves from theft?

Their tamper-evident cases are still intact.
So, it's more likely that someone swept the keys, rather than multiple people trying to "scam" Altin Mint.
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March 07, 2017, 04:15:32 PM
 #37

Oh boy... this is very odd. Alitin are very nice looking coins.

Very sad to hear another Physical BTC manufacturer having this sort of issue.  Huh

We should see how this unfolds, glad I don't have any Alitin coins, been tempted to get a few in the past but never did.

Sucks very much.

However how do we know for sure 50/60 coins were actually emptied by a thief rather than people just emptying themselves because of BTC price hike or to protect themselves from theft


Also, all of the coins considered "swept" were done so on the specific date, 2/26. So you wouldn't have had any individuals cracking their own coins on that exact date, unless it was pure coincidence, which isn't likely.
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March 07, 2017, 04:43:45 PM
Last edit: March 13, 2017, 05:23:50 PM by BurtW
 #38

Following mine:

https://blockchain.info/address/1QLQDk2KotPqqBjQQK9atEqmmmjBZySPwc

to here:

https://blockchain.info/address/1L9TVzK8CDMsfKW9LRpkVZcTisPX272eFK

You can easily see that my 2 BTC from my coin were combined with the theft of 34 more BTC from 17 other coins and in this one sweep the thief got 36 BTC.

These 36 BTC were then sent to a mixer to be washed.

It looks like my coins ended up here:

https://blockchain.info/address/1AHZ4H8YgM1hMYHYGHaN89QKgf1YvnTuBD

Before being sent back out into the world. So that is the end of the trail on the block chain.

So, there is no doubt that it was theft.

Post script:

The person that now owns this block of 256 coins from the mixer has coins from the theft, but the way mixers work the current owner of these coins is most definitely not the thief.  The thief got other coins out of the mixer.

https://blockchain.info/address/1tUcP5FxpPTJhkS3bEpKXj1qbCgUK913U

Post post script:

The owner of the tainted coins (again this is NOT the thief) has used a few and the remaining coins are now here:

https://blockchain.info/address/14RXq8sYdHnxtVocnYnvJphZCmyF7EjJjC

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 07, 2017, 04:49:58 PM
 #39

I still have 17 Adam Smith coins listed for sale that were never funded, I consider all of these keys compromised.

- 1 key was swept on the 26th like most
- 1 was redeemed a few days ago which I presume was overlooked and fortunate for the owner
- 1 was in transit whilst this was announced, which was great timing

Unsure why one was not swept like the others. There was probably a range of presumed funded coins; I remember either hand picking/letting the customer choose the coin #, so there was probably a gap with non-funded coins that they overlooked when using their bot/software to redeem the keys in a singular instance, probably with no intention to try again (unless they realised a key(s) were missed)
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March 07, 2017, 05:36:19 PM
 #40

Richard Forsyth here.

I am sorry for not posting as often as I should.  I keep having issues logging in.  I want to keep up with everyone, and I want you to know we are doing our best to fix everything.  

Yes, we WILL restore stolen Bitcoins.

At this point, we're going to have to borrow the money, but we're working as fast as we can.  Our goal is to do it as fast as possible.  We need anyone who has been robbed to contact us and provide us a picture of their unbroken coin casing, if they haven't already. Thank you to those who have done this promptly.  This will be very helpful.  Our process will be to verify that there are no public address duplicates with applicants for refund, and to match up the public address with our sales records.  If you did not acquire your coin from us directly, please let us know from whom you bought it, if you can recall.  

As far as revealing technical details of the theft: we're still trying to figure out how it might have happened.  We can't release individual names for privacy reasons, and also because the FBI has been contacted and saying too much at this point might frustrate an official investigation.  We have not verified how many coins are stolen at this point.  This will take some time.  But as thefts are verified, we will be providing refunds as fast as we can.  

More about the authorities: I personally went to the FBI on Monday morning--the morning after I found out that some thefts occurred.  I have given them as much information as I could--what I knew at the time, along with what little I suspected--along with my contact information; and I am at their beck-and-call in this process.  Meanwhile, I am answering emails as best I can while trying to coordinate the refund effort.

We have also re-launched our site at AlitinMint.com.  

My contact info is there, and I URGE ANYONE who thinks they've been the victim of a theft to contact my email at raforsyth@alitin.com and I will try to coordinate your refund as fast as I can. I will also do my best to answer your questions and ... provide a punching bag if it will help in any way.

If you have any concerns about my personal complicity, I also urge you to email me and stay in contact with me. I'm not going anywhere until this is fixed.  Unless of course I am sent to jail for a theft that I did not commit.  That would only frustrate my efforts to undo as much damage as I can, and it would leave the real thief at large.  

For those who are still considering contacting "authorities": Please feel free to do so.  It's really not a bad idea, and it might even help.  If you do contact authorities, be sure to mention that I have been to the FBI and the process is already started.  I can assure you that I have more than enough motivation at this point to make everything right. Give them my name, my email, and I will talk to them and work with them.

I am personally very hurt over so many family and friends being robbed. I'm angry that anyone has been robbed who was under my protection. I don't expect any personal sympathy, and I reiterate that your anger is entirely justified.  

Contact me at raforsyth@alitin.com if you have not already, if you think you are the victim of a theft having to do with Alitin Mint, or to just get a feel for me to increase your confidence that I am telling the truth and doing my best.  Right now I am fielding dozens of emails and calls per hour, and I may at times be on the phone or at the offices of the FBI answering questions or assisting with investigative efforts; and If contact increases quite a bit, I might be hard-pressed to respond quickly at certain times.  But these days, I'm sacrificing sleep so I I will put as much time in to it as I am physically able.  I'm barely eating, and honestly I am shaking constantly because of how hurt and angry I am that we were all robbed.  My short-term and some mid-term memory are a little groggy at times too.  I guess stress can do that.   So if you communicate with me and I seem a little "out of it," that's why.  


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March 07, 2017, 05:55:30 PM
 #41

Thank you for attempting to quickly get in front of this issue.  Please keep us updated as you find out more information. 

Vod is a douche canoe
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March 07, 2017, 05:59:05 PM
 #42

I still have 17 Adam Smith coins listed for sale that were never funded, I consider all of these keys compromised.

- 1 key was swept on the 26th like most
- 1 was redeemed a few days ago which I presume was overlooked and fortunate for the owner
- 1 was in transit whilst this was announced, which was great timing

Unsure why one was not swept like the others. There was probably a range of presumed funded coins; I remember either hand picking/letting the customer choose the coin #, so there was probably a gap with non-funded coins that they overlooked when using their bot/software to redeem the keys in a singular instance, probably with no intention to try again (unless they realised a key(s) were missed)

How did you get 17 unfunded coins, did you just buy stock from Alitin?
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March 07, 2017, 06:07:48 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2017, 06:19:49 PM by defcon23
 #43

man ... seriously:  you have really kept private keys of your customers instead of properly destroyed them ??   cause if the answer is YES : sorry, but you're ENTIRELY responsible.  that's the basics ..   ( what's the goal to hold them as they are supposed to be destroyed after their secured generation .. ? )
IE: ask today to Ognasty or to Smoothie , Casascius, Gravitate  if they had keeped a private key of their funded coins ....  just to see : answer will be NO.
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March 07, 2017, 06:12:25 PM
 #44

Richard,

Thank you for the update.  For everyone who has contacted them regarding their coins, I am confident you will get your refund.  I just received my refund of the stolen 2BTC from JR.  I know this doesn't answer who stole the coin funds, but I believe it wasn't JR or Richard.  And, I do believe the thief will be caught.
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March 07, 2017, 06:16:06 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2017, 06:29:17 PM by defcon23
 #45

Richard,

Thank you for the update.  For everyone who has contacted them regarding their coins, I am confident you will get your refund.  I just received my refund of the stolen 2BTC from JR.  I know this doesn't answer who stole the coin funds, but I believe it wasn't JR or Richard.  And, I do believe the thief will be caught.



hooo ..  !  i see .. : you got a refund ( your refund ) so , you're in "trust"  ?  and then you can "vouch for" ? ...  OK ..  Cool

"let"s refund 2 bitcoin to the guy who yell much around ..  "  ...    how much Bitcoin in total was "stolen" ?  just to remind me ..
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March 07, 2017, 06:41:34 PM
 #46

Thank you for attempting to quickly get in front of this issue.  Please keep us updated as you find out more information. 

Thank you sir.  I take this all so personally and I am totally on the side of anyone who is angry about this.  I would be too.  But any kindness at this point means so much to me.  I will never forget it.  Please know I mean it when I say I will do whatever is in my power to fix this.  My honor, my reputation, and my friends, my family and dependents mean more to me than my life a thousand times over.  I've met many of you personally and I have been so proud and touched by how kind everyone has been to me in the past. 

All anger is FULLY justified, and any kindness is like the love of God and a lifeline to me at this point.  But I realize I could never ask for or deserve your anyone's kindness who has been wronged.  I can't change what has been done. But I can do my best to fix as much as I can, whatever it takes.  I'm struggling to keep my focus through the lack of sleep and food, through the extreme anxiety, and the increasing mental fogginess.  I apologize if at any time I make mistakes, get confused, mix up any information, or seem to just be generally "out of it."  I am not going anywhere and I will do anything to fix this and take care of all of you and my dependents, even if it leads to my personal ruin. 
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March 07, 2017, 06:44:20 PM
 #47

Any clue as to the point of failure?

I've yet to see anything regarding this.

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March 07, 2017, 06:44:38 PM
 #48


How did you get 17 unfunded coins, did you just buy stock from Alitin?

That's correct, we bought 20 * unfunded Adam Smiths in bulk back in 2014, with the intent to resell and fund on delivery.
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March 07, 2017, 06:46:18 PM
 #49

Glad to see that you are refunding customers, Richard. Still waiting to get access to my coin to take actual photos of it still fully sealed, but it was also raided in the same batch on the 26/02. I will be back in email contact shortly.

Good to see you are resolving this though. I thought those funds were gone forever.

Any clue as to the point of failure?

I've yet to see anything regarding this.

Viz

This please. Also, a full list of all 600 addresses would be great, so we can see just how bad the damage actually is....

My only payment address: 1ZephertJThxkHih7XcaUHBkMSnvkTt5u
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March 07, 2017, 06:48:12 PM
 #50

Glad to see that you are refunding customers, Richard. Still waiting to get access to my coin to take actual photos of it still fully sealed, but it was also raided in the same batch on the 26/02. I will be back in email contact shortly.

Good to see you are resolving this though. I thought those funds were gone forever.

Any clue as to the point of failure?

I've yet to see anything regarding this.

Viz

This please. Also, a full list of all 600 addresses would be great, so we can see just how bad the damage actually is....

I agree. We can help check all the addresses. Saves Alitin a lot of time.
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March 07, 2017, 07:01:20 PM
 #51

Who all had access and/or exposure to the private keys?

You, your brother, and who else?

We (My brother and I) are the only ones who had authorized access. There were very few people who had access to our facilities, but we had robust security measures.  The theft is breathtaking to us because we still can't figure out how they did it under our noses and left no trace (until the theft).  

My current theory was that it was a theft while we were in the milling process of producing the actual coins themselves.  If it was not an insider who did this (and thus a close friend or relative), then it was someone who knew an insider and got the information from them.  We can't truly be sure who spoke of what and to whom within the very limited circle of insiders, and what those secondary individuals might have told others.

I will be turning over the names and contact info of all individuals I know who had any access to the premises at any time  during our milling process to the FBI, or any other investigative authority that is appropriate.  Placing their names and contact info online for public consumption is another matter.  I am very concerned about innocent people being threatened, and some people are angry enough that I am worried innocent people will get personal threats and harassment they don't deserve. I'm also concerned about adding a libel or breach of privacy suit to the great list of challenges we are facing right now.  That could certainly slow down our efforts to get refunds back to aggrieved parties as soon as possible. We have no wish to be obtuse about anything. And our hesitancy to provide information in some cases is only out of a sense of caution for unintended consequences, and not to avoid or be obtuse to anyone.   We will turn over all names: family, friends, associates, ancillary contacts, and all identifying information to the authorities and we will let them to do their work in a confidential manner.  

Again, the FBI has been informed by me personally, and I am working with them to discover what happened and bring justice to all of our friends and family who have been victimized.   We will do everything we can do bring the perpetrators to justice and to restore our customers to a state as close to whole as possible.  
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March 07, 2017, 07:09:25 PM
 #52

My current theory was that it was a theft while we were in the milling process of producing the actual coins themselves.  If it was not an insider who did this (and thus a close friend or relative), then it was someone who knew an insider and got the information from them.  We can't truly be sure who spoke of what and to whom within the very limited circle of insiders, and what those secondary individuals might have told others.

I thought you engraved the private key on the coins yourself, or was the private key milled on the coins during production? How did you generate your private keys?
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March 07, 2017, 07:36:03 PM
 #53

yeah .... too much dollars BTCitcoin involved in this story, unfortunately....  just my two satoshis..

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March 07, 2017, 07:46:57 PM
 #54

What I don't get is that you go from this:

And only one person ever sees the private keys before they are destroyed from our records--and that person is me.  I am the CEO and I engrave the coins myself.  I also do the ciphers and much of the packaging.  Tamper proofing cases like this is a challenge.  It's slow and tedious work.  But thorough.  We built in 6-8 weeks just in case we got big orders.  We would rather our customers be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.  


To this:

We (My brother and I) are the only ones who had authorized access. There were very few people who had access to our facilities, but we had robust security measures.  The theft is breathtaking to us because we still can't figure out how they did it under our noses and left no trace (until the theft).  

My current theory was that it was a theft while we were in the milling process of producing the actual coins themselves.  If it was not an insider who did this (and thus a close friend or relative), then it was someone who knew an insider and got the information from them.  We can't truly be sure who spoke of what and to whom within the very limited circle of insiders, and what those secondary individuals might have told others.

You claimed that you were the only person who had access to the private keys to saying that several people could've had access to them, and even possibly shared them with secondary individuals......
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March 07, 2017, 08:09:38 PM
 #55

1) He is reimbursing the BTC.

2) He is trying to figure out how it happened.

3) He has or will report everything to the proper investigative authorities.

We are all very curious as to how this happened, I know I am, but let's give the guy a chance to catch his breath and figure this all out.  Remember 1) is the most important to the customers.  Everything else is interesting to Alitin as they try to recover the stolen funds and interesting to the Bitcoin community at large so that something like this might be prevented in the future.

But due to 1) let's give him some breathing room.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 07, 2017, 08:14:37 PM
 #56

What I don't get is that you go from this:

And only one person ever sees the private keys before they are destroyed from our records--and that person is me.  I am the CEO and I engrave the coins myself.  I also do the ciphers and much of the packaging.  Tamper proofing cases like this is a challenge.  It's slow and tedious work.  But thorough.  We built in 6-8 weeks just in case we got big orders.  We would rather our customers be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.  


To this:

We (My brother and I) are the only ones who had authorized access. There were very few people who had access to our facilities, but we had robust security measures.  The theft is breathtaking to us because we still can't figure out how they did it under our noses and left no trace (until the theft).  

My current theory was that it was a theft while we were in the milling process of producing the actual coins themselves.  If it was not an insider who did this (and thus a close friend or relative), then it was someone who knew an insider and got the information from them.  We can't truly be sure who spoke of what and to whom within the very limited circle of insiders, and what those secondary individuals might have told others.

You claimed that you were the only person who had access to the private keys to saying that several people could've had access to them, and even possibly shared them with secondary individuals......



you are right : all is based on what OP said ...   that's all.   so , if he need to refund few more guys  to have "few more guy who trust him" .... let's do this !   damn : if all precautions were taken, no problem were happend !    is private keys were properly destroyed or NOT ?
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March 07, 2017, 08:18:35 PM
 #57

you are right : all is based on what OP said ...   that's all.   so , if he need to refund few guys more to have "few more guy who trust him" .... let's do this !   damn : if all precautions were taken, no problem were happend !    is private keys were properly destroyed or NOT ?

defcon23 (-12: -4 / +4 Warning: Trade with extreme caution!):  Did you own any of these coins at the time of the theft?  Do you have a claim against Alitin?

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 07, 2017, 08:20:01 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2017, 09:09:41 PM by defcon23
 #58

you are right: all is based on what OP said ...   that's all.   so , if he need to refund few guys more to have "few more guy who trust him" .... let's do this !   damn : if all precautions were taken, no problem were happend !    is private keys were properly destroyed or NOT ?

defcon23 (-12: -4 / +4 Warning: Trade with extreme caution!):  Did you own any of these coins at the time of the theft?  Do you have a claim against Alitin?

Burtw:  in what are you concerned exactly ?  leave me alone, stay to your place, please . i havent anything to talk on this with YOU.
Thanx !


ps: my personal ignore list will grow again .. lol  Grin

how could you make your basis on this shitty "trust ref"?

have you even read a bit by  "who" and for "what" I had been tagged ??  I'm surprised, coming from YOU, to go in this way  as you know what is unjustice ( at least, I was thinking  to.. )



the relation you had just did few line ago about this , is exactly same  if i was told :  " if you was arrested by police it was for good reasons .. ! nothing  never happend for nothing .. "  you got me now ?    but i didnt.  i was able to made my OWN judgement... and i would expected you would be able to do the same ..


so : if i open my mouth in this story ( Alitin ): it's beacuse i have my own concern/personal  reason  : they dont concern you in anyway.


why have you open your mouth in this case ? i dont understand : feel free to post this  poor trust ranking as much as you like ... just sad..
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March 07, 2017, 08:34:41 PM
 #59

Richard... I sent a PM to you now.  I'm following up on our emails from a few days ago.

Thanks
Howard
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March 08, 2017, 01:48:12 AM
 #60

We are going to be working with coin owners on a case basis.  Please contact me at raforsyth@alitin.com to begin the process. We will need to verify that you are the rightful owner, that the case is not compromised, and that we're not refunding a duplicate request.  We're borrowing the money to refund, so timeline on this somewhat depends on how fast we can acquire the funds, but we're going to try to do it fast.  Please refer to AlitinMint.com for more updates from now on, and please contact us if you think you might be the victim of a theft.  We are going to try to get everyone their BTC back.  
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March 08, 2017, 12:57:42 PM
 #61

Well done for refunding users! Hope everyone can be made whole.
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March 08, 2017, 02:40:54 PM
 #62


Many collectors have theirs tucked away and probably do not access them on a regular basis....
Being that, I would gather that many collectors do not come to this forum and have no clue that their coins have been emptied.


I don't always check this board, but I happen to on just the right day when this thread started, but had to wait to access my coin to verify balance.  Before I could, the next day I received direct communication from Richard through the communication channel originally used during purchase in 2014.  They are privately contacting their customers.  I am currently awaiting refund. I will report back when it is received.   
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March 08, 2017, 04:23:27 PM
 #63

Richard,

Thank you for the update.  For everyone who has contacted them regarding their coins, I am confident you will get your refund.  I just received my refund of the stolen 2BTC from JR.  I know this doesn't answer who stole the coin funds, but I believe it wasn't JR or Richard.  And, I do believe the thief will be caught.


Can you post the txid please??

I received refund on for my 2 compromised Adam coins
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March 08, 2017, 05:34:52 PM
 #64

Richard,

Thank you for the update.  For everyone who has contacted them regarding their coins, I am confident you will get your refund.  I just received my refund of the stolen 2BTC from JR.  I know this doesn't answer who stole the coin funds, but I believe it wasn't JR or Richard.  And, I do believe the thief will be caught.


Can you post the txid please??
I'd rather not for privacy reasons.  Just know that I got a refund and others are as well.   
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March 08, 2017, 05:47:10 PM
 #65

Received my refund today for 2BTC.  Strange though I didnt hear from them after repeated emails and PMs on my part.  But I'm fine now.

Tx 4b131c58139b7b2c8fa3213e06c7f675c96ac8ca49c2876713ce9ccbf0aef3f5
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March 09, 2017, 01:20:31 AM
 #66

Reimbursed!  Grin Grin Grin

https://blockchain.info/tx/041b29ee19c31708502389cf1e8e974ec3b2398e91561a9c98b31ec80bac4dde

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 09, 2017, 01:06:46 PM
 #67

Good to see people are starting to get refunds, a little light on the physical coin scene it seems.

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March 09, 2017, 04:06:25 PM
 #68

AlitinMint said:
Quote
"we will offer this refund until April 5, 2017.  After this date, and due to the price volatility of Bitcoin, we simply cannot be sure we will have the funds necessary to refund stolen BTC. "
Really?  You're at fault and you set a very short window to claim.  There are probably only 4-5 people who have claimed at this point.  That's ridiculous!

Have you notified ALL of the owners?  How many have you contacted???  Are you ever going to release a number of coins affected???
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March 09, 2017, 04:11:23 PM
 #69

AlitinMint said:
Quote
"we will offer this refund until April 5, 2017.  After this date, and due to the price volatility of Bitcoin, we simply cannot be sure we will have the funds necessary to refund stolen BTC. "
Really?  You're at fault and you set a very short window to claim.  There are probably only 4-5 people who have claimed at this point.  That's ridiculous!

I agree. If you're concerned about the volatility of Bitcoin, set a $$ rate for them that you can afford to pay. If people claim their Bitcoins after 4th, just pay them the $$ value in Bitcoin.
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March 09, 2017, 04:25:14 PM
 #70

AlitinMint said:
Quote
"we will offer this refund until April 5, 2017.  After this date, and due to the price volatility of Bitcoin, we simply cannot be sure we will have the funds necessary to refund stolen BTC. "
Really?  You're at fault and you set a very short window to claim.  There are probably only 4-5 people who have claimed at this point.  That's ridiculous!

Have you notified ALL of the owners?  How many have you contacted???  Are you ever going to release a number of coins affected???
I believe they are contacting all the people on their customer list.  Some of them may have been sold.  They can try to track down the new owners as best they can by asking who the coin was sold to but some of those trails may lead to dead ends.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 09, 2017, 04:27:02 PM
 #71

AlitinMint said:
Quote
"we will offer this refund until April 5, 2017.  After this date, and due to the price volatility of Bitcoin, we simply cannot be sure we will have the funds necessary to refund stolen BTC. "
Really?  You're at fault and you set a very short window to claim.  There are probably only 4-5 people who have claimed at this point.  That's ridiculous!

I agree. If you're concerned about the volatility of Bitcoin, set a $$ rate for them that you can afford to pay. If people claim their Bitcoins after 4th, just pay them the $$ value in Bitcoin.
That is a pretty good idea.  Set aside a refund fund  Wink

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 09, 2017, 04:29:32 PM
 #72

AlitinMint said:
Quote
"we will offer this refund until April 5, 2017.  After this date, and due to the price volatility of Bitcoin, we simply cannot be sure we will have the funds necessary to refund stolen BTC. "
Really?  You're at fault and you set a very short window to claim.  There are probably only 4-5 people who have claimed at this point.  That's ridiculous!

Have you notified ALL of the owners?  How many have you contacted???  Are you ever going to release a number of coins affected???
I believe they are contacting all the people on their customer list.  Some of them may have been sold.  They can try to track down the new owners as best they can by asking who the coin was sold to but some of those trails may lead to dead ends.

Personally I think that's plenty of time. They messed up but like we've seen a hundred times in crypto, they aren't obligated to pay anyone back, they are doing so for reputation and courtesy.
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March 09, 2017, 04:34:43 PM
 #73

AlitinMint said:
Quote
"we will offer this refund until April 5, 2017.  After this date, and due to the price volatility of Bitcoin, we simply cannot be sure we will have the funds necessary to refund stolen BTC. "
Really?  You're at fault and you set a very short window to claim.  There are probably only 4-5 people who have claimed at this point.  That's ridiculous!

Have you notified ALL of the owners?  How many have you contacted???  Are you ever going to release a number of coins affected???
I believe they are contacting all the people on their customer list.  Some of them may have been sold.  They can try to track down the new owners as best they can by asking who the coin was sold to but some of those trails may lead to dead ends.

Personally I think that's plenty of time. They messed up but like we've seen a hundred times in crypto, they aren't obligated to pay anyone back, they are doing so for reputation and courtesy.

Lol, wait so if i steal hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin, im under no obligation to give it back other than by courtesy.  So these guys now should be praised , wtf has this come to....

People who tucked these away for their kids will be quite shocked when everyone gets around to checking these.  Being out of business for 2 years i wouldnt be checking their website.  Should i check casascius website every month now just in case Huh

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March 09, 2017, 04:40:24 PM
 #74

AlitinMint said:
Quote
"we will offer this refund until April 5, 2017.  After this date, and due to the price volatility of Bitcoin, we simply cannot be sure we will have the funds necessary to refund stolen BTC. "
Really?  You're at fault and you set a very short window to claim.  There are probably only 4-5 people who have claimed at this point.  That's ridiculous!

Have you notified ALL of the owners?  How many have you contacted???  Are you ever going to release a number of coins affected???
I believe they are contacting all the people on their customer list.  Some of them may have been sold.  They can try to track down the new owners as best they can by asking who the coin was sold to but some of those trails may lead to dead ends.

Personally I think that's plenty of time. They messed up but like we've seen a hundred times in crypto, they aren't obligated to pay anyone back, they are doing so for reputation and courtesy.

Lol, wait so if i steal hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin, im under no obligation to give it back other than by courtesy.  So these guys now should be praised , wtf has this come to....

People who tucked these away for their kids will be quite shocked when everyone gets around to checking these.  Being out of business for 2 years i wouldnt be checking their website.  Should i check casascius website every month now just in case Huh
They have the contact information for all of their customers.
They are contacting their customers and refunding the BTC that were stolen.
How do I know this?  Because they refunded the BTC to me personally - as I have posted.
They are doing everything in their power to make this right.
They immediately admitted they screwed up and immediately set about making it right.
They should be praised for doing the right thing.
What is your problem?  Did you lose a lot of Bitcoin in this theft?

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 09, 2017, 04:41:59 PM
 #75

AlitinMint said:
Quote
"we will offer this refund until April 5, 2017.  After this date, and due to the price volatility of Bitcoin, we simply cannot be sure we will have the funds necessary to refund stolen BTC. "
Really?  You're at fault and you set a very short window to claim.  There are probably only 4-5 people who have claimed at this point.  That's ridiculous!

Have you notified ALL of the owners?  How many have you contacted???  Are you ever going to release a number of coins affected???

At this point they are probably doing what their lawyers tell them to do.

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March 09, 2017, 04:42:59 PM
 #76

Burt, sorry no.  Im glad they are doing what they are doing.  Nevermind i will let the people directly affected with this breach comment.  

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March 09, 2017, 04:50:22 PM
 #77


Lol, wait so if i steal hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin, im under no obligation to give it back other than by courtesy. 

lol, you must be new here, ever heard of MtGox? Since you don't have skin in this game, go spend your time elsewhere.
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March 09, 2017, 04:51:45 PM
 #78

"Privately contacting customers".......... the shadiness continues.
What the hell are you talking about?  How would they publicly contact all their customers?  Are you expecting them to make all their customer contact information public?  Are you expecting them to give you copies of all of their correspondence with all of their customers?

And most likely will claim that XX amount of customers never responded back, etc....  less payback for them......
What in their behaviour so far has indicated any of this?  I understand you are jaded.  Most Bitcoin companies are fly by night operators and many of them are outright scams.  It looks like you personally may have scars in this area.  Give them a chance?

Hope they make all of the repayment transactions public...  
Again what the hell are you asking for here?  You want them to make all their refund transaction public to satisfy your curiosity?  Is this to be done against their customers wills?  I and others who want to will make our transactions public.  It would be WRONG to make all of them public against the wishes of their customers who do not want their transactions public.

Still waiting for that public address list......  Huh
This is also a customer privacy issue.  Some of their customers may not want the address on their coins to be publicly known.  It would be WRONG to do this without their customer's permission.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 09, 2017, 04:53:51 PM
 #79


Lol, wait so if i steal hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin, im under no obligation to give it back other than by courtesy. 

lol, you must be new here, ever heard of MtGox? Since you don't have skin in this game, go spend your time elsewhere.

Cool, noted.  So every man for themselves, if you got no skin in the game move along gotcha.  Glad we cant all stand up together we should just nik it out on our own.  Glad you got your funds back, but i think someone needs to stand up for the people that dont come on here every week, or rather meh, fuck them i got mine. Good luck to everyone i hope this all gets resolved well, later

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March 09, 2017, 04:58:10 PM
 #80

So a handful of people have been repaid the 2 BTC that was stolen from you. That's great, but you are still out hundreds of $'s in premium that you paid for your coin.  Meanwhile the physical bitcoin industry is left with a black eye over this event, and will likely discourage people buying funded coins from the many competent makers out there.  

We still have zero answers as far as how this could have happened, how many were impacted, and whether the rest of the keys are vulnerable.  This is either blatant theft, or criminal negligence. Either way, the last thing you guys should be doing is praising these people.  

For Alitin, this seems like a great way to spend $20-30K in good will making a few active collectors happy while riding off in the sunset with $100K+ in stolen bitcoins.  
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March 09, 2017, 05:08:14 PM
 #81


Lol, wait so if i steal hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin, im under no obligation to give it back other than by courtesy. 

lol, you must be new here, ever heard of MtGox? Since you don't have skin in this game, go spend your time elsewhere.

Cool, noted.  So every man for themselves, if you got no skin in the game move along gotcha.  Glad we cant all stand up together we should just nik it out on our own.  Glad you got your funds back, but i think someone needs to stand up for the people that dont come on here every week, or rather meh, fuck them i got mine. Good luck to everyone i hope this all gets resolved well, later

Okay drama queen. Next time don't enter a thread making assumptions on who's responsible. Because that's exactly what you just did. You're not sticking up for anyone, you're coming in making comments without facts, maybe that's what you consider "standing together."
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March 09, 2017, 05:18:22 PM
 #82

So a handful of people have been repaid the 2 BTC that was stolen from you. That's great, but you are still out hundreds of $'s in premium that you paid for your coin.  Meanwhile the physical bitcoin industry is left with a black eye over this event, and will likely discourage people buying funded coins from the many competent makers out there.  

We still have zero answers as far as how this could have happened, how many were impacted, and whether the rest of the keys are vulnerable.  This is either blatant theft, or criminal negligence. Either way, the last thing you guys should be doing is praising these people.  

For Alitin, this seems like a great way to spend $20-30K in good will making a few active collectors happy while riding off in the sunset with $100K+ in stolen bitcoins.  

Or they could be repaying to protect their reputation and to make things right, no one knows. It sucks all around, but most of these people bought when BTC was in the $200s-$300s, so at least they getting face value refunded at a much higher value.
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March 09, 2017, 05:34:20 PM
Last edit: March 09, 2017, 05:47:48 PM by wheelz1200
 #83


Lol, wait so if i steal hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin, im under no obligation to give it back other than by courtesy.

lol, you must be new here, ever heard of MtGox? Since you don't have skin in this game, go spend your time elsewhere.

Cool, noted.  So every man for themselves, if you got no skin in the game move along gotcha.  Glad we cant all stand up together we should just nik it out on our own.  Glad you got your funds back, but i think someone needs to stand up for the people that dont come on here every week, or rather meh, fuck them i got mine. Good luck to everyone i hope this all gets resolved well, later

Okay drama queen. Next time don't enter a thread making assumptions on who's responsible. Because that's exactly what you just did. You're not sticking up for anyone, you're coming in making comments without facts, maybe that's what you consider "standing together."

Fine you win, typical.    Moving on then and will forget this even happened, seems thats gonna be the way anyway

Edit: "making assumptions on who's responsible", either by way of thievery or negligence i know EXACTLY who is responsible.

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March 09, 2017, 05:51:13 PM
 #84

So a handful of people have been repaid the 2 BTC that was stolen from you. That's great, but you are still out hundreds of $'s in premium that you paid for your coin.  Meanwhile the physical bitcoin industry is left with a black eye over this event, and will likely discourage people buying funded coins from the many competent makers out there.  

We still have zero answers as far as how this could have happened, how many were impacted, and whether the rest of the keys are vulnerable.  This is either blatant theft, or criminal negligence. Either way, the last thing you guys should be doing is praising these people.  

For Alitin, this seems like a great way to spend $20-30K in good will making a few active collectors happy while riding off in the sunset with $100K+ in stolen bitcoins.  
I had attempted to get the FULL refund for coin paid.  And, they refused.  And, I was the one who noticed the funds stolen and notified them of this.  I guess I'm the bad guy again reporting this to them and ruining their reputation.   Undecided Lips sealed  It's rather pathetic that it was stolen by an "insider" and I get only "face value" back.  Yes, I got something.  I'm happy for that.  But, we still don't know what happened and afraid we may never know... 
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March 09, 2017, 06:08:42 PM
 #85

Or they could be repaying to protect their reputation ....
Reputation was gone with the first post., A coinmakers reputation is a trust thing.

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March 09, 2017, 07:17:21 PM
 #86

So a handful of people have been repaid the 2 BTC that was stolen from you. That's great, but you are still out hundreds of $'s in premium that you paid for your coin.  Meanwhile the physical bitcoin industry is left with a black eye over this event, and will likely discourage people buying funded coins from the many competent makers out there.  

We still have zero answers as far as how this could have happened, how many were impacted, and whether the rest of the keys are vulnerable.  This is either blatant theft, or criminal negligence. Either way, the last thing you guys should be doing is praising these people.  

For Alitin, this seems like a great way to spend $20-30K in good will making a few active collectors happy while riding off in the sunset with $100K+ in stolen bitcoins.  
I had attempted to get the FULL refund for coin paid.  And, they refused.  And, I was the one who noticed the funds stolen and notified them of this.  I guess I'm the bad guy again reporting this to them and ruining their reputation.   Undecided Lips sealed  It's rather pathetic that it was stolen by an "insider" and I get only "face value" back.  Yes, I got something.  I'm happy for that.  But, we still don't know what happened and afraid we may never know... 
I feel very happy/lucky to get my BTC back and I also got to keep the silver coin, which is still a work of art.  As we all know usually the outcome is that everyone gets shafted and never sees their BTC again.  That has happened to me many times to the tune of a lot of BTC.  To have a business, who has already closed up shop due to lack of sales, come back and even try to make things right is a breath of fresh air in this cesspool of scammers that gravitate to Bitcoin.

BTW I am not praising their security measures - they most obviously sucked at that.  What I am praising is their response to the theft.  It has been wonderful.  Light years ahead of the next best response that I personally endured - Bitfinex "spreading the pain" among all their customers.  Now, to be fair, Bitfinex is paying us all back over time out of their profits and own pockets and I appreciate that.  But here we have an immediate response and and immediate settlement.  Totally cool.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 10, 2017, 06:50:27 AM
 #87

It would be interesting to know a little more about the process for creating the public / private keys.

It could be that the thief is an insider, or that someone has figured out how to attack a number generator for a particular connected chain.
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March 10, 2017, 07:10:24 AM
 #88

It would be interesting to know a little more about the process for creating the public / private keys.

It could be that the thief is an insider, or that someone has figured out how to attack a number generator for a particular connected chain.

As most respectable coin makers wil tell you, you should never retain any copies of the private keys, and they should be destroyed after they are applied, so something like this would not be possible.

Plus the computer you are generating these keys with should NEVER touch the internet.

So a "connected" chain is a very bad idea.

thanks!

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March 10, 2017, 07:59:13 AM
 #89

It would be interesting to know a little more about the process for creating the public / private keys.

It could be that the thief is an insider, or that someone has figured out how to attack a number generator for a particular connected chain.
[quote

As most respectable coin makers wil tell you, you should never retain any copies of the private keys, and they should be destroyed after they are applied, so something like this would not be possible.

Plus the computer you are generating these keys with should NEVER touch the internet.

So a "connected" chain is a very bad idea.

thanks!
Thank you for this comment. that's really kind and appreciated.

you are right : all is based on what OP said ...   that's all.   so , if he need to refund few more guys  to have "few more guy who trust him" .... let's do this !   damn : if all precautions were taken, no problem were happend !    is private keys were properly destroyed or NOT ?
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March 16, 2017, 04:49:27 PM
 #90

Is there any progress on who is responsible?
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March 16, 2017, 07:35:52 PM
 #91

Is there any progress on who is responsible?

I have failed to get any more information than is already posted on this forum.

I want this list of 600 addresses published. I (and others) want to know exactly how many coins were affected. The fact that they are not doing this makes me believe there are more than ~60 coins/10% affected.

My only payment address: 1ZephertJThxkHih7XcaUHBkMSnvkTt5u
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March 16, 2017, 07:50:30 PM
 #92

Is there any progress on who is responsible?

I have failed to get any more information than is already posted on this forum.

I want this list of 600 addresses published. I (and others) want to know exactly how many coins were affected. The fact that they are not doing this makes me believe there are more than ~60 coins/10% affected.



yeah .. true  : as you can see they are even still for sale around few places on the web .... lol


IE: https://www.cryptodechange.com/product/alitin-silver-adam-smith/



i'm curious to see what would happen in case of buying some ....   Roll Eyes
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March 16, 2017, 08:26:41 PM
 #93

To my knowledge, this is the first time that pictures of these coins have been released. I have been given permission to post these, so you guys looking now are the first to see them.

Look at this freshly minted 2BTC, 2oz silver coin with Adam Smith, father of modern economics:

Security Schematic: https://www.alitinmint.com/Images/Schematic.png



Heads:


Tails (Simulated Bitcoin Address):


Feedback welcome!

Forgot to mention that they will publish all of the bitcoin addresses online and a status for each coin. Around 50 have been pre-sold. I am buying 5 myself.

They publish all of the public addresses on their website as they ship them. I got an early one because I am related to the artist and because I bought a larger amount.

I've been doing some digging.  This account rubs me the wrong way.  He posted information/photos about Alitin releases several times that was NEW information to the public.  What other coin producer doesn't do their own advertising? Strange, at the least.

ALL of his photos have been removed.  These photos (above and more in his post history) were available on 03/09/16. I'm sorry I didn't take screenshots of this.  I reviewed everything with "Alitin" in this forum tagged in it when the news of the breach hit me, you'll have to take my word for it, unless there's a better solution to proving this - if necessary. 

And the last two quotes above drive their own questions...  Where did this information come from? What happened to this list? Did it ever exist?

I don't know what else to do. I don't like driving a witchhunt, but something is weird here.

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March 16, 2017, 08:29:00 PM
 #94

IMO, a public address list for a coin release should be PUBLIC and posted somewhere for users to verify. 

I'm assuming there is some reason the list isn't shared yet and hopefully it's a good one.

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March 16, 2017, 08:33:27 PM
 #95

yeah .. true  : as you can see they are even still for sale around few places on the web .... lol

IE: https://www.cryptodechange.com/product/alitin-silver-adam-smith/

i'm curious to see what would happen in case of buying some ....   Roll Eyes

cryptodechange bought those directly from Alitin unfunded. He was sending BTC to the address before sending the coins out to people who purchased them. I think he is selling some of them unfunded if interested.
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March 16, 2017, 08:45:18 PM
 #96

yeah .. true  : as you can see they are even still for sale around few
Quote
""This is the first coin produced by Alitin Mint with only 600 produced! Each coin comes in a well presented display case along with a certificate of authentication, which is personally signed by Alitin administration. The private keys are engraved along the edging of the coin which is concealed and protected in a tamper proof case. Coins will be funded with 2.0 BTC by Crypto de Change upon delivery confirmation, as agreed with Alitin Mint.""
places on the web .... lol

IE: https://www.cryptodechange.com/product/alitin-silver-adam-smith/

i'm curious to see what would happen in case of buying some ....   Roll Eyes

cryptodechange bought those directly from Alitin unfunded. He was sending BTC to the address before sending the coins out to people who purchased them. I think he is selling some of them unfunded if interested.

ah ...; thank you for those clarifications then..

Edit:



yup: you're right , was missing this part :

Quote
""This is the first coin produced by Alitin Mint with only 600 produced! Each coin comes in a well presented display case along with a certificate of authentication, which is personally signed by Alitin administration. The private keys are engraved along the edging of the coin which is concealed and protected in a tamper proof case. Coins will be funded with 2.0 BTC by Crypto de Change upon delivery confirmation, as agreed with Alitin Mint.""



so: it become urgent to finaly have a clear listing...
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March 17, 2017, 12:57:16 AM
 #97

yeah .. true  : as you can see they are even still for sale around few places on the web .... lol

IE: https://www.cryptodechange.com/product/alitin-silver-adam-smith/

i'm curious to see what would happen in case of buying some ....   Roll Eyes

cryptodechange bought those directly from Alitin unfunded. He was sending BTC to the address before sending the coins out to people who purchased them. I think he is selling some of them unfunded if interested.

actually he waits til you received the coin and confirmed it was in good condition. I had one in the mail and received it two days after the theft. Thankfully cryptodechange refunded my 2btc immediately after we saw the thread.
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March 17, 2017, 03:34:27 PM
 #98

IMO, a public address list for a coin release should be PUBLIC and posted somewhere for users to verify. 

I agree.  I've tried to push for this to be the standard for quite some time now.  Buyers should really consider things like this when making their purchases.  If you can't trust the coin maker to be transparent about their liability, how can you trust them to keep your funds safe?


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March 17, 2017, 03:36:00 PM
 #99

IMO, a public address list for a coin release should be PUBLIC and posted somewhere for users to verify. 

I agree.  I've tried to push for this to be the standard for quite some time now.  Buyers should really consider things like this when making their purchases.  If you can't trust the coin maker to be transparent about their liability, how can you trust them to keep your funds safe?

To me it's starting to look like the founders were involved and assume that most buyers haven't checked their coins or aren't present here.
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March 17, 2017, 05:22:01 PM
 #100

They have done their bests to refunds the one that where ripped. and OP was kind by email.

(I don't even have the impacted serie, but another product they made after.)

~snip~


Which product are you referring to, if you don't mind? The Joan of Arc Coin, or is there something else that none of us are aware of..?

IMO, a public address list for a coin release should be PUBLIC and posted somewhere for users to verify. 


I have a feeling we will never see this list of 600 addresses. Enough requests have been made now.

My only payment address: 1ZephertJThxkHih7XcaUHBkMSnvkTt5u
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March 17, 2017, 05:28:55 PM
 #101

I have a feeling we will never see this list of 600 addresses. Enough requests have been made now.

He should at least say why he isn't releasing the list. Otherwise it seems very suspect that he is dodging the question altogether.  We've also heard very little about where the breach may have occurred.   
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March 17, 2017, 05:47:14 PM
 #102

I have a feeling we will never see this list of 600 addresses. Enough requests have been made now.

He should at least say why he isn't releasing the list. Otherwise it seems very suspect that he is dodging the question altogether.  We've also heard very little about where the breach may have occurred.   

Since the FBI is involved you should not expect any statements that are not approved by his lawyer. Saying nothing is certainly what his lawyer has advised. People talk when they should shut up and incriminate themselves all the time.

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March 18, 2017, 11:49:17 AM
 #103


Which product are you referring to, if you don't mind? The Joan of Arc Coin, or is there something else that none of us are aware of..?

yes joan of arc

Thanks for clarifying Smiley

My only payment address: 1ZephertJThxkHih7XcaUHBkMSnvkTt5u
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March 20, 2017, 04:13:02 PM
 #104

Communication from Richard has been very good ever since the breach and he promptly refunded the BTC for my Adam Smith.  I didn't have the heart (or sense) to crack open the remaining Adam Smith and my 2 x Joans and they have remained funded.

If we ever receive the list of Alitin coin addresses how easy is it to set up a analyser like the one for Casascius?  This would be so useful.
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March 20, 2017, 04:45:36 PM
 #105

Communication from Richard has been very good ever since the breach and he promptly refunded the BTC for my Adam Smith.  I didn't have the heart (or sense) to crack open the remaining Adam Smith and my 2 x Joans and they have remained funded.

If we ever receive the list of Alitin coin addresses how easy is it to set up a analyser like the one for Casascius?  This would be so useful.

So you cracked 1 open and are leaving the other one unopened.  Its gonna be a tough resell if you ever want to part with it.  Undecided

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March 20, 2017, 06:05:06 PM
 #106

Communication from Richard has been very good ever since the breach and he promptly refunded the BTC for my Adam Smith.  I didn't have the heart (or sense) to crack open the remaining Adam Smith and my 2 x Joans and they have remained funded.

If we ever receive the list of Alitin coin addresses how easy is it to set up a analyser like the one for Casascius?  This would be so useful.

So you cracked 1 open and are leaving the other one unopened.  Its gonna be a tough resell if you ever want to part with it.  Undecided

You are absolutely right but i had no intentions of selling. They were heirlooms for my 2 daughters in 20 years time.  Who knows if they will be worth anything.
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March 21, 2017, 11:04:41 AM
 #107

but it could be a footnote with very low supply left Wink

(also have few casascius)

even a fail can have historic value.
This.  Mine are still in the cases.  They have no BTC and it is not safe to put any BTC on them but they are still beautiful works of art, mint in the case, and they still have the silver value.  So as a collectible they still have value.  Not worth selling at this point so I will just keep them, in the cases, for now.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 21, 2017, 02:24:16 PM
 #108

but it could be a footnote with very low supply left Wink

(also have few casascius)

even a fail can have historic value.
This.  Mine are still in the cases.  They have no BTC and it is not safe to put any BTC on them but they are still beautiful works of art, mint in the case, and they still have the silver value.  So as a collectible they still have value.  Not worth selling at this point so I will just keep them, in the cases, for now.

I agree with the fleeced ones, no need to open now but the ones that are loaded i would peel.  What if btc goes bananas and goes to  $10k  plus, dont think fleeced ones will ever command that much, but that is just me.

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March 21, 2017, 02:27:47 PM
 #109

but it could be a footnote with very low supply left Wink

(also have few casascius)

even a fail can have historic value.
This.  Mine are still in the cases.  They have no BTC and it is not safe to put any BTC on them but they are still beautiful works of art, mint in the case, and they still have the silver value.  So as a collectible they still have value.  Not worth selling at this point so I will just keep them, in the cases, for now.

I agree with the fleeced ones, no need to open now but the ones that are loaded i would peel.  What if btc goes bananas and goes to  $10k  plus, dont think fleeced ones will ever command that much, but that is just me.
This tough decision (whether to break open cases with BTC still on them) was made for me (all mine were empty).  I would probably break them open too.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 21, 2017, 04:59:34 PM
 #110

I have spoken with Mr. Forsyth. The following are two bits from him:

we sincerely want to win back lost trust--not just for ourselves, but for the community.  Bitcoin was founded partly on the notion that trust is too hard to come by, but I am certain we are all worse off without it.  When we first started, we realized we weren't just selling physical crypto.  We also knew we represented Bitcoin as ambassadors, and that many people we came in contact with would be initiates.  So this breach has hit us financially, but also on a very personal level.  We love the Cryptocurrency community for what it has and will accomplish, and we still believe in it.

We also hope that we can find anyone at all who has been effected by the breach so that we can make amends as best we can, and we hope for forgiveness from the public.  Though we strenuously assert our innocence in the matter, we are taking responsibility.

With this, I'm willing to give Alitin the benefit of the doubt and not jump to conclusions. As has been shown to me personally, hackers can be extremely cunning. I do believe that Mr. Forsyth and Alitin can come out of this with high levels of respect from the community. This is not Mark Hamilton of Coinographic infamy.

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March 21, 2017, 09:48:01 PM
 #111

I'm still highly suspicious. I think the founders emptied the coins. The fact that they paid everyone back before the investigation is definitely suspicious. If I were the founders I would wait to pay anyone back until we try to recover some of the coins or find out who did it. Would be easy to empty 100 coins, pay back 20 people and walk away with 160btc
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March 21, 2017, 10:13:38 PM
 #112

I'm not yet certain it was the founders, though I agree there is something suspicious going on.

I must imagine that insuring this kind of business would be prohibitively expensive if even possible (I truly do not know). So that makes Alitin's options: 1. Disappear 2. Repay immediately 3. Hope the perps are found and funds retrieved.  1. destroys their professional reputations in the cryptosphere and beyond.  2. If BTC price continues to rise, this is the smartest, cheapest option.  3. Funds retrieved is just so very highly unlikely and may leave them personally on the hook for the sum anyways.  They may be scamming us all or they may be taking the best option they have at the moment, though some more transparency would certainly help.

I'm still fairly certain that BTCINVESTOR is involved in all this somehow if not a Forsyth himself. His account post history, and statements made are eerily similar to private comms I've had with people at Alitin. 

At the very least, Alitin did not do their due diligence in having coins produced.  On the edge of a coin you can read "2013 Medallic Art Company".  This company was purchased years earlier by Northwest Territorial Mint. By the time Alitin had made the request to have these coins pressed there was already a slew of fraud and felony allegations and later convictions against Northwest Territorial Mint, some of which involved security issues.  For a physical BTC that was to be "the new standard" wouldn't you at least vet the process/company used to mint your coins? This took all of 5 minutes and some googling.   I'm not certain it was a Forsyth directly, but they have certainly directly profited from this whole thing. Fairly disgusting.
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March 21, 2017, 10:34:16 PM
Last edit: March 21, 2017, 10:54:36 PM by Zepher
 #113

I'm still highly suspicious. I think the founders emptied the coins. The fact that they paid everyone back before the investigation is definitely suspicious. If I were the founders I would wait to pay anyone back until we try to recover some of the coins or find out who did it. Would be easy to empty 100 coins, pay back 20 people and walk away with 160btc

You echo my thoughts exactly.

Being left with a raided (but intact) coin that was a favourite out of all my coins sucks. Majorly.

Nice to have a face value refund, but what about the other chunky premium I paid on top back in '14?

Besides all of that, the only people being paid back as those who have noticed the disappearance of their funds. What about those not on the forum and may not notice for months/years?? Are they screwed? It would seem that way.

To quote you, zanzibar:

Would be easy to empty 100 coins, pay back 20 people and walk away with 160btc.

Hate to say it, but the sheer lack of transparency is disturbing.



If you have nothing to hide, Alitin/Richard Forsythe, publish the list please so the total number of coins affected is visible for EVERYONE.

Edit: Thank you Ticked. That is certainly news worth knowing. Appreciate that.

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March 21, 2017, 10:50:52 PM
 #114

I'm not yet certain it was the founders, though I agree there is something suspicious going on.

I must imagine that insuring this kind of business would be prohibitively expensive if even possible (I truly do not know). So that makes Alitin's options: 1. Disappear 2. Repay immediately 3. Hope the perps are found and funds retrieved.  1. destroys their professional reputations in the cryptosphere and beyond.  2. If BTC price continues to rise, this is the smartest, cheapest option.  3. Funds retrieved is just so very highly unlikely and may leave them personally on the hook for the sum anyways.  They may be scamming us all or they may be taking the best option they have at the moment, though some more transparency would certainly help.

I'm still fairly certain that BTCINVESTOR is involved in all this somehow if not a Forsyth himself. His account post history, and statements made are eerily similar to private comms I've had with people at Alitin. 

At the very least, Alitin did not do their due diligence in having coins produced.  On the edge of a coin you can read "2013 Medallic Art Company".  This company was purchased years earlier by Northwest Territorial Mint. By the time Alitin had made the request to have these coins pressed there was already a slew of fraud and felony allegations and later convictions against Northwest Territorial Mint, some of which involved security issues.  For a physical BTC that was to be "the new standard" wouldn't you at least vet the process/company used to mint your coins? This took all of 5 minutes and some googling.   I'm not certain it was a Forsyth directly, but they have certainly directly profited from this whole thing. Fairly disgusting.
Interesting stuff there...

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 22, 2017, 12:08:35 AM
 #115

I'm not yet certain it was the founders, though I agree there is something suspicious going on.

I must imagine that insuring this kind of business would be prohibitively expensive if even possible (I truly do not know). So that makes Alitin's options: 1. Disappear 2. Repay immediately 3. Hope the perps are found and funds retrieved.  1. destroys their professional reputations in the cryptosphere and beyond.  2. If BTC price continues to rise, this is the smartest, cheapest option.  3. Funds retrieved is just so very highly unlikely and may leave them personally on the hook for the sum anyways.  They may be scamming us all or they may be taking the best option they have at the moment, though some more transparency would certainly help.

I'm still fairly certain that BTCINVESTOR is involved in all this somehow if not a Forsyth himself. His account post history, and statements made are eerily similar to private comms I've had with people at Alitin.  

At the very least, Alitin did not do their due diligence in having coins produced.  On the edge of a coin you can read "2013 Medallic Art Company".  This company was purchased years earlier by Northwest Territorial Mint. By the time Alitin had made the request to have these coins pressed there was already a slew of fraud and felony allegations and later convictions against Northwest Territorial Mint, some of which involved security issues.  For a physical BTC that was to be "the new standard" wouldn't you at least vet the process/company used to mint your coins? This took all of 5 minutes and some googling.   I'm not certain it was a Forsyth directly, but they have certainly directly profited from this whole thing. Fairly disgusting.

I have managed to get hold of 2 pictures of a coin that a friend owned. Thanks to hybridsole for these pics, they were taken by him. This coin was redeemed by him after the news broke, he was urged to just break the slab and get the 2 BTC. Its a chunk of money, and worth saving - though it does appear now that just one batch was targeted.

Look carefully and you will see that the engraving for the private key, and for the "2013 NWTM .999 SILVER" are in a completely different style, and therefore a different engraving machine was used for each - the key, and the NWTM Mint Mark.



Don't know how much extra helps this gives people, but every bit of extra info does I guess.

My opinion: NWTM didn't engrave these private keys. Just their NWTM Mint Stamp along with the 0.999 SILVER.

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March 22, 2017, 02:52:53 PM
 #116

I tought OP said he engraved the keys himself.

if they just sent this to engraving by a company, it's was a "not smart" choice.

and we have to know it. because the untouched coins are @ huge risks if it's the case.

if we can have an answer from OP regarding how they engraved the keys and who, we need it.

Yes, Richard said he engraved the private keys himself prior to slabbing. That's why I'm suspicious, they know the vulnerability of having private keys visible to multiple parties. I hate to think they did it, but usually the most obvious scenario turns out to be true. They are also confident that the Joanne coins were not affected from day one, so that also makes me suspicious.
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March 22, 2017, 02:58:45 PM
 #117

All I can say is that when my encyclopedia gets a new version, this chapter will be an interesting one  Shocked
To be clear, I'm not vouching for Mr. Forsyth, simply withholding judgment in hopes that he does everybody right.

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March 22, 2017, 05:22:40 PM
 #118

I asked him about the mint and the engraving, here is what he said:

Northwest Territory Mint had nothing to do with the engraving of codes to the coins.  We told everyone we met at every bitcoin conference we attended as an exhibitor that Northwest did our coin minting.  The process of engraving codes and casing the coins was done after they were received by us.  They played no part in our security process whatsoever.  

So, the mint is not one of the suspects.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 22, 2017, 06:22:30 PM
 #119

Never trust a private key that has been engraved.
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March 22, 2017, 07:20:27 PM
 #120

Never trust a private key that has been engraved.

OK, I'll bite.  Why?


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March 22, 2017, 07:29:14 PM
 #121

Never trust a private key that has been engraved.

As opposed to what, printed and placed under a hologram?
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March 23, 2017, 12:06:07 AM
 #122

Never trust a private key that has been engraved.

As opposed to what, printed and placed under a hologram?

- Engravers need to be programmed and you need to trust that programming is wiped.  If you hire someone to do it because good engraving equipment is expensive then you have to trust their setup and that they did not save the programming intentionally or unintentionally.  Only real way is to use an air-gaped system and properly wipe it after. 

- any imperfections on a metal surface can be seen using imaging equipment hologram or no hologram.
 
As opposed to an affordable printer that can be destroyed when done or one that doesn't save jobs to memory.
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March 23, 2017, 02:28:25 PM
 #123

Never trust a private key that has been engraved.

As opposed to what, printed and placed under a hologram?

- Engravers need to be programmed and you need to trust that programming is wiped.  If you hire someone to do it because good engraving equipment is expensive then you have to trust their setup and that they did not save the programming intentionally or unintentionally.  Only real way is to use an air-gaped system and properly wipe it after. 

- any imperfections on a metal surface can be seen using imaging equipment hologram or no hologram.
 
As opposed to an affordable printer that can be destroyed when done or one that doesn't save jobs to memory.
Good point.  I wonder if the private keys were programmed into the engraving machine and if so was that the point of failure.  Interesting idea.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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March 23, 2017, 03:43:03 PM
 #124

Never trust a private key that has been engraved.

As opposed to what, printed and placed under a hologram?

- Engravers need to be programmed and you need to trust that programming is wiped.  If you hire someone to do it because good engraving equipment is expensive then you have to trust their setup and that they did not save the programming intentionally or unintentionally.  Only real way is to use an air-gaped system and properly wipe it after. 

- any imperfections on a metal surface can be seen using imaging equipment hologram or no hologram.
 
As opposed to an affordable printer that can be destroyed when done or one that doesn't save jobs to memory.

lol, okay captain hindsight. Wait until people start peeling Casascius coins and paper is illegible.
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April 05, 2017, 02:23:07 PM
 #125

AlitinMint said:
Quote
"we will offer this refund until April 5, 2017.  After this date, and due to the price volatility of Bitcoin, we simply cannot be sure we will have the funds necessary to refund stolen BTC. "
Really?  You're at fault and you set a very short window to claim.  There are probably only 4-5 people who have claimed at this point.  That's ridiculous!

Have you notified ALL of the owners?  How many have you contacted???  Are you ever going to release a number of coins affected???

Cut-off day for refunds.. lolz
Funny how this "quote" has been deleted from the original posts from Alitin Huh
Hope everyone got refunded..... 

Look, here's Richard now......

Yeah, wonder how much BTC they pocketed. Maybe they can get a job with Finex.  Roll Eyes
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May 04, 2017, 10:26:02 AM
 #126

Just noticed about the breach today, 2 BTC inside seems gone.

https://blockchain.info/address/1Mh1Vvr5BtwA1s3GH3Dr7bfbao6sZdCmRJ

As i can see refund date already expired. What happens to victim that didnt aware about the breach?




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May 04, 2017, 10:29:42 AM
 #127

What happens to victim that didnt aware about the breach?
There is nothing you can do. Sorry.
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May 04, 2017, 10:51:05 AM
 #128

I wonder how the FBI investigation is going.
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May 04, 2017, 10:54:37 AM
 #129

I wonder how the FBI investigation is going.

LOL, was just thinking the same.




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May 04, 2017, 10:55:02 AM
 #130

Just noticed about the breach today, 2 BTC inside seems gone.

https://blockchain.info/address/1Mh1Vvr5BtwA1s3GH3Dr7bfbao6sZdCmRJ

As i can see refund date already expired. What happens to victim that didnt aware about the breach?

I'd recommend contacting them.
They might not refund the whole 2 BTC due to increase in price of BTC, but they might return some of it.
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May 04, 2017, 02:55:04 PM
 #131

Just noticed about the breach today, 2 BTC inside seems gone.

https://blockchain.info/address/1Mh1Vvr5BtwA1s3GH3Dr7bfbao6sZdCmRJ

As i can see refund date already expired. What happens to victim that didnt aware about the breach?


You are most likely the reason why these guys scammed their own coins. They figured that dozens of people wouldn't check in time.
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May 05, 2017, 01:07:21 AM
 #132

Just noticed about the breach today, 2 BTC inside seems gone.

https://blockchain.info/address/1Mh1Vvr5BtwA1s3GH3Dr7bfbao6sZdCmRJ

As i can see refund date already expired. What happens to victim that didnt aware about the breach?


You are most likely the reason why these guys scammed their own coins. They figured that dozens of people wouldn't check in time.

Ding ding ding

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