Well, well, well, now we know what Jihan Wu’s been up to.

[Killerpotleaf]

Can anyone find a flaw in my analysis?

not really. it rings a tad false to me, and seems highly speculative, but its a workable theory...

[1715473783]

1715473783

[1715473783]

1715473783

[andyatcrux]

So sorry for the random interjection here but I have regularly observed what seems to be a purely ideological debate against *between blockstream and the presumption that centralized miners are either good or bad actors so.....

Ugh, do I really need to care about centralized hubs in the future? If the market decides they are great and people want to go through them to benefit from the blockchain, why should I care? As long as I can still conduct peer to peer transactions from my own wallet, what skin is it off my back?

yes, these are generalizations, call me devil's advocate.

[iamnotback]

Can anyone find a flaw in my analysis?

not really. it rings a tad false to me, and seems highly speculative, but its a workable theory...

If you can't come up with an alternative ECONOMICALLY plausible theory, then you'll know mine isn't speculative.

You can't just believe what people say. You have to analyze if what they say makes any sense or not.

[Quickseller]

Why would Bitmain not want a larger max block size? Larger blocks will ultimately lead to additional total tx fees (and in turn higher overall block rewards), both of which will lead to greater profitability of those who run their equipment, which would theoretically lead to higher market prices for their equipment, and most importantly, more profits for them.

1. Because killing Blockstream and removing their ability to destroy Bitmain (and Bitcoin) by controlling the protocol is more important.

2. Because SegWit can be added on Litecoin where they can still earn all those fees, and Blockstream will be impotent.

It all about removing the coup d'etat of Blockstream.

In that way I like Bitmain, but as I said the Chinese are fucking with us and making it a fucking mess. I really blame PoW, because PoW makes all of this shit possible.

Can there be a better way? Maybe not. Maybe yes. I have ideas I need to go work on.

So are there are any objections to my analysis of this fucking mess?

1 - they could degrade the influence of blockstream by implementing BU (which they are doing) and/or implementing another scaling solution that blockstream does not support

2 - I don't think Bitmain even sells LTC ASICs. However the market for BTC ASICs is much larger than the market for LTC ASICs.

[anonymoustroll420]

It doesn't look like there is very much data available for this measurement. It looks like unit costs of internet declined by ~1/3 in 2015 and 40% in 2014 though. I would be surprised to see those levels of price declines to entirely reverse in the span of two years.

Yea it looks like things have improved in the US since the last time I researched this. But the article I linked from 2011 shows that internet speeds do not follow moore's law and can drop significantly in the course of a few months.

Some anecdotal evidence, my internet speed has dropped from 250Mb to 50Mb over the past 4-5 years, when it actually works, due to the outdated network being congested by a population surge and higher bandwidth demands. I do not have the choice of switching to a different ISP and my ISP has no incentive to do anything about it as there is no competition. The situation is so bad people are trying to build a local meshnet type system so we can share files locally in the area, though the speed of that is just as bad. Better technology does not mean end users will have access to it. 4 years ago I had one of the fastest connections in the world at the time, now I have shit. The situation can change rapidly

[Killerpotleaf]

So sorry for the random interjection here but I have regularly observed what seems to be a purely ideological debate against *between blockstream and the presumption that centralized miners are either good or bad actors so.....

Ugh, do I really need to care about centralized hubs in the future? If the market decides they are great and people want to go through them to benefit from the blockchain, why should I care? As long as I can still conduct peer to peer transactions from my own wallet, what skin is it off my back?

yes, these are generalizations, call me devil's advocate.

NO you dont need to worry about " centralized hubs " ( as long as you dont use them )
are you worried about bitfinex, mtgox, mybitcoin.com??
not if you dont use them...

what's important is that YOU can TX on the main chain.
and more then once every 5 years when you either buy a car or house -_-
it very important the blockchains is open to as many people as possible.
running a full-archive-supernode by as many poeple as possible, not so important...

[Quickseller]

It doesn't look like there is very much data available for this measurement. It looks like unit costs of internet declined by ~1/3 in 2015 and 40% in 2014 though. I would be surprised to see those levels of price declines to entirely reverse in the span of two years.

Yea it looks like things have improved in the US since the last time I researched this. But the article I linked from 2011 shows that internet speeds do not follow moore's law and can drop significantly in the course of a few months.

Some anecdotal evidence, my internet speed has dropped from 250mb to 50mb over the past 4-5 years, when it works, due to the 15+ year old coaxial network being congested. I do not have the choice of switching to a different ISP and my ISP has no incentive to do anything about it as there is no competition. Better technology does not mean end users will have access to it.

Fair enough. Although the longer term trends to point to faster internet speeds.

I would also point out that a full node will do very little for you if those you are trading with are not trusting you to send first to them. (at least in terms of security, it will help somewhat in terms of privacy, although I believe this is probably mostly marginal). If you are buying BTC from coinbase and subsequently spending that BTC over time at merchants that utilize BitPay to process their transactions, then using a full node to validate transactions from coinbase will do little good, because if coinbase were to cheat you, they might as well send you nothing, and full nodes do not need to validate that a transaction that you sent has confirmed.

[Quantus]

Chines mining pools have been pumping out empty blocks and spamming the network with fake transactions to boost their own hardware efficiency.

Using fake transactions to boost mining efficiency or mining empty blocks is detrimental to the network and Bitcoin as a whole.

Using transaction malleability with fake transactions Chines mining pools were able make 20 to 30% more in profits; thus leading to a monopoly, they acted in their own best interest and I can't blame them or fault them for that.

For years now they have used their profits to prevent development of the network to protect their secret advantage. It is the Bitcoin community's fault for not understanding the scope of the threat upon us.

But its not enough to just distribute this method of mining because it is detrimental to the network as a whole. We must cut this cancer out at all cost or Bitcoin will die.

Bitcoin Unlimited, Bitcoin XT, Bitcoin classic were all made to protect this secret advantage for chines mining pools. They made millions of dollars over the last 4 years. They have paid shills trying to confuse and obfuscate the truth.

These shills must be called out for what they are. They must be rooted out.

[Killerpotleaf]

Can anyone find a flaw in my analysis?

not really. it rings a tad false to me, and seems highly speculative, but its a workable theory...

If you can't come up with an alternative ECONOMICALLY plausible theory, then you'll know mine isn't speculative.

You can't just believe what people say. You have to analyze if what they say makes any sense or not.

heres one
bitmain wants bigger blocks so he can rake in more fee.
he wants the biggest blocks the network will allow him to make!
and blockstream is MAJORLY in his way / threatening to take away a huge  amount to TX demand of chain
bitmain must do everything in his power to make sure HE profits from bitcoins success not Blockstream.
bigger blocks is his goal.

and IMO whats good for miners is good for us. (mostly true)

[Alex.BTC]

Internet connection speeds have not improved. In the US, the average internet connection speed has been dropping recently due to increased loads due to HD video streaming etc and not enough investment in new infrastructure to counter this.

A big cause of this was many years ago ISP's set up coaxial networks instead of fibre to try and save money, and it's just not economical to rip out the coaxial and replace it with fibre now. Another cause is that in many areas people only have the choice of one ISP. That ISP has a monopoly and has no incentive to invest in a better network as there is no competition. Government regulations prevent new ISP's from setting up in the area, due to the ISP's lobbying to get this regulation past.

Try the last couple of years.
https://www.theverge.com/2012/5/1/2990469/average-global-internet-speed-drop-us

What a load of bullshit.

Why the fuck are you quoting shits from 2011 when we're now in 2017 and FCC has stated that 'Average U.S. Internet speed has more than tripled since 2011', back in 2016?

http://bgr.com/2016/01/02/us-internet-speeds-average/
Average U.S. Internet speed has more than tripled since 2011

As for which nationwide ISPs deliver the highest average download speed, the study found that Cablevision checked in at number one with an average speed of 60 Mbps, followed by Verizon and Charter at 50 Mbps, Cox at 40 Mbps and Comcast at 35 Mbps.

As for the average Internet speeds across different states, New Jersey had the highest figure with 57 Mbps while Idaho came in last with an average Internet download speed of 14 Mbps.

The FCC’s full report is available in its entirety via the source link below.

What kind of dumb fuck use 2011 data in 2017 for something as fast growing as the internet, you're either yet another intentionally dishonest shill or yet another uninformed dumb fuck trolling over shit he doesn't understand.

[iamnotback]

heres one
bitmain wants bigger blocks so he can rake in more fee.
he wants the biggest blocks the network will allow him to make!

I already refuted that. You are repeating your same argument which doesn't make any economic sense.

[anonymoustroll420]

What kind of dumb fuck use 2012 data in 2017 for something as fast growing as the internet, you're either yet another intentionally dishonest shill or ury another uninformed dumb fuck trolling over shit you don't understand.

Yea the situation has change dramatically in the US since the last time I researched it which I guess was a few years ago. The point I was trying to make, was that internet speeds do not follow moore's law and are not guaranteed to get better over time as end users do not always get access to that better technology due to ISP monopolies and the high cost of replacing infrastructure. They can drop dramatically in a short period of time, as the 2011 article showed the speed dropped 14% in the course of 3 months. In many countries, and in certain areas of the US and other countries, speeds have dropped dramatically. Including in my area where I have 20% of the speed I had 4-5 years ago. Read the rest of my posts

[Killerpotleaf]

Internet connection speeds have not improved. In the US, the average internet connection speed has been dropping recently due to increased loads due to HD video streaming etc and not enough investment in new infrastructure to counter this.

A big cause of this was many years ago ISP's set up coaxial networks instead of fibre to try and save money, and it's just not economical to rip out the coaxial and replace it with fibre now. Another cause is that in many areas people only have the choice of one ISP. That ISP has a monopoly and has no incentive to invest in a better network as there is no competition. Government regulations prevent new ISP's from setting up in the area, due to the ISP's lobbying to get this regulation past.

Try the last couple of years.
https://www.theverge.com/2012/5/1/2990469/average-global-internet-speed-drop-us

What a load of bullshit.

Why the fuck are you quoting shits from 2011 when we're now in 2017 and FCC has stated that 'Average U.S. Internet speed has more than tripled since 2011', back in 2016?

http://bgr.com/2016/01/02/us-internet-speeds-average/
Average U.S. Internet speed has more than tripled since 2011

As for which nationwide ISPs deliver the highest average download speed, the study found that Cablevision checked in at number one with an average speed of 60 Mbps, followed by Verizon and Charter at 50 Mbps, Cox at 40 Mbps and Comcast at 35 Mbps.

As for the average Internet speeds across different states, New Jersey had the highest figure with 57 Mbps while Idaho came in last with an average Internet download speed of 14 Mbps.

The FCC’s full report is available in its entirety via the source link below.

What kind of dumb fuck use 2011 data in 2017 for something as fast growing as the internet, you're either yet another intentionally dishonest shill or yet another uninformed dumb fuck trolling over shit he doesn't understand.

[Killerpotleaf]

heres one
bitmain wants bigger blocks so he can rake in more fee.
he wants the biggest blocks the network will allow him to make!

I already refuted that. You are repeating your same argument which doesn't make any economic sense.

wtf doesn't make sense about providing a better service for cheaper?

seems like the in thing to do...

[ImHash]

Some people trying to change the subject here, bitmain mined with S9s for more than 3 months before they even announce that they'll going to manufacture a new generation of miners and additionally mined for 3 more months after the news came out and now I bet they're already mining with next gen ASIC miners for a few month now but could you really blame them? people will do whatever earns them more, they should've changed the POW protocol when first ASIC came out and started mining not now after +70% of total bitcoin supply been mined.

How would you know if some nerd genius isn't mining 30 blocks a day with just using a hand made ASIC like super miner with the cost of only $10,000?

[Killerpotleaf]

How would you know if some nerd genius isn't mining 30 blocks a day with just using a hand made ASIC like super miner with the cost of only $10,000?

we'd check the blockchain.

[Alex.BTC]

Yea the situation has change dramatically in the US since the last time I researched it which was a few years ago. The point I was trying to make, was that internet speeds do not follow moore's law and are not guaranteed to get better over time as end users do not always get access to that better technology due to ISP monopolies and the high cost of replacing infrastructure. They can drop dramatically in a short period of time, as the 2011 article showed the speed dropped 14% in the course of 3 months. In many countries, and in certain areas of the US and other countries, speeds have dropped dramatically. Including in my area where I have 20% of the speed I have 4-5 years ago. Read the rest of my posts

Irrelevant, bullshit is still bullshit, 2011 is still 2011 and 2017 is still 2017, the internet has never stopped changing 'dramatically'. It doesn't take a genius to know things will only keep improving.

All you need to do is type 'average internet speed' in a search engine and you'll find similar facts. Instead you went out of your way to dig back 5 years and pull out bullshit links from fucking 2012 using data from 2011 just to support a bullshit statement, search engines don't even show results that old unless you really dig for it.

I am so fucking sick and tired of you shills/trolls/uninformed fucks making idiotic statements over and over base on either outdated data or just flat out bullshit, repeating the same FUD week after week.

[iamnotback]

heres one
bitmain wants bigger blocks so he can rake in more fee.
he wants the biggest blocks the network will allow him to make!

I already refuted that. You are repeating your same argument which doesn't make any economic sense.

wtf doesn't make sense about providing a better service for cheaper?

seems like the in thing to do...

You don't seem to understand Bitmain's opportunity cost function. Economics is important. Without a solid grasp of economics, you will be entirely lost.

[Killerpotleaf]

all in favor of blockstream moving to LTC while we incress blocksize in a permanent way, fix malleability in a simple way (we gata let Poon have his fun with LN), discuss fex transactions, make gmax shit bricks, and move pirce north 4000%,  rise your hand.



ok its settled then.

[iamnotback]

all in favor of blockstream moving to LTC while we incress blocksize in a permanent way, fix malleability in a simple way (we gata let Poon have his fun with LN), discuss fex transactions, make gmax shit bricks, and move pirce north 4000%,  rise your hand.



ok its settled then.

All in favor of destroying Bitcoin in a clusterfuck of bugs and poor design please raise your hand.