Why Bitcoins is now same as paypal(and worst)

[cellard]

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?


Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

Paypal is a centralized system that doesn't require massive proof of work and a decentralized network of nodes in order to validate your transactions. Bitcoin (onchain) will forever be more expensive and slower than a centralized system like Paypal.

Your mistake is, you are comparing 2 unrelated things and you thought bitcoin would always be like it was when nobody used it.

No amount of onchain scaling will ever amount to anything near mainstream adoption, we need LN. This does not mean 1MB should be kept forever, but we first need segwit, then blocksize increase later on, and LN. Anything else is a scam and doesn't work.

[jonald_fyookball]

we first need segwit, then blocksize increase later on, and LN. Anything else is a scam and doesn't work.

if you believe eventually we will increase the blocksize, why don't we simply just increase the blocksize?  Why do we necessarily need segwit?  Because Adam Back says so?

[megynacuna]

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?


Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

What are you telling? who told you transactions less than 0.01 BTC not getting confirmed. Have you send any bitcoins less than that before?I think you havent. Thats why you are saying that . I always send 0.00100000 BTC to my another address for faucet payments. I havent come across unconfirmed transactions. Yeah , nowadays transactions are taking a longer time to get confirmed. Thats all.

So if you're aware that there are delays lately then why reprimand the OP, it's a big issue that needs urgent addressing because some of us have to wait for several hours and days to get confirmed.

[richardsNY]

we first need segwit, then blocksize increase later on, and LN. Anything else is a scam and doesn't work.

if you believe eventually we will increase the blocksize, why don't we simply just increase the blocksize?  Why do we necessarily need segwit?  Because Adam Back says so?

Because people simply don't agree to implement BU as they see SegWit as the only right solution. If people accept BU, it basically means that an entity can force through their own vision in Bitcoin at any time. If so, then right now it's BU, after that we'll see Bitcoin Real, after that Bitcoin Extreme, etc. Do you think that's a good thing for Bitcoin? We shouldn't accept such a thing to happen and thus should support SegWit.

[franky1]

Because people simply don't agree to implement BU as they see SegWit as the only right solution. If people accept BU, it basically means that an entity can force through their own vision in Bitcoin at any time. If so, then right now it's BU, after that we'll see Bitcoin Real, after that Bitcoin Extreme, etc. Do you think that's a good thing for Bitcoin? We shouldn't accept such a thing to happen and thus should support SegWit.

your mixing your attacker

going soft can force though blockstreams own vision..
thats why they need segwit
to force through a special biased commercial version of "elements/lighning" LN
force through Schnorr
force through mimblewimble

but they use 'softer' words to stroke you to sleep to make it not seem bad.

bitcoin should user real CONSENSUS. not bypassing it to add in any crazy feature without nodes able to vote or veto it.

[mindrust]

Well, we have now to send transactions with a fee $1-$10 otherwise the transaction will never get confirmed

Just telling you, don't waste your time posting a thread on tech problems section

Even now transactions with less than 0.01 BTC will never get confirmed(or it will take longer)

You delvs didn't trough this could happend if the bitcoins went up the market?


Yeah, but good thing that I cashed out my bitcoins earlier haha.

Dude, what does Paypal has to do with this?

I never spent a cent in transaction fees with Paypal...

Paypal has much to do with this. You may not pay paypal any fees but their currency conversion rates are beyond absurd. They are different kind of thieves.

Those increased fees on bitcoin is clearly a design flaw and will be the end of this bitcoin thing.

[ebliever]

we first need segwit, then blocksize increase later on, and LN. Anything else is a scam and doesn't work.

if you believe eventually we will increase the blocksize, why don't we simply just increase the blocksize?  Why do we necessarily need segwit?  Because Adam Back says so?

If bitcoin is going to compete with Visa and MasterCard, or even Paypal, boosting the blocksize is not going to do it. Going to a blocksize that gives 30 or even 300 TX/sec is still far too little. So we need to accept the reality of off-chain TX and figure out the best way to do those TX within the spirit and protocols of bitcoin.

Whether it is Segwit/LN, or merchants tying up with exchanges (I'm basically certain Purse is not doing an on-chain TX when I shift funds from my Coinbase account to my Purse account, for example), off-chain TX are going to be dominant going forward. The "big block" folks don't seem to be looking beyond the immediate fee crunch and are not offering a good roadmap, unless the map is for Bitcoin---> oblivion while other cryptos rise in its place.

[Vaccinus]

i agree that now bitcoin is same as paypal for the quantity of fee you need, paypal is 3.5%, which mean that for small transaction it's nothing, but for bigger transaction is quite a pain, with bitcoin it's the opposite, high fee with small amount and not so high with high amount

[franky1]

If bitcoin is going to compete with Visa and MasterCard, or even Paypal, boosting the blocksize is not going to do it. Going to a blocksize that gives 30 or even 300 TX/sec is still far too little. So we need to accept the reality of off-chain TX and figure out the best way to do those TX within the spirit and protocols of bitcoin.

Whether it is Segwit/LN, or merchants tying up with exchanges (I'm basically certain Purse is not doing an on-chain TX when I shift funds from my Coinbase account to my Purse account, for example), off-chain TX are going to be dominant going forward. The "big block" folks don't seem to be looking beyond the immediate fee crunch and are not offering a good roadmap, unless the map is for Bitcoin---> oblivion while other cryptos rise in its place.

oh here we go again "visa by midnight" scare stories

bitcoin will not compete against visa, mastercard or paypal overnight.. even with LN

bitcoins user adoption is natural slow adoption over years not hours.
halting natural growth onchain for the last 2 years using fake rhetorics about visa is FOOLISH.

bitcoin should be allowed to grow NATURALLY onchain progressively over decades. where by LN is just a side voluntary service.
halting all onchain growth for years is not about helping bitcoin achieve better scaling. its about frustrating users into blindly accepting the "elements/lightning" commercialised version of LN service as the end goal and only option blockstream will allow

LN (the many non blockstream/elements/lightning ) versions DO NOT NEED segwit, and can work as voluntary side services.. not essential end solution

[UDC]

i agree that now bitcoin is same as paypal for the quantity of fee you need, paypal is 3.5%, which mean that for small transaction it's nothing, but for bigger transaction is quite a pain, with bitcoin it's the opposite, high fee with small amount and not so high with high amount

on the other hand paypal has reduced fees for microtransactions. So if delays or even fees keep increasing, btc becomes less useful for regular users (vs. investors/speculators that move larger amounts).

[jonald_fyookball]

we first need segwit, then blocksize increase later on, and LN. Anything else is a scam and doesn't work.

if you believe eventually we will increase the blocksize, why don't we simply just increase the blocksize?  Why do we necessarily need segwit?  Because Adam Back says so?

If bitcoin is going to compete with Visa and MasterCard, or even Paypal, boosting the blocksize is not going to do it. Going to a blocksize that gives 30 or even 300 TX/sec is still far too little. So we need to accept the reality of off-chain TX and figure out the best way to do those TX within the spirit and protocols of bitcoin.

Whether it is Segwit/LN, or merchants tying up with exchanges (I'm basically certain Purse is not doing an on-chain TX when I shift funds from my Coinbase account to my Purse account, for example), off-chain TX are going to be dominant going forward. The "big block" folks don't seem to be looking beyond the immediate fee crunch and are not offering a good roadmap, unless the map is for Bitcoin---> oblivion while other cryptos rise in its place.

You haven't given any reason why we need to accept 'reality of off-chain' at any certain TPS level...but lets say for the sake of argument that we accept that premise.

Even then -- you still haven't give any reason why we shouldn't increase blocks first.  Iow, lets increase the blocks now and worry about off chain stuff later.  That general roadmap has been offered plenty of times and there's no reason to believe its a bad one.

[roober]

At the moment, no there are more convenient international payment method than Bitcoin. PayPal may work well in the U.S., but for many countries this is a huge problem. PayPal permanently blocked accounts with stupid requests and confirmations. Alternatives to Bitcoin for today simply does not exist.

[lexing]

I've got a transaction and the miners fee is 0.0007BTC I don't know why it's already 12 hrs and not yet confirmed 
It's pissin' me off.

[bettercrypto]

I've got a transaction and the miners fee is 0.0007BTC I don't know why it's already 12 hrs and not yet confirmed  
It's pissin' me off.

This kind of event is getting worst each day.   I have my tranasction still unconfirmed even if I setup a higher average fee i electrum which in the past days gets confirmed in a matter of less than 30 min.  I do not know if this is intentional from the miners to pick transaction above x satoshi transaction fee, I hope the solution for this will be implemented soon.  

[XbladeX]

I've got a transaction and the miners fee is 0.0007BTC I don't know why it's already 12 hrs and not yet confirmed  
It's pissin' me off.

This kind of event is getting worst each day.   I have my tranasction still unconfirmed even if I setup a higher average fee i electrum which in the past days gets confirmed in a matter of less than 30 min.  I do not know if this is intentional from the miners to pick transaction above x satoshi transaction fee, I hope the solution for this will be implemented soon.  

I hope that developers and miners will see problem and solve it.
Even i want hard for today and let market decide where we go staing in place makes shit worse over time.
If bitcoin doesn't change it wil fail like many IT projects. Who remembers today napster,AOL,DC++
If bicon won't evolve it will end like those projects ABANDONED

***
Bitcoin have its value because people can use it more people can use it more price rise.
Today we have cap no more users can join - sorry but this is true.
Price cap will follow soon. Why we should pay for BTC transaction 1$

PS:I always smile when BTC devs are talking how they go to Africa promote Bitcoin while today fee is equal day salary there or more HAHAHA

PPS: to create Ponzi scheme (like Bitcoin ) you need next 2 guys who will come buy your shares : ) today no one can come and buy it . Do you think that Ponzi will last in that environment  ? Who is last on that ponzi chain today ? I feel like I am haha
Bitcoin 2013 is not failed bitcoin form 2017 - it will change or die naturally and alts will eat it smelling fresh meat.

[rizkyhiw]

i got interesting experience ,
when i used an online wallet like blockchain.info wallet or mycellium it's indeed annoying frequently the confirmation takes very long time
but everytime i withdraw from my exchange vip.bitcoin.id i never get the delay/long confirmation
i don't know if there is something difference but it was a fact i have made more than 100 transaction between vip bitcoin exchanger and poloniex exchanger
all of the transaction went well with fast confirmation. someone can explain this?

[Arcteryx]

If bitcoin ever becomes like paypal has become then I will definitely take a hard look at what other coin I will use from then on in. Cause these transactions fees lately have been making it very difficult to use and the confirmation times in the last week have been just horrendous.

[emezh10]

I think no. Bitcoin unconfirmed transactions is due to a heavy traffic in bitcoin network and for paypal there are dispute in every transactions which are very risky, But as of now the bitcoin transaction that in the traffic of the network will be release no matter what in takes some times only I think 1 hour - 7 days, Based on my experience but in overall I think that is normal and this issue will be solved as soon as possible.

[deppil]

I've got a transaction and the miners fee is 0.0007BTC I don't know why it's already 12 hrs and not yet confirmed 
It's pissin' me off.

yeah sometimes with substantial fee even if it does not guarantee you will get a confirmation prompt maybe you send a large amount of bitcoin. so it takes a long time for confirmation

[UCHCHILD]

How can you say that it is the same with paypal?? Any support from OP for this?
I guess you need to know how the business works on, how blockchain or any transaction website will run if there is no fee given by its users, they have to pay something out there.

And yes you need to pay high fee so you will be prioritize by the system.