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Author Topic: F2Pool started signalling Segwit  (Read 5560 times)
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unamis76
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March 31, 2017, 10:57:05 PM
 #21

It is April 1 where I am in Asia.

We'll see how it plays out. Seems they want to play with us like a cat and mouse. But I think the economic reality is what it is.

Yes, I'm aware that it is already April 1st on many timezones, however it didn't occur to me that an issue of this magnitude could give origin to an April's fools joke... Roll Eyes

They want to play us and are playing themselves in the processes. If things go south for us, they go south for them too, and these mining pool operators have much, much more at stake than 90% of us... That's why I find all this really strange.

What you say in the end is a fact... The reality is what it is and an April fool definitely can't change that. But it can help disrupt reality a bit... It's like trying to make a fool out of everyone and throwing sand in our eyes.
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March 31, 2017, 11:05:50 PM
 #22

If I am correct about my design, we (all humans) will get the last laugh, but it will take a while.

In the meantime, we have to deal within the reality that Satoshi gave us. And that is Bitcoin will remain immutable. So Litecoin is where we can have big blocks, SegWit, and LN.

Notice how F2Pool has used April fools as a way to signal SegWit on Litecoin but to make it seem like he wasn't serious because he signaled conflicting things on Bitcoin. He is serious about the signaling on Litecoin. He wants SegWit (look at his efforts on Syscoin to test out activation), but he doesn't want to create conflict with those on Bitcoin who know that we must keep small blocks on Bitcoin else we lose the equilibrium that Satoshi design. So he signaled nonsense on Bitcoin and signaled serious SegWit on Litecoin.

The miners are navigating opportunity costs and power structures that Satoshi's design enables. I agree the process is noisy. Noise is a result of the imperfect matching of fungible money and non-fungible knowledge value. I wrote about this extensively else where. Very abstract concepts.
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March 31, 2017, 11:40:18 PM
 #23

Quite the April Fool's joke, I tell you. This goes to show how worthless of a political game signaling really is. Stick to the real thing! Smiley














 

 

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April 01, 2017, 12:20:22 AM
 #24

Even if it seems it is only a April Fools' joke: Maybe it's a call to the community to be pragmatic. In the fashion of "don't be so stubborn, let's have a good laugh about that debate, let's push now for the best solution."

It seems that for F2Pool the best solution is Segwit, they have already stated many times that they will signal for it eventually.


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April 01, 2017, 12:48:19 AM
 #25

It seems that for F2Pool the best solution is Segwit, they have already stated many times that they will signal for it eventually.
Really? I'd like to believe that but as far as I can see f2pool have always been evasive about elaborating definitively on their position. Do you have a reference for that?

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April 01, 2017, 01:14:49 AM
 #26

It seems that for F2Pool the best solution is Segwit, they have already stated many times that they will signal for it eventually.
Really? I'd like to believe that but as far as I can see f2pool have always been evasive about elaborating definitively on their position. Do you have a reference for that?

You're right, they have been not totally clear about their intention. I was referring to statements like this one, where they state they will first signal Segwit for Litecoin and then evaluate if they can signal for Bitcoin, too.

It's obviously possible that those statements were a maneuver to gain time - a timeframe when they could maximize their profits a bit more because of the high transaction fees.

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centralbanksequalsbombs
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April 01, 2017, 01:32:33 AM
 #27

It seems that for F2Pool the best solution is Segwit, they have already stated many times that they will signal for it eventually.
Really? I'd like to believe that but as far as I can see f2pool have always been evasive about elaborating definitively on their position. Do you have a reference for that?

You're right, they have been not totally clear about their intention. I was referring to statements like this one, where they state they will first signal Segwit for Litecoin and then evaluate if they can signal for Bitcoin, too.

It's obviously possible that those statements were a maneuver to gain time - a timeframe when they could maximize their profits a bit more because of the high transaction fees.

Sure, activating segwit on litecoin, an ethereum iteration, or any altcoin, is something more acheivable and probably makes way better sense. You can throw in blocksize changes, incentive program changes, etc to these types of altcoins as well.

It doesnt make sense for any of this to be forced upon Bitcoin unless if your motive is to destroy Bitcoin. This post explains that: titled "Hacks & puppets & forks - how to destroy bitcoin": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1834310.0

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April 01, 2017, 05:19:20 AM
 #28

the bitcoin signalling is obviously an April fool joke since they are signalling everything! (not sure if it is a good joke though)

but i think the litecoin part is going to happen. https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/847910867152719873 and i believe it will be a good thing to have it on litecoin first and move to bitcoin next.

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April 01, 2017, 05:26:26 AM
 #29

It seems that for F2Pool the best solution is Segwit, they have already stated many times that they will signal for it eventually.
I have no inside information nor do I have a reference to this, as it is speculation.

I think that f2pool (and likely other smaller pools that have not signaled any proposal) will signal for whatever proposal that first gets some hashrate percentage above 50%, and as more pools signal for this proposal, other pools will be under additional pressure to signal for this proposal.

I would say that the time from 51% to activation will be very short for whatever scaling solution gets implemented.

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April 01, 2017, 05:34:41 AM
 #30



https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/block/000000000000000001a04ace6390273bcecbe2b07603853987306c2c72723042

The weird part is that it is signalling so many things at once, besides BU! Is F2Pool trolling? Cheesy Stay tuned for a follow-up list.

Note: It has also started signalling Segwit on LTC less than 1 hour ago.

According to the coinbase, they may be also signalling for BU.

This is weird and in my opinion f2pool is trying to do some experiment as to what kind of core they will eventually use in their system. My friends made a joke about that and told me that f2pool will accept all those codes at once, they will divide the pool in different categories so they can accommodate all kind of miners who uses different kind of codes. I just simply told him that it is impossible to happen and probably later on they will post that kind of code will they support.

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April 01, 2017, 05:41:49 AM
 #31

Quite the April Fool's joke, I tell you. This goes to show how worthless of a political game signaling really is. Stick to the real thing! Smiley

i would not be surprised if antpool signaling for BU is a part fo the today april fool, even if it happened way before it, because i can't believe they are going with bu, when i remember clearly that in the past no pool was going to support block that were more than 2MB

or that or must be some sort of buy cheap coin on the market, because mienrs are also traders, that can manipulate the market
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April 01, 2017, 06:50:05 AM
 #32

i would not be surprised if antpool signaling for BU is a part fo the today april fool, even if it happened way before it, because i can't believe they are going with bu, when i remember clearly that in the past no pool was going to support block that were more than 2MB

Your wrong, there is long time agreement with most pools to support up to 8 MB blocks, thats why F2pool signalled 8MB for so long
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April 01, 2017, 07:28:39 AM
 #33

Either way I expect by April 2 they'll go back to signalling... nothing.

In the UK, an April fools prank must occur before midday, otherwise the joke is on you.

I assume all these little coin symbols people have acquired under their rank is bitcointalks fool's day joke?

Scaling and transaction rate: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306
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April 01, 2017, 07:43:51 AM
 #34

It seems different now, unless they managed to break Blocktrail:



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April 01, 2017, 07:58:40 AM
 #35

It seems different now, unless they managed to break Blocktrail:


They are still signaling for BU, with an EC of 25 MB blocks

The coinbase of block 459872 can be decoded to:
Quote
[...]EB25/AD23/8M[...]
I assume that blocktrail is probably looking for "EB1" which signals BU with an EC of 1MB blocks.

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April 01, 2017, 08:07:09 AM
 #36

It is hard to believe F2pool especially when today is april 1st.
But hope they continue signaling for segwit and the other pools start supporting one source code then finally we can have a consensus
Like to see how will BU respond to this.

The is question is why are they signalling many things ?






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April 01, 2017, 08:49:15 AM
 #37

In the meantime, we have to deal within the reality that Satoshi gave us. And that is Bitcoin will remain immutable. So Litecoin is where we can have big blocks, SegWit, and LN.

Notice how F2Pool has used April fools as a way to signal SegWit on Litecoin but to make it seem like he wasn't serious because he signaled conflicting things on Bitcoin. He is serious about the signaling on Litecoin. He wants SegWit (look at his efforts on Syscoin to test out activation), but he doesn't want to create conflict with those on Bitcoin who know that we must keep small blocks on Bitcoin else we lose the equilibrium that Satoshi design. So he signaled nonsense on Bitcoin and signaled serious SegWit on Litecoin.

The miners are navigating opportunity costs and power structures that Satoshi's design enables. I agree the process is noisy. Noise is a result of the imperfect matching of fungible money and non-fungible knowledge value. I wrote about this extensively else where. Very abstract concepts.


He is not signaling multiple conflicting things on Litecoin. He is using the above obfuscation exactly as I predicted he would. The economic reality is:

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/846760903739551744


Can't you see what he is signaling?

Review those tweets again.

He is signaling:

1. Hey Bitcoin can't come to a consensus on any changes. This is a mess. I'll express my disgust with an April fools joke by signaling conflicting positions simultaneously.

2. I can't signal multiple conflicting options on Litecoin. Thus I am making a very strong implied message for those who aren't too dumb to see it.

Do you guys get it now? He is signaling that Bitcoin is a clusterfuck where the softfork can't be achieved. And he is signaling that Litecoin doesn't have the conflicting mess and he is ready and willing to activate SegWit on Litecoin if the consensus threshold of 75% is reached.

Litecoin's miners and whales have every incentive to activate SegWit so that the price goes back up to $50.

It will happen. And SegWit won't happen on Bitcoin.

He just explained it all to you, if you are paying attention.
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April 01, 2017, 08:55:56 AM
 #38

<snip>

Looks like f2pool tried to push segwit activation on syscoin.

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/847493350072606724

If segwit is activated on altcoins, but not on bitcoin, do the altcoin developers know how to progress segwit? Could be a great way of lumbering altcoins with technical debt. (assuming segwit isn't forced activated)

Scaling and transaction rate: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306
Do not allow demand to exceed capacity. Do not allow mempools to forget transactions. Relay all transactions. Eventually confirm all transactions.
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April 01, 2017, 09:23:09 AM
 #39

<snip>

Looks like f2pool tried to push segwit activation on syscoin.

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/847493350072606724

If segwit is activated on altcoins, but not on bitcoin, do the altcoin developers know how to progress segwit?

Charlie Lee works for Coinbase. I presume Blockstream's bankster backers will realize they need to move forward and Litecoin provides them the easiest transition to do so, if they can't attain consensus for activating SegWit for Bitcoin. All affected parties will be forced to move in the path of least resistance.

Frankly I think it is quite dangerous to activate such radical changes to Bitcoin. Much better to activate on a lesser blockchain so if there are flaws and bugs then Bitcoin isn't as affected. Bitcoin needs to be stable and prioritize continuity, because it is intended to the gold standard of blockchain tokens.

LN is all about enabling private fractional reserve banking with centralized hubs. LN just doesn't scale otherwise (due to routing and other issues). That is probably why Blockstream received $70m in funding. Perhaps they thought they could hijack Bitcoin, but they will have to face the reality of the situation.

Ethereum will be shipping a beta of a LN clone soon named Raiden. So the pressure is mounting on Blockstream and also on everyone invested in Bitcoin. Seems to me that Litecoin is the best option available to all affected parties.

Perhaps Blockstream can sell the idea to themselves by keeping their options open to potentially migrate the new technologies to Bitcoin someday, while pushing forward on Litecoin as a testbed and also to get real world adoption underway asap.

It just makes all the sense to stop this squabbling and move on/forward. Our productive energies are best spent on evangelizing blockchains and not fighting amongst ourselves.
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April 01, 2017, 09:35:21 AM
 #40

Charlie Lee works for Coinbase. I presume Blockstream's bankster backers will realize they need to move forward and Litecoin provides them the easiest transition to do so, if they can't attain consensus for activating SegWit for Bitcoin.

I thought it was BTCC now, but still in the DCG portfolio, so the same sentiment.

Scaling and transaction rate: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306
Do not allow demand to exceed capacity. Do not allow mempools to forget transactions. Relay all transactions. Eventually confirm all transactions.
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