Alitin Mint Coin Breach

[hybridsole]

I have a feeling we will never see this list of 600 addresses. Enough requests have been made now.

He should at least say why he isn't releasing the list. Otherwise it seems very suspect that he is dodging the question altogether.  We've also heard very little about where the breach may have occurred.   

[1714182371]

1714182371

[1714182371]

1714182371

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

I have a feeling we will never see this list of 600 addresses. Enough requests have been made now.

He should at least say why he isn't releasing the list. Otherwise it seems very suspect that he is dodging the question altogether.  We've also heard very little about where the breach may have occurred.   

Since the FBI is involved you should not expect any statements that are not approved by his lawyer. Saying nothing is certainly what his lawyer has advised. People talk when they should shut up and incriminate themselves all the time.

[Zepher]

Which product are you referring to, if you don't mind? The Joan of Arc Coin, or is there something else that none of us are aware of..?

yes joan of arc

Thanks for clarifying

[bonefix]

Communication from Richard has been very good ever since the breach and he promptly refunded the BTC for my Adam Smith.  I didn't have the heart (or sense) to crack open the remaining Adam Smith and my 2 x Joans and they have remained funded.

If we ever receive the list of Alitin coin addresses how easy is it to set up a analyser like the one for Casascius?  This would be so useful.

[wheelz1200]

Communication from Richard has been very good ever since the breach and he promptly refunded the BTC for my Adam Smith.  I didn't have the heart (or sense) to crack open the remaining Adam Smith and my 2 x Joans and they have remained funded.

If we ever receive the list of Alitin coin addresses how easy is it to set up a analyser like the one for Casascius?  This would be so useful.

So you cracked 1 open and are leaving the other one unopened.  Its gonna be a tough resell if you ever want to part with it. 

[bonefix]

Communication from Richard has been very good ever since the breach and he promptly refunded the BTC for my Adam Smith.  I didn't have the heart (or sense) to crack open the remaining Adam Smith and my 2 x Joans and they have remained funded.

If we ever receive the list of Alitin coin addresses how easy is it to set up a analyser like the one for Casascius?  This would be so useful.

So you cracked 1 open and are leaving the other one unopened.  Its gonna be a tough resell if you ever want to part with it. 

You are absolutely right but i had no intentions of selling. They were heirlooms for my 2 daughters in 20 years time.  Who knows if they will be worth anything.

[BurtW]

but it could be a footnote with very low supply left

(also have few casascius)

even a fail can have historic value.

This.  Mine are still in the cases.  They have no BTC and it is not safe to put any BTC on them but they are still beautiful works of art, mint in the case, and they still have the silver value.  So as a collectible they still have value.  Not worth selling at this point so I will just keep them, in the cases, for now.

[wheelz1200]

but it could be a footnote with very low supply left

(also have few casascius)

even a fail can have historic value.

This.  Mine are still in the cases.  They have no BTC and it is not safe to put any BTC on them but they are still beautiful works of art, mint in the case, and they still have the silver value.  So as a collectible they still have value.  Not worth selling at this point so I will just keep them, in the cases, for now.

I agree with the fleeced ones, no need to open now but the ones that are loaded i would peel.  What if btc goes bananas and goes to  $10k  plus, dont think fleeced ones will ever command that much, but that is just me.

[BurtW]

but it could be a footnote with very low supply left

(also have few casascius)

even a fail can have historic value.

This.  Mine are still in the cases.  They have no BTC and it is not safe to put any BTC on them but they are still beautiful works of art, mint in the case, and they still have the silver value.  So as a collectible they still have value.  Not worth selling at this point so I will just keep them, in the cases, for now.

I agree with the fleeced ones, no need to open now but the ones that are loaded i would peel.  What if btc goes bananas and goes to  $10k  plus, dont think fleeced ones will ever command that much, but that is just me.

This tough decision (whether to break open cases with BTC still on them) was made for me (all mine were empty).  I would probably break them open too.

[elianite]

I have spoken with Mr. Forsyth. The following are two bits from him:

we sincerely want to win back lost trust--not just for ourselves, but for the community.  Bitcoin was founded partly on the notion that trust is too hard to come by, but I am certain we are all worse off without it.  When we first started, we realized we weren't just selling physical crypto.  We also knew we represented Bitcoin as ambassadors, and that many people we came in contact with would be initiates.  So this breach has hit us financially, but also on a very personal level.  We love the Cryptocurrency community for what it has and will accomplish, and we still believe in it.

We also hope that we can find anyone at all who has been effected by the breach so that we can make amends as best we can, and we hope for forgiveness from the public.  Though we strenuously assert our innocence in the matter, we are taking responsibility.

With this, I'm willing to give Alitin the benefit of the doubt and not jump to conclusions. As has been shown to me personally, hackers can be extremely cunning. I do believe that Mr. Forsyth and Alitin can come out of this with high levels of respect from the community. This is not Mark Hamilton of Coinographic infamy.

[zanzibar]

I'm still highly suspicious. I think the founders emptied the coins. The fact that they paid everyone back before the investigation is definitely suspicious. If I were the founders I would wait to pay anyone back until we try to recover some of the coins or find out who did it. Would be easy to empty 100 coins, pay back 20 people and walk away with 160btc

[Ticked]

I'm not yet certain it was the founders, though I agree there is something suspicious going on.

I must imagine that insuring this kind of business would be prohibitively expensive if even possible (I truly do not know). So that makes Alitin's options: 1. Disappear 2. Repay immediately 3. Hope the perps are found and funds retrieved.  1. destroys their professional reputations in the cryptosphere and beyond.  2. If BTC price continues to rise, this is the smartest, cheapest option.  3. Funds retrieved is just so very highly unlikely and may leave them personally on the hook for the sum anyways.  They may be scamming us all or they may be taking the best option they have at the moment, though some more transparency would certainly help.

I'm still fairly certain that BTCINVESTOR is involved in all this somehow if not a Forsyth himself. His account post history, and statements made are eerily similar to private comms I've had with people at Alitin. 

At the very least, Alitin did not do their due diligence in having coins produced.  On the edge of a coin you can read "2013 Medallic Art Company".  This company was purchased years earlier by Northwest Territorial Mint. By the time Alitin had made the request to have these coins pressed there was already a slew of fraud and felony allegations and later convictions against Northwest Territorial Mint, some of which involved security issues.  For a physical BTC that was to be "the new standard" wouldn't you at least vet the process/company used to mint your coins? This took all of 5 minutes and some googling.   I'm not certain it was a Forsyth directly, but they have certainly directly profited from this whole thing. Fairly disgusting.

[Zepher]

I'm still highly suspicious. I think the founders emptied the coins. The fact that they paid everyone back before the investigation is definitely suspicious. If I were the founders I would wait to pay anyone back until we try to recover some of the coins or find out who did it. Would be easy to empty 100 coins, pay back 20 people and walk away with 160btc

You echo my thoughts exactly.

Being left with a raided (but intact) coin that was a favourite out of all my coins sucks. Majorly.

Nice to have a face value refund, but what about the other chunky premium I paid on top back in '14?

Besides all of that, the only people being paid back as those who have noticed the disappearance of their funds. What about those not on the forum and may not notice for months/years?? Are they screwed? It would seem that way.

To quote you, zanzibar:

Would be easy to empty 100 coins, pay back 20 people and walk away with 160btc.

Hate to say it, but the sheer lack of transparency is disturbing.


If you have nothing to hide, Alitin/Richard Forsythe, publish the list please so the total number of coins affected is visible for EVERYONE.

Edit: Thank you Ticked. That is certainly news worth knowing. Appreciate that.

[BurtW]

I'm not yet certain it was the founders, though I agree there is something suspicious going on.

I must imagine that insuring this kind of business would be prohibitively expensive if even possible (I truly do not know). So that makes Alitin's options: 1. Disappear 2. Repay immediately 3. Hope the perps are found and funds retrieved.  1. destroys their professional reputations in the cryptosphere and beyond.  2. If BTC price continues to rise, this is the smartest, cheapest option.  3. Funds retrieved is just so very highly unlikely and may leave them personally on the hook for the sum anyways.  They may be scamming us all or they may be taking the best option they have at the moment, though some more transparency would certainly help.

I'm still fairly certain that BTCINVESTOR is involved in all this somehow if not a Forsyth himself. His account post history, and statements made are eerily similar to private comms I've had with people at Alitin. 

At the very least, Alitin did not do their due diligence in having coins produced.  On the edge of a coin you can read "2013 Medallic Art Company".  This company was purchased years earlier by Northwest Territorial Mint. By the time Alitin had made the request to have these coins pressed there was already a slew of fraud and felony allegations and later convictions against Northwest Territorial Mint, some of which involved security issues.  For a physical BTC that was to be "the new standard" wouldn't you at least vet the process/company used to mint your coins? This took all of 5 minutes and some googling.   I'm not certain it was a Forsyth directly, but they have certainly directly profited from this whole thing. Fairly disgusting.

Interesting stuff there...

[Zepher]

I'm not yet certain it was the founders, though I agree there is something suspicious going on.

I must imagine that insuring this kind of business would be prohibitively expensive if even possible (I truly do not know). So that makes Alitin's options: 1. Disappear 2. Repay immediately 3. Hope the perps are found and funds retrieved.  1. destroys their professional reputations in the cryptosphere and beyond.  2. If BTC price continues to rise, this is the smartest, cheapest option.  3. Funds retrieved is just so very highly unlikely and may leave them personally on the hook for the sum anyways.  They may be scamming us all or they may be taking the best option they have at the moment, though some more transparency would certainly help.

I'm still fairly certain that BTCINVESTOR is involved in all this somehow if not a Forsyth himself. His account post history, and statements made are eerily similar to private comms I've had with people at Alitin.  

At the very least, Alitin did not do their due diligence in having coins produced.  On the edge of a coin you can read "2013 Medallic Art Company".  This company was purchased years earlier by Northwest Territorial Mint. By the time Alitin had made the request to have these coins pressed there was already a slew of fraud and felony allegations and later convictions against Northwest Territorial Mint, some of which involved security issues.  For a physical BTC that was to be "the new standard" wouldn't you at least vet the process/company used to mint your coins? This took all of 5 minutes and some googling.   I'm not certain it was a Forsyth directly, but they have certainly directly profited from this whole thing. Fairly disgusting.

I have managed to get hold of 2 pictures of a coin that a friend owned. Thanks to hybridsole for these pics, they were taken by him. This coin was redeemed by him after the news broke, he was urged to just break the slab and get the 2 BTC. Its a chunk of money, and worth saving - though it does appear now that just one batch was targeted.

Look carefully and you will see that the engraving for the private key, and for the "2013 NWTM .999 SILVER" are in a completely different style, and therefore a different engraving machine was used for each - the key, and the NWTM Mint Mark.



Don't know how much extra helps this gives people, but every bit of extra info does I guess.

My opinion: NWTM didn't engrave these private keys. Just their NWTM Mint Stamp along with the 0.999 SILVER.

[zanzibar]

I tought OP said he engraved the keys himself.

if they just sent this to engraving by a company, it's was a "not smart" choice.

and we have to know it. because the untouched coins are @ huge risks if it's the case.

if we can have an answer from OP regarding how they engraved the keys and who, we need it.

Yes, Richard said he engraved the private keys himself prior to slabbing. That's why I'm suspicious, they know the vulnerability of having private keys visible to multiple parties. I hate to think they did it, but usually the most obvious scenario turns out to be true. They are also confident that the Joanne coins were not affected from day one, so that also makes me suspicious.

[elianite]

All I can say is that when my encyclopedia gets a new version, this chapter will be an interesting one  
To be clear, I'm not vouching for Mr. Forsyth, simply withholding judgment in hopes that he does everybody right.

[BurtW]

I asked him about the mint and the engraving, here is what he said:

Northwest Territory Mint had nothing to do with the engraving of codes to the coins.  We told everyone we met at every bitcoin conference we attended as an exhibitor that Northwest did our coin minting.  The process of engraving codes and casing the coins was done after they were received by us.  They played no part in our security process whatsoever.  

So, the mint is not one of the suspects.

[Hellot]

Never trust a private key that has been engraved.

[OgNasty]

Never trust a private key that has been engraved.

OK, I'll bite.  Why?