Who controls ETF?

[uneng]

I don't know much, but someone will say if bitcoin will be aprooved or not by this ETF. Who controls it?
If bitcoin be aprooved what this or these persons will want in return?

[1715495432]

1715495432

[Wind_FURY]

I am not sure how it is set up but I would assume that the company that was set up by the Winklevoss brothers control the ETF if it is approved. You do not have to worry about anything because the ETF will have no direct control over Bitcoin. What I think is the ETF is a gamble on Bitcoin future success so Bitcoin has more control of the ETF's future but not vice versa.

[Kakmakr]

To simplify thing, just look at it in this way, the Winklevoss brothers have applied for a ETF to make trading in Bitcoin easier for the "clueless" Wall street traders, who knows nothing about Bitcoin wallets and private keys. They just want to trade in another asset or commodity, without having to research everything about the complexities involved in the storing and safe keeping of bitcoin.

That is as simple as I can make it. The SEC has to approve this, before it can be implemented. ^hmmmmmm^

[Wind_FURY]

To simplify thing, just look at it in this way, the Winklevoss brothers have applied for a ETF to make trading in Bitcoin easier for the "clueless" Wall street traders, who knows nothing about Bitcoin wallets and private keys. They just want to trade in another asset or commodity, without having to research everything about the complexities involved in the storing and safe keeping of bitcoin.

That is as simple as I can make it. The SEC has to approve this, before it can be implemented. ^hmmmmmm^

It can be looked at that way but no. It is more like a derivative of Bitcoin. So it does not really mean that if you invest in the BTC ETF, you are automatically invested in Bitcoin. Do not forget theat the ETF's price can drop while BTC is going up and vice versa. These are two independent markets that have no direct connection.

[n0ne]

Every commodity, assets or shares cannot be incorporated into the world market. It has to fulfill certain regulatory requirements. As of now the same is taking place with bitcoin too, based on the approval it gets trading credibility for increased acceptance and using it in all forms.

[HabBear]

ETF isn't a company. It's a financial product. It's a structure of investment.

The control of an ETF depends on which ETF you're referring to, who owns that ETF and who's purchased shares in that ETF. The control is a balance between the owners and investors (customers) of the ETF...and the SEC I suppose.

Here's a definition for ETF: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/etf.asp

Most popular ETFs: http://etfdb.com/compare/volume/

BTW, contrary to what the guy quoted below thinks, the Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF and bitcoin itself are directly connected, and correlated. That's kind of (exactly) the point.

These are two independent markets that have no direct connection.

[Kakmakr]

To simplify thing, just look at it in this way, the Winklevoss brothers have applied for a ETF to make trading in Bitcoin easier for the "clueless" Wall street traders, who knows nothing about Bitcoin wallets and private keys. They just want to trade in another asset or commodity, without having to research everything about the complexities involved in the storing and safe keeping of bitcoin.

That is as simple as I can make it. The SEC has to approve this, before it can be implemented. ^hmmmmmm^

It can be looked at that way but no. It is more like a derivative of Bitcoin. So it does not really mean that if you invest in the BTC ETF, you are automatically invested in Bitcoin. Do not forget theat the ETF's price can drop while BTC is going up and vice versa. These are two independent markets that have no direct connection.

Yes, agreed. You might not be directly invested in Bitcoin because you do not have the private key to your share of the coins in the fund, but this still has a impact on the price. The two independent markets are still linked by the coins and the general price of Bitcoin in the open market.

The price difference will be negligible between the two. ^hmmmmmm^

[Yuuto]

I don't know much, but someone will say if bitcoin will be aprooved or not by this ETF. Who controls it?
If bitcoin be aprooved what this or these persons will want in return?

The United States Security and Exchanges commission(SEC) will decide it.

As the people above me have stated, bitcoin isn't the thing at stake of being approved or disapproved here. An ETF is an exchange traded fund, basically an investment fund owned by fund managers that can be traded across the market.

This particular ETF is directly related to bitcoin, which makes it the first bitcoin ETF to be approved if it was to be approved by the SEC.

Hope this helps

[Wind_FURY]

ETF isn't a company. It's a financial product. It's a structure of investment.

The control of an ETF depends on which ETF you're referring to, who owns that ETF and who's purchased shares in that ETF. The control is a balance between the owners and investors (customers) of the ETF...and the SEC I suppose.

Here's a definition for ETF: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/etf.asp

Most popular ETFs: http://etfdb.com/compare/volume/

BTW, contrary to what the guy quoted below thinks, the Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF and bitcoin itself are directly connected, and correlated. That's kind of (exactly) the point.

These are two independent markets that have no direct connection.

I do not think so. Would you think and say that the Bitcoin market on Bitstamp is directly connected with the ETF market in Wall Street? They are 2 different worlds, one can go up and down without affecting the price of the other.

[franky1]

ETF is separate to bitcoin.
ETF investors are buying shares of a companies 'stock' (collateral holding/product), not actual bitcoins(investors cannot ask for a privkey or withdraw btc from ETF).

there are many companies offering ETF's (the winklvoss twins being one of them)


yea the companies share prices can sky rocket. whereby investors realise that the companies 'collateral holding' is less than the companies speculative sky rocket price.

and thus COULD cause investors to then go and buy real bitcoins elsewhere (thus then affecting the real bitcoin price when they by on real bitcoin exchanges)

but thats all speculation

[Sundark]

ETF is only a way for companies and institution to invest into bitcoin indirectly. Because bitcoin is not a registered and licensed security business investors can't trade it.
Who controls ETF? The same people who controls every major joint-stock company, shareholders. The company is managed on behalf of the shareholders by a board of directors.

[erpbridge]

To simplify thing, just look at it in this way, the Winklevoss brothers have applied for a ETF to make trading in Bitcoin easier for the "clueless" Wall street traders, who knows nothing about Bitcoin wallets and private keys. They just want to trade in another asset or commodity, without having to research everything about the complexities involved in the storing and safe keeping of bitcoin.

That is as simple as I can make it. The SEC has to approve this, before it can be implemented. ^hmmmmmm^

But if it does get approved, can we expect the price to go up as it would be a big step forward for bitcoin as even people without any knowledge would be able to trade it ? Right now, thats the only problem that seems for it to be widespread.

[HabBear]

I do not think so. Would you think and say that the Bitcoin market on Bitstamp is directly connected with the ETF market in Wall Street? They are 2 different worlds, one can go up and down without affecting the price of the other.

Every investment product (e.g., an ETF) is directly connected to the asset it invests in (e.g., Bitcoin).

Your analogy is flawed. Bitstamp is an exchange. Wall Street (i.e., the NYSE) is an exchange. Both serve as a marketplace for different things. They're not connected. Your analogy doesn't apply to the Winklevoss ETF, which trades on Wall Street, and Bitcoin, which the those ETF trades on Wall Street are seeking to buy or sell a piece of.

If the Winklevoss ETF is investing purely in Bitcoin (no hedging, no additional securities or commodities included beyond Bitcoin), when Bitcoin goes down so will the Winklevoss ETF.

This article explains what these guys are trying to do with their Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust. https://moneymorning.com/2016/11/08/a-winklevoss-bitcoin-etf-guide-for-investors/.

Now, you can employ trading strategies with the ETF that will change the correlation which YOU and YOUR trades have to Bitcoin, but it doesn't change the direct correlation the Bitcoin ETF will have with Bitcoin.

For example, with any stock or ETF you can choose to buy and own shares ("a long position"), you can buy an option contract to purchase shares in the future at a set price ("a call"), you can buy an option contract to sell shares in the future at a set price ("a put", a "naked put" if you don't already own the shares), you can enforce combinations of calls and puts ("spread strategy", "straddle strategy"), you can buy shares using a loan ("a trade on margin"), etc. These are strategies available to any investment that trades in the stock market. And if the Bitcoin ETF becomes part of the stock market, these strategies will also be available.

I hope this helps clarify my comments. I'm happy to answer more questions.

This ETF will connect some investors on Wall Street to Bitcoin. It allows greater demand, which should raise the price for everyone. The important part is that this ETF likely won't be available to just anyone, you'll probably need to be a qualified investor ($5m in net worth, $1m in investable assets).

[Kakmakr]

I do not think so. Would you think and say that the Bitcoin market on Bitstamp is directly connected with the ETF market in Wall Street? They are 2 different worlds, one can go up and down without affecting the price of the other.

Every investment product (e.g., an ETF) is directly connected to the asset it invests in (e.g., Bitcoin).

Your analogy is flawed. Bitstamp is an exchange. Wall Street (i.e., the NYSE) is an exchange. Both serve as a marketplace for different things. They're not connected. Your analogy doesn't apply to the Winklevoss ETF, which trades on Wall Street, and Bitcoin, which the those ETF trades on Wall Street are seeking to buy or sell a piece of.

If the Winklevoss ETF is investing purely in Bitcoin (no hedging, no additional securities or commodities included beyond Bitcoin), when Bitcoin goes down so will the Winklevoss ETF.

This article explains what these guys are trying to do with their Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust. https://moneymorning.com/2016/11/08/a-winklevoss-bitcoin-etf-guide-for-investors/.

Now, you can employ trading strategies with the ETF that will change the correlation which YOU and YOUR trades have to Bitcoin, but it doesn't change the direct correlation the Bitcoin ETF will have with Bitcoin.

For example, with any stock or ETF you can choose to buy and own shares ("a long position"), you can buy an option contract to purchase shares in the future at a set price ("a call"), you can buy an option contract to sell shares in the future at a set price ("a put", a "naked put" if you don't already own the shares), you can enforce combinations of calls and puts ("spread strategy", "straddle strategy"), you can buy shares using a loan ("a trade on margin"), etc. These are strategies available to any investment that trades in the stock market. And if the Bitcoin ETF becomes part of the stock market, these strategies will also be available.

I hope this helps clarify my comments. I'm happy to answer more questions.

This ETF will connect some investors on Wall Street to Bitcoin. It allows greater demand, which should raise the price for everyone. The important part is that this ETF likely won't be available to just anyone, you'll probably need to be a qualified investor ($5m in net worth, $1m in investable assets).

This is why we love Bitcoin, because there is not a barrier to entry for the poor. You do not have to belong to the "Rich boy Club" to be able to trade in Bitcoin. The average Joe on the street can signup at an Bitcoin exchange and buy $10 worth of bitcoin and nobody will stop him or her from trading.

The ETF is a safe gateway to protect the rich from the volatility of Bitcoin investments.

[franky1]

But if it does get approved, can we expect the price to go up as it would be a big step forward for bitcoin as even people without any knowledge would be able to trade it ? Right now, thats the only problem that seems for it to be widespread.

to answer this (from another topic)

ETF investors are buying shares of a companies 'stock' (collateral holding/product), not actual bitcoins(investors cannot ask for a privkey or withdraw btc from ETF).

Are you sure?
Gold ETFs allow physical delivery if you own enough. 

not part of standard ETF terms. but the specific companies terms/side services

usually what happens is that you buy out a whole "basket" to remove the collateral of the trust to then get delivered.
or the ETF shares are sold, and then real BTC are bought (behind the scenes) via a side subsidiary service that delivers.

but thats just things the COMPANY may have policy/services behind the scenes

but in short.
lets say an ETF spikes to $2000
but real btc exchanges are still $1200

why would anyone buy say 20,000 shares (20 share=1btc equiv), costing $2mill(1000btc equiv).. to use the ETF subsiduary to withdraw that btc and reduce the ETF's collateral or be sold and converted behind the scenes to 'deliver' 1000btc.

where as the investor could sell the 20,000 and then take his $2m to a proper bitcoin exchange. and then buy 1666btc.. instead of 'get delivered' 1000btc

but as someone else said

This ETF will connect some investors on Wall Street to Bitcoin. It allows greater demand, which should raise the price for everyone. The important part is that this ETF likely won't be available to just anyone, you'll probably need to be a qualified investor ($5m in net worth, $1m in investable assets).

This is why we love Bitcoin, because there is not a barrier to entry for the poor. You do not have to belong to the "Rich boy Club" to be able to trade in Bitcoin. The average Joe on the street can signup at an Bitcoin exchange and buy $10 worth of bitcoin and nobody will stop him or her from trading.

The ETF is a safe gateway to protect the rich from the volatility of Bitcoin investments.

so most ETF investors wont buy out "basket" or sell and break their retirement fund contracts to buy real bitcoins cheaper. they will stay within the  'safe harbour' of regulated ETF to meet their clients retirement contract obligations and regulations.

however. people(not as wealthy) will/could see the ETF and then privately outside of their regulated retirement contract. buy real bitcoins on real exchanges.

but the purchasing of real bitcoins on real exchanges due to an ETF is just speculation.. i personally can see a increase of the real bitcoin price due to the advertising of ETF. but how much of an increase.. pfft no one can guess to any exact realistic number the impact

[HabBear]

I do not think so...one can go up and down without affecting the price of the other.

Ok, I just thought of a scenario where this would be true.

People buy and sell the shares of the ETF, that activity can cause the price of that ETF to rise and fall accordingly. This could present a scenario where the price per share of the ETF goes up or down on the same day that the price of bitcoin does the opposite.

Whether this is an exception to my point of view or full proof of yours is up for debate. We don't need to, btw, just calling out that you're scenario is possible.

[Idrisu]

ETF is an exchange trading fund. Like stock is an investment to be trade in stock exchange market. Who control it should not be a problem to you as bitcoin is a crypto currencies that is decentralized but ETF is centralized because there will be board of Directors and CEO before it can be register with sec.