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Author Topic: ApopheniaBTC - Bet and solve the challenges to win BTC.  (Read 58184 times)
faiza1990
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August 17, 2013, 12:13:01 AM
 #241

Post more pictures please  Huh Huh Grin Grin

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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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Tritonio (OP)
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August 17, 2013, 11:02:46 AM
 #242

Post more pictures please  Huh Huh Grin Grin

Will do when I get back home. :-)

@Isamaru It's not easy to find objects that will not confuse anyone. I wouldn't expect the router to confuse anyone since there is only one correct name to distinguish that object from other objects: router. For example when I had posted a CD ROM in the past, there was no correct answer "audio CD" although it could have been an audio CD. Someone could claim that it's confusing because he though he had to guess what kind of CD it is. In the end, the chances of anyone getting confused are pretty much proportional to his "skill" which is what this game is about. Sure there is a factor of luck but that's the same for everyone and it only spices things up a bit, either for good or bad. ;-)
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August 26, 2013, 04:25:25 PM
 #243

There are two open pictures right now:




First is hintless, second one is some game.
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August 27, 2013, 04:47:48 AM
 #244

Just submitted a bet "Blue screen of death" I know that far too well.
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August 27, 2013, 07:59:30 PM
 #245

This site has a really good concept.
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August 27, 2013, 09:40:46 PM
 #246

I have a idea which may generate a litte more income for the site.


People could pay for hints. Each picture has 3 hints lets say. Depending on how easy/hard the picture is and the pot would define the price of each hint. This could generate a few extra coin for the website and also help people who can't see early on and others can.
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August 28, 2013, 06:38:08 AM
 #247

I have a idea which may generate a litte more income for the site.


People could pay for hints. Each picture has 3 hints lets say. Depending on how easy/hard the picture is and the pot would define the price of each hint. This could generate a few extra coin for the website and also help people who can't see early on and others can.

I too have suggested paid hints (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183240.msg2350503#msg2350503). I believe this could help the site grow.

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August 28, 2013, 09:38:53 AM
 #248

Paid hints, if implemented correctly, may indeed raise profits.

My main concerns are these: (I could be wrong in some or all of these, they are not proper arguments, just concerns)

1. In most pictures a hint will rule out lots of possible answers which might decrease the pot. Maybe I could make a portion of the money go towards the pot but again, wouldn't a hint decrease the total possible number of guesses? Why guess two or three times, when you can buy a hint and guess once with a higher probability to win?

2. It will cause players to focus more on a single picture rather than spreading their guesses to all of the available ones. This could be good or bad, I don't know. It would surely be against players that just want to pay just for one guess per 2 days. Those players would either face the disadvantage of having fewer info than other players that want to bet multiple times on a pic, or pay for the hint as if it was obligatory.

3. In a picture that is close lets say to 50%, if nobody has solved it then you can be pretty sure that without the hint you have very few chances of solving it (since someone else has probably bought the tip and still wasn't able to solve it). This makes the tip look somewhat obligatory. It reminds me of pay-to-win games. If it really ends up being obligatory, then I could as well ask for an entrance fee to the site. Also see point 3: the hint would be pretty much obligatory for occasional players.

4. Slightly increased complexity for the player.

5. No matter what the configuration of the hinting system, after some time (maybe a long time) it will be "easy" to calculate whether hints pay back for their money or not. And after that point you will either always buy one or never buy it. Until that time though I think hints will make the game more "random" for most players since you won't be able to know how helpful the tip will be or whether you should buy it or not. More randomness will cause more frustration as even the current randomness of the game has caused frustration to some people. I can already imagine people complaining about how helpful for others was the tip that they didn't buy and which caused them to loose 3 bets, or how useless was the tip that they bought.


Here is an alternative that almost "fixes" point 2 and 3 and maybe 4: Pay to see the picture advanced by X hours or by X% of the remaining hours. You only get to see ONE scnapshot so the advantage you buy is temporary, as time passes, other players reach the point that you saw. That way occasional players don't necessarily compete with players that have paid for a permanent hint that is valid during the whole duration of the picture. This way the game won't be that much pay-to-win as players will need to constantly buy new hints in order to have a permanent advantage over other players which won't be worth the money.

One concern about this system: Would it NEED to be 0-confirmations? Would it be too much to ask someone to wait 10 minutes (or in some cases much more), in order to see the picture advanced by 1 hour for example? Of course the picture will be advanced by 1 hour after the time the hint payment was CONFIRMED, not the time it was PAID.

But still I feel that paid hints would just make the game more random.

I would like to hear more thoughts on this...
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August 28, 2013, 02:09:11 PM
 #249

1. In most pictures a hint will rule out lots of possible answers which might decrease the pot. Maybe I could make a portion of the money go towards the pot but again, wouldn't a hint decrease the
total possible number of guesses? Why guess two or three times, when you can buy a hint and guess once with a higher probability to win?

But more people would buy hints as long as they're reasonably priced, maybe 10% of the guess price. If half of that goes to the pot and more people participate then the pot might grow quicker.


2. It will cause players to focus more on a single picture rather than spreading their guesses to all of the available ones. This could be good or bad, I don't know. It would surely be against players that
just want to pay just for one guess per 2 days. Those players would either face the disadvantage of having fewer info than other players that want to bet multiple times on a pic, or pay for the hint as
if it was obligatory.

Maybe not. I think it depends on hint price/reward ratio. Maybe people wouldn't think too much about it if hints are cheap enough.


3. In a picture that is close lets say to 50%, if nobody has solved it then you can be pretty sure that without the hint you have very few chances of solving it (since someone else has probably bought
the tip and still wasn't able to solve it). This makes the tip look somewhat obligatory. It reminds me of pay-to-win games. If it really ends up being obligatory, then I could as well ask for an
entrance fee to the site. Also see point 3: the hint would be pretty much obligatory for occasional players.

That might be true, but then again can you really be sure that someone has bought the hint? Moreover, the same hint could make much sense to another person.


4. Slightly increased complexity for the player.

5. No matter what the configuration of the hinting system, after some time (maybe a long time) it will be "easy" to calculate whether hints pay back for their money or not. And after that point you will
either always buy one or never buy it. Until that time though I think hints will make the game more "random" for most players since you won't be able to know how helpful the tip will be or whether you
should buy it or not. More randomness will cause more frustration as even the current randomness of the game has caused frustration to some people. I can already imagine people complaining about
how helpful for others was the tip that they didn't buy and which caused them to loose 3 bets, or how useless was the tip that they bought.

People complain either way, the question is if you give them the incentives to keep playing. I think that if you post more pics, people will play more, but you can only do this if you turn a profit.


Here is an alternative that almost "fixes" point 2 and 3 and maybe 4: Pay to see the picture advanced by X hours or by X% of the remaining hours. You only get to see ONE scnapshot so the advantage
you buy is temporary, as time passes, other players reach the point that you saw. That way occasional players don't necessarily compete with players that have paid for a permanent hint that is valid
during the whole duration of the picture. This way the game won't be that much pay-to-win as players will need to constantly buy new hints in order to have a permanent advantage over other players
which won't be worth the money.

I like this one. In the end you'll only find out what works if you try different approaches. It's called split testing, try a few things and keep the one(s) that work best.



One concern about this system: Would it NEED to be 0-confirmations? Would it be too much to ask someone to wait 10 minutes (or in some cases much more), in order to see the picture advanced by
1 hour for example? Of course the picture will be advanced by 1 hour after the time the hint payment was CONFIRMED, not the time it was PAID.

I guess it should be instantaneous. In the 10 minutes needed for a confirmation, people might change their mind. At the very least it will spoil the fun. Idk, maybe use an account system or unique urls like just-dice?

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August 28, 2013, 02:56:40 PM
 #250

1. In most pictures a hint will rule out lots of possible answers which might decrease the pot. Maybe I could make a portion of the money go towards the pot but again, wouldn't a hint decrease the
total possible number of guesses? Why guess two or three times, when you can buy a hint and guess once with a higher probability to win?

But more people would buy hints as long as they're reasonably priced, maybe 10% of the guess price. If half of that goes to the pot and more people participate then the pot might grow quicker.
I was thinking that practically any kind of hint will give you more chances to win than having to ability to double bet each time your bet. Imagine this case:
The free hint is: "it's a game"
The paid hint is: "it's team based"
The answer is: "team fortress 2"

What would you prefer? Being able to bet a second time for every bet you pay for? Or having access to the paid tip? I would surely prefer the hint over the free bets. That means that in this scenario the hint should cost MORE than a bet. As in 110%, not 10%.


Cryptic hints would be even more helpful in my opinion. Consider the same scenario but the paid hint is: "Need a ... here."

With that hint all you have to do is start guessing random games and seeing if this hint makes sense. When you reach TF2, you will notice that the hint makes perfect sense. Even if this guesswork doesn't work, chances are that the hint will be at least an excellent confirmation mechanism before you place for a bet. Does the hint make sense? If not, don't bet. That will save you a lot of money, even more than a hint like "it's team based". So it has to cost even more. Unless I make it really, really cryptic...

In any reasonable case, a textual hint should cost more than a bet.

Quote

2. It will cause players to focus more on a single picture rather than spreading their guesses to all of the available ones. This could be good or bad, I don't know. It would surely be against players that
just want to pay just for one guess per 2 days. Those players would either face the disadvantage of having fewer info than other players that want to bet multiple times on a pic, or pay for the hint as
if it was obligatory.

Maybe not. I think it depends on hint price/reward ratio. Maybe people wouldn't think too much about it if hints are cheap enough.

If they are too cheap, everyone will buy them, so why implement them. They need to be priced properly else they will be something like an entrance fee to the site. I'm talking about textual hints here. :-/
Quote

3. In a picture that is close lets say to 50%, if nobody has solved it then you can be pretty sure that without the hint you have very few chances of solving it (since someone else has probably bought
the tip and still wasn't able to solve it). This makes the tip look somewhat obligatory. It reminds me of pay-to-win games. If it really ends up being obligatory, then I could as well ask for an
entrance fee to the site. Also see point 3: the hint would be pretty much obligatory for occasional players.

That might be true, but then again can you really be sure that someone has bought the hint? Moreover, the same hint could make much sense to another person.

Well right now maybe you can't. But if more people start betting and the hints aren't priced highly, you should expect that someone has bought it when the picture has progressed enough.
Quote

5. No matter what the configuration of the hinting system, after some time (maybe a long time) it will be "easy" to calculate whether hints pay back for their money or not. And after that point you will
either always buy one or never buy it. Until that time though I think hints will make the game more "random" for most players since you won't be able to know how helpful the tip will be or whether you
should buy it or not. More randomness will cause more frustration as even the current randomness of the game has caused frustration to some people. I can already imagine people complaining about
how helpful for others was the tip that they didn't buy and which caused them to loose 3 bets, or how useless was the tip that they bought.

People complain either way, the question is if you give them the incentives to keep playing. I think that if you post more pics, people will play more, but you can only do this if you turn a profit.

Sure, you can't make everyone happy. My point here is that hints don't remove "fairness" complains from the site since they don't make the game more "fair" in any sense. On the other hand I can imagine people complaining about them. So, ceteris paribus, I THINK hints would increase complaints and thus dissatisfaction. I can't be sure of course, for example now I've seen two players askign for hints so some people would be more satisfied.
Quote

Here is an alternative that almost "fixes" point 2 and 3 and maybe 4: Pay to see the picture advanced by X hours or by X% of the remaining hours. You only get to see ONE scnapshot so the advantage
you buy is temporary, as time passes, other players reach the point that you saw. That way occasional players don't necessarily compete with players that have paid for a permanent hint that is valid
during the whole duration of the picture. This way the game won't be that much pay-to-win as players will need to constantly buy new hints in order to have a permanent advantage over other players
which won't be worth the money.

I like this one. In the end you'll only find out what works if you try different approaches. It's called split testing, try a few things and keep the one(s) that work best.

I think I'm going to try this. I will start adding paid hints to some pictures while leaving other only with the free hint. I'll need some time to make this though.
Quote


One concern about this system: Would it NEED to be 0-confirmations? Would it be too much to ask someone to wait 10 minutes (or in some cases much more), in order to see the picture advanced by
1 hour for example? Of course the picture will be advanced by 1 hour after the time the hint payment was CONFIRMED, not the time it was PAID.

I guess it should be instantaneous. In the 10 minutes needed for a confirmation, people might change their mind. At the very least it will spoil the fun. Idk, maybe use an account system or unique urls like just-dice?

I don't want to touch accounts. Unique URLs were my idea also. Click on "Buy extra hint" to be taken to a unique page, pay to the address there and AJAX load the impoved picture when payment is received.

Another hint idea: View the picture with a different kind of distortion. That has a little problem though, if you overlay the two pictures with the different distortions, you will probably end up with a cleaner version of the picture. That means that people who know how to use picture editing software will have an extra advantage so I guess this is not such a good idea.
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August 28, 2013, 07:19:58 PM
 #251

I was thinking that practically any kind of hint will give you more chances to win than having to ability to double bet each time your bet. Imagine this case:
The free hint is: "it's a game"
The paid hint is: "it's team based"
The answer is: "team fortress 2"

What would you prefer? Being able to bet a second time for every bet you pay for? Or having access to the paid tip? I would surely prefer the hint over the free bets. That means that in this scenario the hint should cost MORE than a bet. As in 110%, not 10%.

When you put it like this, I agree that hints should cost more than a bet. I was thinking more about vague hints when I said they should be cheap. So the example you gave would look something like this:

The free hint is: "it's a game"
The 1st paid hint is: "it's a first-person shooter"
The 2nd paid hint is: "it's a multiplayer game"
The 3rd paid hint is: "it was first released in 2007"
and so on...

Hints should also get more expensive as time passes, so it would be encouraged to buy them early on. First hints could also be cheaper than the next ones.


I think I'm going to try this. I will start adding paid hints to some pictures while leaving other only with the free hint. I'll need some time to make this though.

Nice! I'd really like to see your site succeed, there are just too many dice and casino sites out there (just don't look at my sig, lol).

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August 28, 2013, 07:49:22 PM
 #252

Even if you don't include a free hint anymore and only paid hints. This would mean people would either wait until they know what the picture is, which makes it more competition between each player has the later it gets, the more people actually bid. Or, they can buy the hint early on and get a head start.


Also, this game one. Is very hard at the moment.
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August 28, 2013, 09:51:33 PM
 #253

I was thinking that practically any kind of hint will give you more chances to win than having to ability to double bet each time your bet. Imagine this case:
The free hint is: "it's a game"
The paid hint is: "it's team based"
The answer is: "team fortress 2"

What would you prefer? Being able to bet a second time for every bet you pay for? Or having access to the paid tip? I would surely prefer the hint over the free bets. That means that in this scenario the hint should cost MORE than a bet. As in 110%, not 10%.

When you put it like this, I agree that hints should cost more than a bet. I was thinking more about vague hints when I said they should be cheap. So the example you gave would look something like this:

The free hint is: "it's a game"
The 1st paid hint is: "it's a first-person shooter"
The 2nd paid hint is: "it's a multiplayer game"
The 3rd paid hint is: "it was first released in 2007"
and so on...

Hints should also get more expensive as time passes, so it would be encouraged to buy them early on. First hints could also be cheaper than the next ones.

Each of those tips definitely cuts your guesses into more than half. So if they do cost less than a bet, you'd be a fool not to buy them unless you are really sure you know the answer. In the end it will make people waste money on fees since everyone will have a huge incentive to buy the hints. They do REALLY need to be more expensive than the bet as I see it. Anyway I'll think about it. Or I'll just go for the picture hint which doesn't need to be THAT expensive depending on how much time it will be adding to the picture. We'll see. ;-)
Quote

I think I'm going to try this. I will start adding paid hints to some pictures while leaving other only with the free hint. I'll need some time to make this though.

Nice! I'd really like to see your site succeed, there are just too many dice and casino sites out there (just don't look at my sig, lol).


Since you mentioned forum signatures, and for everyone's information, I've set up a referral system. To access your custom URL just place ANY bet (you don't have to pay, just place it and use a valid bitcoin address for it, one that you own) and you'll get a referral URL for that address.

Even if you don't include a free hint anymore and only paid hints. This would mean people would either wait until they know what the picture is, which makes it more competition between each player has the later it gets, the more people actually bid. Or, they can buy the hint early on and get a head start.


Also, this game one. Is very hard at the moment.

I feel that an advanced picture hint would make more sense be more fair. Mostly because the advantage you get is temporary. So when you think that this game is Team Fortress but you don't want to loose the bet, you may be willing to loose some money to reduce the chances of making a mistake. You'll pay, that will add some clarity to the picture and then you go on and bet or not bet. If you don't bet (since the hint showed you you were wrong), then your advantage slowly diminishes as the picture moves towards what you saw earlier in the hint. And part of those hints also gets added to the pot.

I start to like this idea.
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August 29, 2013, 01:57:18 AM
 #254

What does Need the Title mean?

Was stuck on that one too, it would be great if you could add more puzzles Smiley
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August 29, 2013, 03:07:28 AM
 #255

Really like this site,  so far I've only solved one but always checking for new photos

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August 29, 2013, 09:41:04 AM
 #256

The last picture is not getting any easier soon. I hope some more pictures will come available soon.
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August 29, 2013, 10:47:32 AM
 #257

Here's one more pic. It's a textual one:
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August 29, 2013, 10:44:05 PM
 #258

how long do we have to wait until the bet confirms?

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August 29, 2013, 11:22:20 PM
 #259

Here's one more pic. It's a textual one:


Hi there, I enjoy things related to images in general, so I enjoy checking these pictures too.

My issue with your system is that an image can possibly have multiple distinct answers, and we would never know given the current method. Couldn't you: 1) encrypt the original image with a certain secret, 2) publish the hash of that secret together with the url of the encrypted image (so people can download the encrypted image for checking later), and then after someone gets the answer you 3) release the secret ?

For example, to me the latest image looks like something with two digits between 30 and 40 (free tips, although that might be completely incorrect), but maybe it is just the apophenia effect kicking in Smiley It also could be something totally different.

Is your method for modifying images available somewhere ? I realize I might be asking too much here..
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August 29, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
 #260

how long do we have to wait until the bet confirms?

Bets are checked after one network confirmation + ~1 minute. So on average your bet will be checked in 11 minutes. It could go much higher than that though if the network doesn't produce blocks or if your bet doesn't get into any block.

In any case bets are prioritized by first by the block they appeared and secondly by the time they were placed. If you don't include any fee and you don't get included in the next lets say two block and someone else bets the same thing and includes a fee so he does get included in the next block, he will win. If you both get included in the same block, the first bet wins.

But I don't see any recent bet. The last one is "battleship" which has been checked and is included in the "wrong answers" of the game picture. Is that the bet you're talking about?
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