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Author Topic: Won't all coins eventually become too complex?  (Read 1270 times)
Saturn7
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April 22, 2013, 10:08:21 PM
 #1

Was doing some spring cleaning, tried to send the balance of 0.267 btc from a random wallet to my main wallet.


bitcoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 0.26720506
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least 0.035 because of its amount, complexity, or use of recently received funds!"}



That's a 13% tx fee.
At $127/btc that would be $4.95 of the $33 that 0.267btc is currently worth.

I know its a messed up wallet (was playing with satoshi dice) but how do we explain this to newbies?
I wouldn't consider $33 to be a micro transaction.
And this balance has been there for many months so no recent tx were made.

In the long run won't all coins have so many inputs that the tx fee will go through the roof?
Is there a way to "defrag" your coins?

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meanig
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April 22, 2013, 11:09:30 PM
 #2

How many inputs did it have?
spunit262
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April 23, 2013, 02:58:49 AM
 #3

The problem isn't that you're trying to send a micro transaction, the problem is that you're trying to spend a bunch of micro transaction (about 500 based on the fee). This is the equivalent of trying to pay your bill with a jar of pennies. This is one of the 2 main reasons people hate SD. The good news it that once you send it to your main wallet all the pennies will merge into one 0.23220506 bill that's easy to spend.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change
ShadowOfHarbringer
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April 23, 2013, 08:13:34 AM
 #4

You can try sending it with my fork (look at my signature) to pay a lower fee, but you risk that the transaction will take weeks to confirm or it will not confirm at all (depends on if the miners will like it or not).

I haven't checked how such scenario works yet, unfortunately - so as I said: it's risky.

bezzeb
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April 23, 2013, 08:30:18 AM
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You can try sending it with my fork (look at my signature) to pay a lower fee, but you risk that the transaction will take weeks to confirm or it will not confirm at all (depends on if the miners will like it or not).

I haven't checked how such scenario works yet, unfortunately - so as I said: it's risky.

I use Armory and in the options one can set the fee.  I had a few dust addresses which the client was annoying me with a massive fee warning over and over again on.  I went into the setup options and dialed the fee down to a level I felt was fair given the current exchange rate.  (about 10 cents at the time on a few <1 btc transactions.

Transactions all went through normally in the first confirmation round -could have probably made the fee less..... 

The QT client i guess also has a fee setting but i haven't used it in ages so I can't say how it handles dust.  Note:  Armory needs QT to maintain the local blockchain, but runs a separate (safer imho) wallet.  I am not affiliated with Armory - just a happy user. 
Mike Hearn
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April 23, 2013, 09:15:25 AM
 #6

Over time wallets should try to defragment themselves (or re-fragment for privacy). For now the best you can do is try to slowly defrag manually by sending small amounts back to yourself, to keep the transactions small enough to avoid the fee rules. Eventually you'll have a single output with your entire balance and can spend it without fees, but it'll take a while.
ShadowOfHarbringer
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April 23, 2013, 11:45:10 AM
 #7

You can try sending it with my fork (look at my signature) to pay a lower fee, but you risk that the transaction will take weeks to confirm or it will not confirm at all (depends on if the miners will like it or not).

I haven't checked how such scenario works yet, unfortunately - so as I said: it's risky.

I use Armory and in the options one can set the fee.  I had a few dust addresses which the client was annoying me with a massive fee warning over and over again on.  I went into the setup options and dialed the fee down to a level I felt was fair given the current exchange rate.  (about 10 cents at the time on a few <1 btc transactions.

Transactions all went through normally in the first confirmation round -could have probably made the fee less..... 

Yeah, yhou can use Armory for that too.
It would probably also work on my fork though.

CIYAM
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April 23, 2013, 11:48:12 AM
 #8

You could always throw a complaint at SD for sending you dust "message" outputs (there are many here who would be glad if they changed their model).

Smiley

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GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
jubalix
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April 23, 2013, 01:29:55 PM
 #9

Was doing some spring cleaning, tried to send the balance of 0.267 btc from a random wallet to my main wallet.


bitcoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 0.26720506
error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least 0.035 because of its amount, complexity, or use of recently received funds!"}



That's a 13% tx fee.
At $127/btc that would be $4.95 of the $33 that 0.267btc is currently worth.

I know its a messed up wallet (was playing with satoshi dice) but how do we explain this to newbies?
I wouldn't consider $33 to be a micro transaction.
And this balance has been there for many months so no recent tx were made.

In the long run won't all coins have so many inputs that the tx fee will go through the roof?
Is there a way to "defrag" your coins?


Just publicise this as an extra cost to SD winnings, the ratios are wafer thin and gamblers hate getting by a stealth cost....the market forces will come to bear and force SD to change its way, or face new competition
Q.E.D

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April 23, 2013, 01:55:08 PM
 #10

I used Dumpprivkey and imported to gox, they have old coins and connections with pools to take care of dust. Import took 2 days but there was no fee.
Saturn7
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April 23, 2013, 11:11:51 PM
 #11

wow just checked my wallet.dat and its 4.1MB, never had more than 5 btc in it.
Never realized how SD messes up your wallet.


Using Armory to manually import private keys.

First there was Fire, then Electricity, and now Bitcoins Wink
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