I'm a bear and proud

[schmokel]

Don't agree with op in lot of stuff and have a lot of belief in bitcoin or some other more advanced cryptocurrency but can't stand arrogant bull pricks who jump on necks of anyone who doesn't have their opinion. Grade A twats.

QUOTED FOR SOME MOTHER FUCKIN TRUTH!


No I don't think they are twats just run of the mill sheep who cause bubbles and love to buy high in greed and then panic and burn money.  Their logical fallacy is that they can emotionally manipulate this market with forum posts.  The real money in Bitcoin ain't got time for all that forum reading.  They are busy making real money.

PT Barnum - sucker born every minute.

It's like taking candy from babies!

A fool and his bitcoins are soon parted.

In the past 10 bubbles I've seen the same endless arrogant pricks preaching about how tech stocks would be fine.  Housing. Default swaps. Enron.  They just never stop wanting to believe.  Blind faith.

Speak.  I've only been following BTC for a few months, but this much is obvious.  When you make bear predictions, heaps of evidence are required, and generally do nothing to convince the masses.  When you make bull predictions, well, it's like a coke fix for a cokehead.  At this point, we're talking about a currency backed by no gov't or tangible asset whose price is essentially dictated by a single exchange and the occasional media blip.  Cool heads will prevail.

[notme]

1. cross border transactions- faster/cheaper than cash or digital fiat
2. internet transactions- faster/cheaper than digital fiat
3. person to person transfers- faster/cheaper than digital fiat
4. in person transactions- equivalent to cash, cheaper than digital fiat

Care to give me one example of bitcoin not being portable?  In physical locations where it is accepted, bitcoin is just as easy to use as cash.

Agree with #1.

Agree with #3 & #4 if sender already holds Bitcoins but not to purchase BTC simply to make transfers within the US. I hate Paypal, but one can send money transfers (not purchase related) free of fees for both sender & receiver. If one already holds BTC as an investment, it makes sense to make intra-border (US) purchases and transfers.

Disagree with #2. Because of Bitcoin volatility, 99.9% of merchants can only accept it through BitPay. This will likely never change due to foreign exchange risk. BitPay charges 1%. The spread to purchase BTC is usually 0.5% to 1% and much higher (5%) during period of high volatility. The merchant price through BitPay must account for spread. So all things being equal and assuming instantaneous transactions, the USD-BTC-USD transaction would cost 1.5% to 2% at the minimum. And this doesn't include the substantial foreign exchange risk assumed by the purchaser, which could certainly dwarf a CC fee in a matter of seconds.

One case for USD-BTC-USD is for very niche, privacy related reasons that likely involve international sites (gambling, etc).

You're right, USD-BTC-USD is not ideal.  But as a merchant, you only have to worry about BTC-USD, and bitpay can handle that for you at 1%.  Much cheaper than credit cards with no fraud risk.

[anu]

backed by no gov't or tangible asset

Why is govt backing a feature and what is special about "tangible" assets? 0 and 1 are not valuable?

I have my work here: It is an OpenOffice document containing a perfect cure for Aids. Since it is made of 0 and 1 and has no government backing, it has no value. You convinced me:

$ rm -f aidscure.odt

[Miz4r]

Don't agree with op in lot of stuff and have a lot of belief in bitcoin or some other more advanced cryptocurrency and on top of that don't give a flying one about threads like this (why the heck I would care what some random nobody either from bull or bear side thinks, and why he thinks his opinion is remotely important enough to open a thread about it instead of posting it in some of other 3 billion threads) but can't stand arrogant bull pricks who jump on necks of anyone who doesn't have their opinion. Grade A twats.

I don't mind anyone having a different opinion from mine and I respect people if they believe that bitcoin is not a viable currency and present a reasonable case for it (I just disagree but that's fine). OP however is an idiot and an arrogant prick himself, so the responses he got are well deserved.

[nkspace]

and what have i said for you to come to that conclusion

[Qoheleth]

Being proud of bearishness is just as silly as being proud of bullishness. The bull-bear axis defines what you think will happen to the price in the future - no more. Making it a part of your identity is setting yourself up for a fall.

As for your reasoning... it essentially boils down to "10 minutes per block is too slow" and "too many whales and weak hands doing silly things with the price", yes?

The first is a valid point, and I'm still sort of uncertain why 10 minute blocks were chosen when the exponential algorithm for confirms per chance of reversal applies just as easily to, say, 1 minute blocks. Maybe it has something to do with stales, I dunno. In any case, I'd support finer block granularity if you could get everyone onboard.

The second... well. If big hands want to fritter away their money by bouncing the price around, I'm willing to take my share of it from them every time. The way I figure it, sooner or later there will be enough people like me that the price won't bounce around so much anymore.

I think the blockchain technology is the future of asset/currency transfer. I'm not yet convinced that the Satoshi blockchain is the one that'll win, but it seems like the best bet until a serious competitor comes along.

[nkspace]

the point of the big hands, which i suppose i didn't make very clear is that this will destroy bitcoin, everyone loves a rally, i love a rally, however due to the cyclical pumping and dumping , it will kill its credibility, therefore as long as there are big hands causing these erratic price jumps, the hsort term memory of bitcoins price history will begin to transgress into a longterm occurence making it very diffiult for bitcoin to succeed and actually prosper, and being a ffree market with a low capital, there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it, which is why i'm sceptical confidence in the currency will allow the bitcoin to ever reach 1000 $

[nkspace]

i could be wrong 

[notme]

the point of the big hands, which i suppose i didn't make very clear is that this will destroy bitcoin, everyone loves a rally, i love a rally, however due to the cyclical pumping and dumping it will not only affect bitcoin as a reliable  currency, it will kill its credibility, therefore as long as there are big hands causing these erratic price jumps, the hsort term memory of bitcoins price history will begin to transgress into a longterm occurence making it very diffiult for bitcoin to succeed and actually prosper, and being a ffree market with a low capital, there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it, which is why i'm sceptical confidence in the currency will allow the bitcoin to ever reach 1000 $

Bitcoin market cap is too low -> Bitcoin market cap will never grow?

I don't follow.

[nkspace]

listen silver bullion is still volatile with a 30 billion market cap, but silver is not used as a currency, this is meant to be a currency, currencies can't be volatile

[Buffer Overflow]

Furthermore the bitcoin will never reach $1000, bulls stop pipe dreaming, why would individuals risk $1000 of their hard earned fiat cash, for something that isn't backed by gold/ silver or a commodity, one way to get seriously burned, but the rationale of a group

You do realise you don't have to buy a WHOLE Bitcoin you know.

[anu]

listen silver bullion is still volatile with a 30 billion market cap, but silver is not used as a currency, this is meant to be a currency, currencies can't be volatile

Don't use $ or Euro then. Their volatility compared to gold, oil or bananas is not acceptable.

[nkspace]

so in order to reach semi volatile like silver, you would need to have a bitcoin to be worth 3,000 dollars each, and public confidence in a volatile unbacked currency won't be enough for that to happen, unless the market stops being manipulated, however that won;t happen

[nkspace]

they might fluctuate a couple percent, not 20 percent daily!

[nkspace]

sometimes 20 - 200% daily, dpends on the mood of the speculators

[nkspace]

yes i've covered already that you don';t need to buy a whole one, read my other post, bitcoin functions as well at 100 dollar to the power of seven as one thousand to the power of seven

[anu]

public confidence in a volatile unbacked currency

Looks like public confidence increased considerable during the last 4 years. Don't worry.

Bitcoin is backed by cryptography. What is $ backed with? It is backed by the threat of violence should you refuse to accept it. If the Fed tomorrow decides to accelerate printing, that is what they will do. $ can and will be created in arbitrary amounts and we will see the day when a dollar bill is not big enough to contain all the zeros. Luckily we will be cashless at the time with smart money that decides whether or not you can spend it.

[Buffer Overflow]

@nkspace

Oh dear, someone brought high and sold low. School boy error.

[nkspace]

i can give you my word that is not the case, infact quite the opposite,
making this a completely neutral debate/discusiion

[Manticore]

You're right, USD-BTC-USD is not ideal.  But as a merchant, you only have to worry about BTC-USD, and bitpay can handle that for you at 1%.  Much cheaper than credit cards with no fraud risk.

True, I cannot disagree. It's much easier finding merchants to accept Bitcoin (through BitPay, which means they accept USD and not Bitcoin) than it is to get the general population to transact with Bitcoin. There is a large foreign exchange risk in holding BTC simply for the sake of transactions. Right now, only investors hold bitcoins and they sometimes use them for transactions.

There is a massive segment of the population that will never invest in BTC. That segment does not have an incentive to buy BTC simply to make intra-border transactions, so for most people it would be a USD-BTC-USD transaction. It's a lot to ask to someone to become an investor in Bitcoin and subject them to enormous foreign exchange risk simply because they want to make transactions in a way that might save them 1% if they are lucky.....

The spread is still relevant because at some point every investor had to purchase BTC, whether at $2 or $266. And imagine if the USD was so volatile relative to consumer prices that one had to essentially become a forex trader to make everyday purchases because that was the only way to maximize purchasing power.