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Author Topic: Gibraltar War  (Read 1786 times)
stompix
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April 05, 2017, 12:17:29 PM
 #21

I don't think UK would want war at this point, especially for a small territory, however strategic the location is. Imagine how much trouble it would be when a NATO member attack another member. What would the other members do anyway?

The split with EU has revealed disunity in the UK, with some parts wanting to remain in the Union. Even within parts that is not likely to secede, support for Brexit is not full, imagine the people's reaction when their gov't go to war for a territory that wanted to stay in.

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NATO won't lift a finger.
NATO is meant as an organisation that deals with external threats.

That's why both Greece and Turkey became NATO members, to calm the waters.

In case of Gibraltar rumors those are pure rumors and stupid declarations made by stupid people.
A war will not happen in Europe and certainly not between Spain and the UK.

Also, unlike the Falklands, Gibraltar voted for the EU , so you won't be able to defend somebody if he doesn't want that.

And if somebody is stupid enough to believe that this "war" would be good for bitcoin he should really have a check.

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deisik
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April 05, 2017, 03:35:52 PM
 #22

I don't think that the United Kingdom will go to war with Spain, just over a tiny piece of rock. We are well past that stage, and Theresa May is a well experienced politician aware of the consequences of a physical war. If Kim Jong Un was in the place of Theresa, there was a chance though...

In fact, that's what we are led to believe

But if we are to cut all the crap, Kim Jong Un hasn't yet started any war during his reign to give any legitimacy to such claims. It is a war-mongering rhetoric on his side mostly, but, as the proverb goes, the barking dog does not bite. On the other hand, this queen (I refer to Elizabeth II) already has blood on her hands. GB has participated in a war over the Falkland Islands a few decades ago, so, as another proverb has it, the pot shouldn't call the kettle black

Geographically, neither Falklands nor Gibraltar should be a part of the Great Britain. Falklands should be returned to Argentina, and the Brits should evacuate the 2,000 or so colonizers there. Similarly, Gibraltar should be placed in a joint administration, or merged with Spain

As the proverb goes, come and take it

Geography starts playing a role when all other roles have been played off and it becomes impossible to defend some area militarily. But GB proved that it can defend it. If they couldn't they would likely try to save the face by pretending that the Falklands are too far from the motherland and they are not worth a penny. Right now it is Argentina who is in a position like this. Really, what prevents them from taking these wretched islands with force if they are so close while Britain is so far?

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April 05, 2017, 03:40:11 PM
 #23

I don't think that the United Kingdom will go to war with Spain, just over a tiny piece of rock. We are well past that stage, and Theresa May is a well experienced politician aware of the consequences of a physical war. If Kim Jong Un was in the place of Theresa, there was a chance though...


That "tiny piece of rock" guards the entrance to the Med - it was vital in WW2.

Besides the Gibraltans don't want to be Spanish - they are rich and happy being Brits.

I don't think it will come to war - Britain has lots of ways to make Spain back down. Spain depends on British tourists (17 million a year), plus selling agricultural produce to us. We could cripple them just with some sanctions.

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April 05, 2017, 03:42:16 PM
 #24

It won't be war, but the British will lose free access to other financial centers in Europe. Things will be more expensive if you think that economic barriers will arise. This is an opportunity to crypto community to deliver solutions to make financial transactions cheaper between UK and EU and, more important, for its citizens.

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April 05, 2017, 03:45:33 PM
 #25

As the proverb goes, come and take it

Geography starts playing a role when all other roles have been played off and it becomes impossible to defend some area militarily. But GB proved that it can defend it. If they couldn't they would likely try to save the face by pretending that the Falklands are too far from the motherland and they are not worth a penny. Right now it is Argentina who is in a position like this. Really, what prevents them from taking these wretched islands with force if they are so close while Britain is so far?

It seems to me that at this point of time Argentina is not that interested in forcibly asserting its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. The Argentine economy is not doing that great. But there is another important factor as well. The military strength of the UK is going down with every passing year. The Argentines may be waiting for the UK to become really weak, before they could wage a war against them.

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April 05, 2017, 05:07:08 PM
Last edit: April 05, 2017, 05:45:03 PM by deisik
 #26

As the proverb goes, come and take it

Geography starts playing a role when all other roles have been played off and it becomes impossible to defend some area militarily. But GB proved that it can defend it. If they couldn't they would likely try to save the face by pretending that the Falklands are too far from the motherland and they are not worth a penny. Right now it is Argentina who is in a position like this. Really, what prevents them from taking these wretched islands with force if they are so close while Britain is so far?

It seems to me that at this point of time Argentina is not that interested in forcibly asserting its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. The Argentine economy is not doing that great. But there is another important factor as well. The military strength of the UK is going down with every passing year. The Argentines may be waiting for the UK to become really weak, before they could wage a war against them

If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by

Though I don't think that the military machine of GB has completely rusted down, at least, not full yet. The Argentinians may have to wait too long till GB becomes weak enough to give the Falklands back to Argentina. It took almost 5 centuries till last Roman legion left Britain itself. But if it is ever going to that, the British may just sell the islands to some entity or country more powerful than themselves if they don't want to go through the humiliation of voluntary returning the islands to Argentina and still less suffer the consequences of military defeat

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April 06, 2017, 05:52:00 AM
 #27

As the proverb goes, come and take it

Geography starts playing a role when all other roles have been played off and it becomes impossible to defend some area militarily. But GB proved that it can defend it. If they couldn't they would likely try to save the face by pretending that the Falklands are too far from the motherland and they are not worth a penny. Right now it is Argentina who is in a position like this. Really, what prevents them from taking these wretched islands with force if they are so close while Britain is so far?

It seems to me that at this point of time Argentina is not that interested in forcibly asserting its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. The Argentine economy is not doing that great. But there is another important factor as well. The military strength of the UK is going down with every passing year. The Argentines may be waiting for the UK to become really weak, before they could wage a war against them

If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by

Though I don't think that the military machine of GB has completely rusted down, at least, not full yet. The Argentinians may have to wait too long till GB becomes weak enough to give the Falklands back to Argentina. It took almost 5 centuries till last Roman legion left Britain itself. But if it is ever going to that, the British may just sell the islands to some entity or country more powerful than themselves if they don't want to go through the humiliation of voluntary returning the islands to Argentina and still less suffer the consequences of military defeat

The last part of your post is definitely an attractive option for the Brits. Remember the sale of Diego Garcia (located in the Chagos Archipelago, previously part of the  British Indian Ocean Territory) to the Americans? The same can happen with the Falklands.

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deisik
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April 06, 2017, 09:15:04 AM
 #28

As the proverb goes, come and take it

Geography starts playing a role when all other roles have been played off and it becomes impossible to defend some area militarily. But GB proved that it can defend it. If they couldn't they would likely try to save the face by pretending that the Falklands are too far from the motherland and they are not worth a penny. Right now it is Argentina who is in a position like this. Really, what prevents them from taking these wretched islands with force if they are so close while Britain is so far?

It seems to me that at this point of time Argentina is not that interested in forcibly asserting its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. The Argentine economy is not doing that great. But there is another important factor as well. The military strength of the UK is going down with every passing year. The Argentines may be waiting for the UK to become really weak, before they could wage a war against them

If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by

Though I don't think that the military machine of GB has completely rusted down, at least, not full yet. The Argentinians may have to wait too long till GB becomes weak enough to give the Falklands back to Argentina. It took almost 5 centuries till last Roman legion left Britain itself. But if it is ever going to that, the British may just sell the islands to some entity or country more powerful than themselves if they don't want to go through the humiliation of voluntary returning the islands to Argentina and still less suffer the consequences of military defeat

The last part of your post is definitely an attractive option for the Brits. Remember the sale of Diego Garcia (located in the Chagos Archipelago, previously part of the  British Indian Ocean Territory) to the Americans? The same can happen with the Falklands.

There were quite a few such cases in history

Personally, I can recall at least two similar events when nations had to sell their overseas lands to a potential invader being unable to defend these lands. France sold Louisiana in the early 19th century to the US after Napoleon troops suffered a defeat from a rebellion leader Toussaint Louverture. And in the mid 19th century Russia sold Alaska again to the US. It is asserted that it had to sell this territory because it would be hard to defend if the US (or Britain) tried to annex the area by force. Nevertheless, it is a common sentiment between Russians that Alaska should be returned to Russia (together with California)

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April 06, 2017, 12:39:03 PM
 #29

As the proverb goes, come and take it

Geography starts playing a role when all other roles have been played off and it becomes impossible to defend some area militarily. But GB proved that it can defend it. If they couldn't they would likely try to save the face by pretending that the Falklands are too far from the motherland and they are not worth a penny. Right now it is Argentina who is in a position like this. Really, what prevents them from taking these wretched islands with force if they are so close while Britain is so far?

It seems to me that at this point of time Argentina is not that interested in forcibly asserting its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. The Argentine economy is not doing that great. But there is another important factor as well. The military strength of the UK is going down with every passing year. The Argentines may be waiting for the UK to become really weak, before they could wage a war against them

If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by

Though I don't think that the military machine of GB has completely rusted down, at least, not full yet. The Argentinians may have to wait too long till GB becomes weak enough to give the Falklands back to Argentina. It took almost 5 centuries till last Roman legion left Britain itself. But if it is ever going to that, the British may just sell the islands to some entity or country more powerful than themselves if they don't want to go through the humiliation of voluntary returning the islands to Argentina and still less suffer the consequences of military defeat

It's going to be a long long waiting game.
It might happen that the entire river will either change it's course or go dry.
History repeats itself but not always.

How long since the last war between countries in Western Europe?
We are right now in the longest peace period between the major powers in Europe since the dark ages..

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April 06, 2017, 02:43:11 PM
 #30

As the proverb goes, come and take it

Geography starts playing a role when all other roles have been played off and it becomes impossible to defend some area militarily. But GB proved that it can defend it. If they couldn't they would likely try to save the face by pretending that the Falklands are too far from the motherland and they are not worth a penny. Right now it is Argentina who is in a position like this. Really, what prevents them from taking these wretched islands with force if they are so close while Britain is so far?

It seems to me that at this point of time Argentina is not that interested in forcibly asserting its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. The Argentine economy is not doing that great. But there is another important factor as well. The military strength of the UK is going down with every passing year. The Argentines may be waiting for the UK to become really weak, before they could wage a war against them

If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by

Though I don't think that the military machine of GB has completely rusted down, at least, not full yet. The Argentinians may have to wait too long till GB becomes weak enough to give the Falklands back to Argentina. It took almost 5 centuries till last Roman legion left Britain itself. But if it is ever going to that, the British may just sell the islands to some entity or country more powerful than themselves if they don't want to go through the humiliation of voluntary returning the islands to Argentina and still less suffer the consequences of military defeat

It's going to be a long long waiting game.
It might happen that the entire river will either change it's course or go dry.
History repeats itself but not always.

How long since the last war between countries in Western Europe?
We are right now in the longest peace period between the major powers in Europe since the dark ages..

I guess that a major war amidst Europe would actually work against Argentina

If I got your point correct, of course. You seem to imply that when (if) a war starts in Europe in which GB is going to participate, it will lose all interest toward their overseas territories, right? And then Argentina could easily capture the Falklands, as you seem to assume. In reality, though, if anything such is going to happen, Britain will just nuke Argentina back into Stone Age without much ado, and it will quickly forget about the islands for the next few centuries (if not millenia)

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April 07, 2017, 02:57:00 AM
 #31

if war happens in gibraltar possibility bitcoin prices will be raised up, because it uses cryptography cryptocurency character so many people who secured the money in bitcoin and away from unieropa and English, but still have a high risk for bitcoin exchange rate that can change direction quickly. if war happens it will hamper the development of the euro and pound, while the USD will have a very good value. or the possibility of the Europeans will change their local currency into USD with a bitcoin? , No one knows correctly what is happening on the battlefield.


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April 07, 2017, 03:37:42 AM
 #32

Great Britain (which is not so great anymore) and its government as well as its people can not afford a real war. All of these are just words...playing with words and making threat via the power of words. I am sure that Putin is just smiling at those words because the man knows how to make those words into actions...

I am predicting that a time is coming when Britain has to let go of that important holding called The Rock. It will then returned to its historical owner as Britain will again slowly shrink and just become a bit player in the international area...this is the same trend happening now in USA as all empire will eventually die and just become a footnote in history.

Russia, China, Iran and Germany (being EU leader) will scramble to replace USA and Britain in international leadership. And all of these nations can't be trusted to respect democracy, human rights and acceptable historical understanding.
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April 07, 2017, 05:02:01 AM
 #33

I guess that a major war amidst Europe would actually work against Argentina

If I got your point correct, of course. You seem to imply that when (if) a war starts in Europe in which GB is going to participate, it will lose all interest toward their overseas territories, right? And then Argentina could easily capture the Falklands, as you seem to assume. In reality, though, if anything such is going to happen, Britain will just nuke Argentina back into Stone Age without much ado, and it will quickly forget about the islands for the next few centuries (if not millenia)

If there is a major war in Europe, and the United Kingdom is one of the participating nations, then Argentina can easily get support from the other side. Suppose if the war is between the UK and Germany, then Argentina can strike a deal with Germany. In this deal, the Argentines will provide military help and food exports to Germany in exchange for the Germans providing air defense for Argentina.

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April 07, 2017, 05:36:23 AM
Last edit: April 07, 2017, 07:13:10 PM by deisik
 #34

I guess that a major war amidst Europe would actually work against Argentina

If I got your point correct, of course. You seem to imply that when (if) a war starts in Europe in which GB is going to participate, it will lose all interest toward their overseas territories, right? And then Argentina could easily capture the Falklands, as you seem to assume. In reality, though, if anything such is going to happen, Britain will just nuke Argentina back into Stone Age without much ado, and it will quickly forget about the islands for the next few centuries (if not millenia)

If there is a major war in Europe, and the United Kingdom is one of the participating nations, then Argentina can easily get support from the other side. Suppose if the war is between the UK and Germany, then Argentina can strike a deal with Germany. In this deal, the Argentines will provide military help and food exports to Germany in exchange for the Germans providing air defense for Argentina

You must be kidding mate!

Do you think that Argentina becoming an ally of Germany will somehow save it from nuking? I guess that would actually make it into a primary target. GB will never nuke Germany, no matter how things are going to evolve (since that would most likely lead to an escalation up to a full-fledged exchange of nuclear strikes across the world). Instead, they will just nuke Argentina (Falklands or no Falklands), and no one will give a fuck about poor Argentina. Germany will most certainly seek help from Russia, and you can pretty soon expect Russian "peacekeepers" to be deployed near la Manche. And the war will be over in two weeks (with Putin declared as the emperor of a new Holy Roman Empire, from ocean to ocean). The US most likely won't interfere (as per usual in any serious skirmish)

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April 07, 2017, 06:50:05 PM
 #35

I don't think that the United Kingdom will go to war with Spain, just over a tiny piece of rock. We are well past that stage, and Theresa May is a well experienced politician aware of the consequences of a physical war. If Kim Jong Un was in the place of Theresa, there was a chance though...


That "tiny piece of rock" guards the entrance to the Med - it was vital in WW2.

Besides the Gibraltans don't want to be Spanish - they are rich and happy being Brits.

I don't think it will come to war - Britain has lots of ways to make Spain back down. Spain depends on British tourists (17 million a year), plus selling agricultural produce to us. We could cripple them just with some sanctions.

GB sanction against any EU country will cause whole EU countrys sanctions  against GB,it will be like war.GB is in Europe and both EU need to find agreements similar like EU has with Norway and Switzerland.Some politicians needs to learn diplomacy and shut up.Spain is even against Scotland membership in EU.


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frankbit
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April 07, 2017, 07:23:01 PM
 #36

Never going to happen. The people of Gibraltar want to live in the UK. Who in their right mind would try to fight with Britain?
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April 07, 2017, 07:24:12 PM
 #37

It won't be war, but the British will lose free access to other financial centers in Europe. Things will be more expensive if you think that economic barriers will arise. This is an opportunity to crypto community to deliver solutions to make financial transactions cheaper between UK and EU and, more important, for its citizens.

That's profound and I couldn't agree more but even if they go to war or not we need to address the issues surrounding Bitcoin to make it a better cryptocurrency for all of us. Low transaction fees and quicker confirmations should be a top priority irrespective of whether they end up going to war or not?
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April 07, 2017, 08:14:49 PM
 #38

The thing is there is simply no reason for Spain to bother going to war for something like Gibraltar. If Gibraltar had a lot more value behind it, then maybe I could see there being a Falklands-esque conflict occurring, but Spain doesn't have a lot of the navy, money or need to justify something like that. They have enough internal problems that having Gibraltar wouldn't really do anything to help them.

Bitcoin's value would likely go up in the event such a war did break out, but unless the EU or other countries wanted to escalate it there would be no issue.

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April 07, 2017, 10:06:45 PM
 #39

War everywhere lately.
Is this the start of a world war coming into place with all these different first world countries starting their own little wars everywhere? Then cultivating into one huge one with Russia siding with Syria and US siding with UK against the Falkland island oppressor?
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April 07, 2017, 11:10:24 PM
 #40

this is a subject that ain't even worth discussing. of course there won't be any war. at the very worst it'll be an even bigger pain in the ass crossing the border into spain. there's stuff like this everywhere that's been dragging on for centuries with no more than harsh words. look at morocco and ceuta/melilla. it's a slightly different situation in that morocco didn't even exist back then but broadly similar.
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