Blockchain powered internet?

[Yakamoto]

I'm not sure if this exists yet, but if it does, it would totally decentralize the internet. Being blockchain powered, its content would become immutable, making it difficult for any government or nefarious organization, to take control over it and shutdown the websites living under such system.

I've heard about Maidsafe, but recently found out that it was not blockchain powered. Still, it has interesting technology that might become useful once released.

What do you think?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw someone who was touting Namecoin as making some sort of decentralized internet a possibility, or at least something along those lines. I can't remember exactly how it was supposed to work, but it sounded plausible from the basic information that I got from the glance I got at his post.

Now I don't remember how it works exactly, but I would imagine it would revolve around very quick block times, and information could be transferred as notations in each transaction, or something along those lines. I don't know if that's plausible.

[iamnotback]

I'm not sure if this exists yet, but if it does, it would totally decentralize the internet.

...

What do you think?

That is my altcoin project, BitNet.

[deisik]

Internet is already decentralized

And it is conceptually decentralized. While you would have to use the DNS system to access sites using their mnemonic names (e.g. bitcointalk.org), which can be considered as some form of centralization, you can still access the same site in a completely decentralized way using its IP address. You just need to know this address, which loosely matches a wallet address in Bitcoin, as well as the IP address of your gateway. The latter can be construed as a mining node of sorts confirming your request and sending it to its own gateway or directly to the site if it is a gateway to it. Note that you don't have to pay any fees for sending and receiving network requests, and the same should be done in Bitcoin in regard to transactions

It could be seen that way, although it is somewhat centralized in the sense that governments could shut down a specific site, as well as ISPs being able to censor access to certain sites. However, with a fully decentralized internet powered by the blockchain, it would make it harder for government agencies to take down any site, as the same would be replicated across all the nodes on the network. I know that it may not be the most viable solution for large sites, as the blockchain data would become even bigger than Bitcoin's, but as storage capacity increases over time, it may become a reality at some point in the future

This has nothing to do with centralization

If we accept this point, we could then just as easily claim that Bitcoin itself is "somewhat centralized" because governments can shut down a Bitcoin node or a mining farm. The whole point of decentralization revolves around resistance to such actions, i.e. shutting down one site or node doesn't shut down the whole system. Apart from that, it is pointless to replicate a site (or whole Internet) over blockchain (somehow else) since if the resource gets closed or access to it is blocked, its copy could be launched elsewhere in less than no time

[iamnotback]

This has nothing to do with centralization

The databases on the Internet are centralized, e.g. Facebook's DB, Reddit's DB, Bitcointalk's DB, Stackexchange's DB.

All of them must die. Will be replaced with open blockchain.

[d5000]

I think the OP meant "Web" instead of "Internet" (or at least, "internet services") when talking about decentralization.

A blockchain that saved the content of "web sites" and other Internet-accesible informational resources would not add more "decentralization" but "redundancy", so a single (or a couple of) node taken down would not affect the information.

Now, a blockchain like Bitcoin's where 5000+ nodes save exactly the same information, would be probably much more than we need. The reason is that information about monetary transactions is much more "important" (and thus, probably to be "tampered" with in some way) than a Twitter post, for example. In a blockchain-saved Web alternative every Twitter post would benefit from the same level of protection and redundancy than a transaction worth 100 million USD.

There are already projects in the altcoin space that do this kind of "ultra-redundant" information storage (e.g. Datacoin). But in my opinion, the way Sia goes (with some redundancy but not the ultra-redundancy of blockchain-based storage) is enough for most Web/information pages/services. Also Zeronet is going in this direction, although it doesn't use a blockchain but Torrent technology.

[Abiky]

Why would you want to spam a financial payment system with useless non-financial related information? This will also lead to centralization

when the Blockchain grows too big. A huge Blockchain would force some people too stop running a node, because of increased bandwidth and

storage space. In the end you will have a few data warehouses running nodes and this will kill decentralization. 

I know that using a Blockchain to power the internet nowadays would not be the most viable solution. But, I believe that it may change at some point in the future, as technology evolves in storage capacity and bandwidth. Perhaps, running the internet entirely over the blockchain is not ideal, but it could serve its purposes to secure some areas of the internet like user authentication, and more.

That is my altcoin project, BitNet.

Cool. Never thought that such a project would exist. I would appreciate if you could give me more information about it, or advice by contacting me via PM. Anything that related with the blockchain grabs up my attention.

This has nothing to do with centralization

If we accept this point, we could then just as easily claim that Bitcoin itself is "somewhat centralized" because governments can shut down a Bitcoin node or a mining farm. The whole point of decentralization revolves around resistance to such actions, i.e. shutting down one site or node doesn't shut down the whole system. Apart from that, it is pointless to replicate a site (or whole Internet) over blockchain (somehow else) since if the resource gets closed or access to it is blocked, its copy could be launched elsewhere in less than no time

Yes, but that is not what I meant. I know that governments could shut down nodes, even those of Bitcoin which are vulnerable. But still, even if they manage to shut down several nodes, there will always be other nodes residing on several countries which make it difficult to take down the whole network.

The point that I'm bringing here is redundancy where content remains distributed across a network of computers, and will remain in there forever if there is a single node on the network. But again, I know that it may not be the most viable solution nowadays, making it possible at some point in the future.

Maybe someday, we will get to see a truly libertarian internet without the need of any centralized service provider, or single point of failure. If successful, there could be a future where there would be no central Internet Service Provider (probably via the use of mesh networks), central servers or even domain name service provider (like what we have with NMC) Just sharing my thoughts. 

[Patatas]

I'm not sure if this exists yet, but if it does, it would totally decentralize the internet. Being blockchain powered, its content would become immutable, making it difficult for any government or nefarious organization, to take control over it and shutdown the websites living under such system.

Decentralize the internet sounds vague.Any better way of putting it ? What does a decentralized internet do anyway ? Allow child porn distribution freely ? Open up websites about hiring hitmen openly ? I don't really understand the context here.

I've heard about Maidsafe, but recently found out that it was not blockchain powered. Still, it has interesting technology that might become useful once released.

Blockchain kinda makes sense here but where do you think internet comes from ? Government.It's inevitable.

[Abiky]

I'm not sure if this exists yet, but if it does, it would totally decentralize the internet. Being blockchain powered, its content would become immutable, making it difficult for any government or nefarious organization, to take control over it and shutdown the websites living under such system.

Decentralize the internet sounds vague.Any better way of putting it ? What does a decentralized internet do anyway ? Allow child porn distribution freely ? Open up websites about hiring hitmen openly ? I don't really understand the context here.

Well you do have a point there. While it has its advantages, I think that there would be more disadvantages for it, as it will greatly increase the chances of crimes over the internet, and promote illegal activity. But, I believe that the internet should be “freer” in the sense, that anyone could access its content without any censorship to the same. 

I've heard about Maidsafe, but recently found out that it was not blockchain powered. Still, it has interesting technology that might become useful once released.

Blockchain kinda makes sense here but where do you think internet comes from ? Government.It's inevitable.

True. But I think that this could be done with mesh networking, where there is no ISP, but instead a network of computers connected to one another where content is distributed among the same. Node A will be the host, then the other nodes will connect to it and distribute the data among them, in a point where there is redundancy and no need for an established ISP. You would just connect to the mesh network over Wi-Fi to access the content that it is distributed among its members. There would be no government here, but just individuals running their own network. It's more like a truly libertarian internet if you tell me. Just my thoughts. 

[Harry Callahan]

I'm not sure if this exists yet, but if it does, it would totally decentralize the internet. Being blockchain powered, its content would become immutable, making it difficult for any government or nefarious organization, to take control over it and shutdown the websites living under such system.
I've heard about Maidsafe, but recently found out that it was not blockchain powered. Still, it has interesting technology that might become useful once released.
What do you think?

The internet as we call it is a group of decentralized servers liked together and you really cannot restrict it fully even if the government wants to but everything you do online can be monitored if you are not securing the protocols and only databases of sites are centralized like google and facebook which is taking the anonymity away from its users and if anyone is able to build an open block chain based social networking site i will be happy to see those.

[deisik]

This has nothing to do with centralization

If we accept this point, we could then just as easily claim that Bitcoin itself is "somewhat centralized" because governments can shut down a Bitcoin node or a mining farm. The whole point of decentralization revolves around resistance to such actions, i.e. shutting down one site or node doesn't shut down the whole system. Apart from that, it is pointless to replicate a site (or whole Internet) over blockchain (somehow else) since if the resource gets closed or access to it is blocked, its copy could be launched elsewhere in less than no time

Yes, but that is not what I meant. I know that governments could shut down nodes, even those of Bitcoin which are vulnerable. But still, even if they manage to shut down several nodes, there will always be other nodes residing on several countries which make it difficult to take down the whole network.

The point that I'm bringing here is redundancy where content remains distributed across a network of computers, and will remain in there forever if there is a single node on the network. But again, I know that it may not be the most viable solution nowadays, making it possible at some point in the future

What is the purpose of replicating what is mostly garbage?

The transactions written on the blockchain are as worth as Bitcoin itself since they define the end state of each wallet (i.e. how many coins it contains). So, unless we talk about spammy 1 satoshi transactions (but even these do matter after all, provided they get confirmed), any transaction is an integral part of what makes up Bitcoin. This is not the case with sites existing in Internet. In fact, without some of them Internet would likely be even better than it is today, so I don't see any sense in such blind replication. It will be just a terrible waste of resources

[geopolisch]

Why ? whats the point? What’s the big rave about everything being decentralized? For bitcoin it makes sense because its currency that people may not want to be traced. For a server for a website there is no reason. Why do you need the internet powered by the blockchain? Is there a reason or is it more like it sounds like a good idea so you feel like using it. In my opinion there is no good reason.

[HaXX0R1337]

Why ? whats the point? What’s the big rave about everything being decentralized? For bitcoin it makes sense because its currency that people may not want to be traced. For a server for a website there is no reason. Why do you need the internet powered by the blockchain? Is there a reason or is it more like it sounds like a good idea so you feel like using it. In my opinion there is no good reason.

Being decentralized does not mean that it cannot be traced.The peer to peer technology works on the decentralized platform and it can be traced without much sweat but the biggest advantage is that you cannot really take down the entire network since it is a distributed network and it can be used for websites to increase its security you need to add public key encryption and hope it will be implemented in the future.

[DooMAD]

I'm not sure if this exists yet, but if it does, it would totally decentralize the internet. Being blockchain powered, its content would become immutable, making it difficult for any government or nefarious organization, to take control over it and shutdown the websites living under such system.

I've heard about Maidsafe, but recently found out that it was not blockchain powered. Still, it has interesting technology that might become useful once released.

What do you think?

Qora has been able to host decentralised websites on a blockchain for some time now.

You can view a directory of sites here:
http://node.qora.tech:9090/index/webdirectory.html

[Vikingr]

I do not believe that it will happen in the field of internet because internet is a service provided directly by the governments or organizations and without their control it is not able to run any service of internet.

[Wind_FURY]

not sure you really need Blockchain per se.  Blockchain's purpose is decentralized consensus, but the www purpose is free sharing of information.

It is the fault of the people who created the "blockchain" into a buzzword. People like Don Tapscott, who is a professional book writer and not a coder, who says that the blockchain will rule the entire world and it will our world a better place. He is like a snake oil salesman. The sad thing is a lot of Bitcoin newbies are listening to him.

[deisik]

not sure you really need Blockchain per se.  Blockchain's purpose is decentralized consensus, but the www purpose is free sharing of information.

It is the fault of the people who created the "blockchain" into a buzzword. People like Don Tapscott, who is a professional book writer and not a coder, who says that the blockchain will rule the entire world and it will our world a better place. He is like a snake oil salesman. The sad thing is a lot of Bitcoin newbies are listening to him

In fact, I don't know who is Don Tapscott

So he is unlikely to be a good writer (otherwise I would have heard about him), but if he doesn't tell outright lies, he may still be making Bitcoin a good service by spreading knowledge among laymen and newbies. After all, do you deny that Bitcoin could make the world a better place or claim that Bitcoin is a snake oil? In the end the world may remain the same as before (i.e. as bad a place as it has always been), but Bitcoin is certainly not a snake oil

[taxmanmt5]

I'm not sure if this exists yet, but if it does, it would totally decentralize the internet. Being blockchain powered, its content would become immutable, making it difficult for any government or nefarious organization, to take control over it and shutdown the websites living under such system.

I've heard about Maidsafe, but recently found out that it was not blockchain powered. Still, it has interesting technology that might become useful once released.

What do you think?

You mean having also a decentralized internet access? If so, things will be abuse in the future that is for sure, because of unlimited access of everything. What will be its feature? Things will be hard I guess.

[d5000]

Some time ago, a respected member of this community showed me web2web, which is using the Bitcoin blockchain and torrents for the storage of information. That combination could be interesting, but I must investigate more on it to really evaluate its potential. If I understand it right it includes also a kind of "poor man's Namecoin".

In reality, you could use every blockchain to store "web pages" as most of them have some kind of "arbitrary data storage" way and you could embed HTML or markup in it. The problem is scalability, if you really want 100% redundancy.

[DooMAD]

It's probably best for the direction of this thread if we clarify that the role of an ISP can't really be replaced with a blockchain.  At least, not in any way my brain can conjure.  The clear impression I got from the OP is that the question was regarding "content" on a blockchain, such as websites:

I'm not sure if this exists yet, but if it does, it would totally decentralize the internet. Being blockchain powered, its content would become immutable, making it difficult for any government or nefarious organization, to take control over it and shutdown the websites living under such system.

So not the provision of access to the internet itself.

I do not believe that it will happen in the field of internet because internet is a service provided directly by the governments or organizations and without their control it is not able to run any service of internet.

Websites on a blockchain are already a thing.  The only reason I haven't got one is down to laziness, heh.

[Abiky]

What is the purpose of replicating what is mostly garbage?

The transactions written on the blockchain are as worth as Bitcoin itself since they define the end state of each wallet (i.e. how many coins it contains). So, unless we talk about spammy 1 satoshi transactions (but even these do matter after all, provided they get confirmed), any transaction is an integral part of what makes up Bitcoin. This is not the case with sites existing in Internet. In fact, without some of them Internet would likely be even better than it is today, so I don't see any sense in such blind replication. It will be just a terrible waste of resources

True. I guess that it wouldn't be the same concept as Bitcoin, since the Internet is full of unusable content, making it a disaster if applied on a blockchain. In the end, I think that blockchain could prove its use case not to power the whole internet on it, but instead to be used as authentication method for user accounts, or even established immutable databases for a specific site.

Maybe at some point in the future, a different concept would be designed to decentralize and liberate the Internet further, but now, established solutions like Maidsafe and ZeroNet are very promising. 

Qora has been able to host decentralised websites on a blockchain for some time now.

You can view a directory of sites here:
http://node.qora.tech:9090/index/webdirectory.html

Thanks for sharing. When I first got into Qora, it seemed like NXT in its features, expect for the part of the web host. I've thought that making websites on Qora didn't rely on its blockchain, but instead on a single node/server. It's a good thing to see such concept become a reality on this advanced cryptocurrency.