Cup of Coffee

[vm_mpn]

May I suggest to those of you who want to buy a cup of coffee with bitcoin to purchase damn coffee shop instead... This way you can enjoy your own coffee all day long, and stop chasing fantasies of making this world more fair and better place to live. Buying a few pizzas with Bitcoin proven to be very expensive proposition back in 2010, and it looks like we just refusing to let this idea go.

Bitcoin is prohibitive for a reason: it's valuable (according to free and heavily manipulated markets), it rides vast and expensive to maintain blockchain (Go BitFury and Bitmain!), it has high fees not only to prevent spam, but to reward miners in exchange for diminishing block rewards moving forward (Greedy Bastards!). Looks perfect to me, but then again - I'm an idiot so do not take this personally.       

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin was always supposed to be digital cash.  It even says so in the original white paper title.

Where did this myth start that we need to 'let this go'?

[shinratensei_]

Bitcoin is prohibitive for a reason: it's valuable (according to free and heavily manipulated markets), it rides vast and expensive to maintain blockchain (Go BitFury and Bitmain!), it has high fees not only to prevent spam, but to reward miners in exchange for diminishing block rewards moving forward (Greedy Bastards!). Looks perfect to me, but then again - I'm an idiot so do not take this personally.       

I'm with you. In this time the reliable fees for to make a transaction is $0.6.
There is no fast transaction, cheap transaction and anything like that.

[cpfreeplz]

Bitcoin was always supposed to be digital cash.  It even says so in the original white paper title.

Where did this myth start that we need to 'let this go'?

No one uses cash at starbucks. It's all phones, credit cards and debit cards. Try and buy a beer on a plane. They don't take cash. So saying it's like digital cash is a little outdated at this point. We're dealing with digital gold.

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin was always supposed to be digital cash.  It even says so in the original white paper title.

Where did this myth start that we need to 'let this go'?

It doesn't matter what use cases were described in the original white paper it it has been what 8 years now? Things have changed Satoshi is gone, block size is 1mb, double spending is a thing and easy to do and merchants shouldn't be expected to wait 10 minutes in a physical store. Bitcoin no longer makes sense as a digital cash and never did for in store use with 10 minute blocks.

3 years ago if you asked "isnt 10 minute confirmations and double spends a problem", you'd have 10 people explaining that credit cards don't confirm for days, that double spends are difficult and risky.  There are solutions to detect double spending by querying the mempool.  Unfortunately these are not effective if there's heavy network congestion since a doublespend can be attempted much later with a higher fee. 

It is really sad that we still have a 1mb block in 2017 but it won't last much longer.

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin was always supposed to be digital cash.  It even says so in the original white paper title.

Where did this myth start that we need to 'let this go'?

It doesn't matter what use cases were described in the original white paper it it has been what 8 years now? Things have changed Satoshi is gone, block size is 1mb, double spending is a thing and easy to do and merchants shouldn't be expected to wait 10 minutes in a physical store. Bitcoin no longer makes sense as a digital cash and never did for in store use with 10 minute blocks.

3 years ago if you asked "isnt 10 minute confirmations and double spends a problem", you'd have 10 people explaining that credit cards don't confirm for days, that double spends are difficult and risky.  There are solutions to detect double spending by querying the mempool.  Unfortunately these are not effective if there's heavy network congestion since a doublespend can be attempted much later with a higher fee. 

It is really sad that we still have a 1mb block in 2017 but it won't last much longer.

I just don't see the point of a merchant to accept Bitcoin, the amount of Bitcoin users is small and the amount willing to use it like cash daily is a lot smaller. The merchant has to have a confirmation or take the burden of risk, the fees to have it converted to fiat instantly makes it uncompetitive or they have to worry that the $30 they received for a meal is worth $20 by the time they are able to exchange it.

The user doesn't have many advantages for using it as a daily currency either, they have to keep converting fiat to Bitcoin, they need to either be up or down with how much they have to spend and have no way to fight against it. They have to deal with almost no merchants accepting it in person, if they hold it on their phone they have to be extra secure with their app downloads.

I mean Google wallet now allows free transfers to anyone via email and directly into their bank account, it is easy for merchants to accept without fees and gained mass acceptance over night as a merchant doesn't that sound like the obvious choice?

1. Yes if Google wallet is truly free (which I'm not sure it is) it makes more sense in the short term.  It may not always be free, and wouldnt you want a currency of the people for the people, not big brother google and the banking system

2. I have serious doubts that Bitcoin can survive as a store of value without the high usability/utility and widespread adoption.  You agree the amount of users is small -- why would anyone think it will retain its store of value if the user base can't grow.  Sounds like a tulip bulb.
 

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Bitcoin was always supposed to be digital cash.  It even says so in the original white paper title.

Where did this myth start that we need to 'let this go'?

No one uses cash at starbucks. It's all phones, credit cards and debit cards. Try and buy a beer on a plane. They don't take cash. So saying it's like digital cash is a little outdated at this point. We're dealing with digital gold.

LOL.  I definitely use cash at Starbucks,  but I realize I'm in the minority here.  I do agree with OP that it is better to use fiat, because I *think* bitcoin is going up.  We're not exactly in the 10,000 btc/pizza era anymore,  but we're still going up.   Why spend digital gold?

Edit: hey, you're a hero member now, congrats!

[pereira4]

Bitcoin was always supposed to be digital cash.  It even says so in the original white paper title.

Where did this myth start that we need to 'let this go'?

No coin can scale at worldwide levels while allowing coffee-tier fast and cheap transactions onchain without massive node centralization.

Gold-tier transactions and long term storage = on-chain
Coffee-tier fast velocity big volume transactions = off-chain

Those are the objective facts. If there was a coin that could offer fast, cheap, massive volume onchain transactions while maintaining a small block size so people can run nodes to guarantee a decentralized network then whoever creates that becomes the next bill gates overnight and I retire in some island with a couple billion dollars from a small 10 buck investment. Unfortunately that is sci-fi today, so best we got is Core + segwit + LN.
You can't call something cash if the nodes are so big that the network becomes centralized, and you would need huge blocks to cater for coffee-tier mainstream level transactions.

Those are the facts that delusional big blockers fail to realize.

[jonald_fyookball]

stuff you pasted before in another thread

funny, Bitcoin seemed to be working just fine for both big and small transactions, right before blocks got congested at the artificial 1mb limit.

How about you let Bitcoin try to scale and let the free market decide if it wants to be on chain or off chain... instead of trying to force your
will on the people with these block limits?

[Nrcewker]

so which coffee shop in global could accept bitcoin? 

[Mvaporis1961]

Well I think if you are going to use Bitcoin as payment for a cup of coffee or something,
I think it will only need to have at least 1 confirmation,
And for the price since the bitcoin price keeps on fluctuating I think it needs to be convertered in to the currency that they are using in their country.

[RoommateAgreement]

nobody wants to buy a cup of coffee with bitcoin, or maybe there are some people who wish they could and if you let them, they will.

but everyone wants to be able to use bitcoin as a currency. for example i want to be able to purchace a game online (worth from $5 to $50) or be able to pay for my subscription etc. and a lot more.

[vm_mpn]

1. Yes if Google wallet is truly free (which I'm not sure it is) it makes more sense in the short term.  It may not always be free, and wouldnt you want a currency of the people for the people, not big brother google and the banking system
  

2. I have serious doubts that Bitcoin can survive as a store of value without the high usability/utility and widespread adoption.  You agree the amount of users is small -- why would anyone think it will retain its store of value if the user base can't grow.  Sounds like a tulip bulb.
 

1. This goal has been achieved in my opinion. I actually fear for Bitcoin when her threat is fully realized by the establishment.

2. I'm not sure micro transactions played an important part of Bitcoin growth these past few years. If anything Bitcoin organically becoming store of value (still highly speculative asset I admit) where every transaction striving to be financially justifiable. Is it worth to risk stability, high value and scarcity of Bitcoin in exchange for micro payments for the masses (at least at the moment)? Can we think of any other crypto currency offering seconds of confirmation time, much higher throughput and flexibility?

That said I understand your point, and sympathize with bitcoiners who adopt different philosophy, shining their bright light ahead of an uneasy path for the rest of us to see (lol... how poetic)

[Kakmakr]

Bitcoin was always supposed to be digital cash.  It even says so in the original white paper title.

Where did this myth start that we need to 'let this go'?

No one uses cash at starbucks. It's all phones, credit cards and debit cards. Try and buy a beer on a plane. They don't take cash. So saying it's like digital cash is a little outdated at this point. We're dealing with digital gold.

Well they actually use Starbucks' Star tokens to buy the coffee, if you really want to be technical. I have always said, if you want to use Bitcoin to buy coffee, just implement a token system at your place and let people buy these tokens in advance.

Whilst these miners are screwing us with high fees, we should find other alternatives to bypass these high fees and use Bitcoin as it was meant to be used. ^grrrrrrr^

[pooya87]

what is up with all the Coffee topics in this board and generally these days?

i am not supporting the idea of "we need to be able to buy coffee with bitcoin" but i remember the days where people were dreaming about that day and were more acceptant towards spending bitcoin for buying stuff in general and nobody were calling bitcoin "store of value only" or "bitcoin for the rich and high value transactions"

https://www.google.com/search?q=use+bitcoin+to+buy+groceries

the days when people were happy to buy groceries or when they bought a $25 pizza with bitcoin without saying all the things you only hear today!!!

even more: https://www.google.com/search?q=use+bitcoin+to+buy+groceries+site%3Abitcointalk.org

[Xester]

May I suggest to those of you who want to buy a cup of coffee with bitcoin to purchase damn coffee shop instead... This way you can enjoy your own coffee all day long, and stop chasing fantasies of making this world more fair and better place to live. Buying a few pizzas with Bitcoin proven to be very expensive proposition back in 2010, and it looks like we just refusing to let this idea go.

Bitcoin is prohibitive for a reason: it's valuable (according to free and heavily manipulated markets), it rides vast and expensive to maintain blockchain (Go BitFury and Bitmain!), it has high fees not only to prevent spam, but to reward miners in exchange for diminishing block rewards moving forward (Greedy Bastards!). Looks perfect to me, but then again - I'm an idiot so do not take this personally.       

You have a point there. When we are going to buy a cup of coffee using bitcoin the mining fee is much of worth than the coffee itself. So I also suggest that we should use fiat currency or paper money in purchasing things that have small value then we can use bitcoin to buy things that has a higher value. There are no solutions to the problems in bitcoin yet and so at this moment let us just stay away from miniscule transactions.

[Amph]

nobody wants to buy a cup of coffee with bitcoin, or maybe there are some people who wish they could and if you let them, they will.

but everyone wants to be able to use bitcoin as a currency. for example i want to be able to purchace a game online (worth from $5 to $50) or be able to pay for my subscription etc. and a lot more.

well you can already do that , steam is accepting bitcoin since a year already did you miss this?, or mayeb your point was that for very cheap game would be like buyign the coffe

because the fee would kill the cost of the game, for example on steam there are some game that are worth less than $1, and paying $1 to purchase one would be paying it 2x

[CraigWrightBTC]

Well buy a cup of coffee use bitcoin as payment method is bad ideas because
the fees transaction will be more expensive than price of coffee it self,
 it is because of block size bitcoin and become the problem without solution right now,
bitcoin is not suitable for small amount of transaction like buy coffee use bitcoin.

[dinofelis]

Bitcoin was always supposed to be digital cash.  It even says so in the original white paper title.
Where did this myth start that we need to 'let this go'?

Realism.  If I write a paper that starts with "airplanes are made to go to the moon", it turns out that you can fly with an airplane, but that airplane tech is never going to get you to the moon.

The way bitcoin was constructed makes it impossible to use as digital cash (note that DASH won't be digital cash either, it is bitcoin with extras: tumblers and mem pool certification - I say this because of the name).
A block chain having each and every transaction ever to be had by the users and proof of work that must be more expensive than the value of what is secured by it, can never be "digital cash".  Moreover, there are monetary parameters (block reward halving shocks, block size limits....) that make that this is not going to be a high-liquidity asset but a speculative asset.

In other words, bitcoin's DESIGN, from the start, made that this was not going to be digital cash.

Now, whether the designers (Satoshi) didn't realize the power of immutability and thought that one could change things on the fly in the sense "let us already start with this test version, and move on", or whether they were more sophisticated and somewhat less honest in their sayings, is an open question - my idea is rather the former, but I don't exclude the latter.

In a sense, they were right, new systems have been developed, but they weren't bitcoin evolutions, but alt coins, because *changing* a coin is essentially impossible, but making a new one, is.

That said, as of today, there is not yet a solution for "digital cash" apart things like the LN, which re-introduce normal banking.

[piebeyb]

so this is only on the issue one confirmation of payment bitcoin if you want to buy a cup of coffee, and what it will make you look like a big problem, then how do you think when you find coffee shops accept payment bitcoin with zero confirmation, because the owner of the coffee shop do not want to make buyers wait to get the first payment confirmation and coffee warm you be cool

I know zero confirmation is something heavy like we buy a cup of coffee with paper money which was torn, but what the transaction will not be confirmed although it should take more than 10 minutes, if the problem only because the price of bitcoin rise and fall quickly, I think you and I also know that the risk of merchants sometimes it is not always advantageous