The Switzerland of Bitcoin

[Carlton Banks]

It feels like there never will be one individual "Bitcoin country", the propagation so far has been thin and disparate. The imbalance of having an economy (especially a small national economy) that all but forces all foreign inflows and outflows to convert into and out of BTC should act as a natural barrier to it. What I'd expect is the low-level prevalence to gently climb amongst many economies and "common business pathways", until BTC use and inter-use get to some significant minority status within these numerous nations. Then, it's make or break (before that stage happens, transaction rate scaling problems must be solved + economic crisis must be kicked further into the rough)

Right now, the Bitcoin safe haven is confined to bedrooms, basements, apartments and datacenters across the whole world. Better than a nation state IMO.

I think we should form a virtual state.

I think we might already be doing it 

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[xxjs]

I can't answer the question, but shouldn't Panamá at least be on the list?

They have no central bank. They're also "dollarized". The Panamanian government has much less motivation to resit Bitcoin than most others, as it doesn't control money supply (so it doesn't feed itself from inflation) and it doesn't even have a central bank cartel to look after. Of course, when pressure comes from uncle Sam, they may eventually fold. But that applies to all of them.

Panama is one of a few countries that use USD in stead of its own money. Digging just a bit, it appears that they also have a Panama Balboa, which is pegged to the USD. They have not printed bills for years, and their coins have the same shape as the USAian ones. They have a relatively small government consistent with absense of the inflation tax. It could also be non-related. There is close connection to the USA via different treaties, Panama Canal, return of bases, war on drugs. Supposedly some of the police and militarty support programs from USA could compensate for the lack of inflation tax. They also have a "vibrant" financial sector.

[marcus_of_augustus]

It feels like there never will be one individual "Bitcoin country", the propagation so far has been thin and disparate. The imbalance of having an economy (especially a small national economy) that all but forces all foreign inflows and outflows to convert into and out of BTC should act as a natural barrier to it. What I'd expect is the low-level prevalence to gently climb amongst many economies and "common business pathways", until BTC use and inter-use get to some significant minority status within these numerous nations. Then, it's make or break (before that stage happens, transaction rate scaling problems must be solved + economic crisis must be kicked further into the rough)

Right now, the Bitcoin safe haven is confined to bedrooms, basements, apartments and datacenters across the whole world. Better than a nation state IMO.

I think we should form a virtual state.

I think we might already be doing it 

These are actually really important ideas. I'm not sure if you have read Stephenson's "SnowCrash" but there is a theme running through it whereby virtual nations are formed around common virtual currencies, kind of like rewards point or etc issued by multi-nationals and other groups.

So imagine if many local bitcoin groups formed their own bitcoin-friendly trading areas (e.g. Kreuzberg), gated communities, villages or similar all over the world. Then when any bitcoin user is travelling they can stay at the local bitcoin village and use his/her bitcoins there. These 'enclaves' form something of separate micro-economy in each of the countries they reside but are all connected by the common currency globally. Like a global 'virtual' state that exists inside every nation state they are allowed to ...

[luckyindia]

Presently Bitcoin is in Beta phase-it is in CORRECTION MODE.The Switzerland of Bitcoin is that virtual land where BTC is freely convertible to any fiat currency/precious metal.....and where NO FUCKING HACKER  can dance as every Bitcoin exchange functions with GOLD STANDARD as its FUNDAMENTAL STRENGTH....Please check www.milligold.org

[Spekulatius]

Ukraine?

[legendster]

Ukraine?

Support your Answer with reason ?

[tspacepilot]

You forgot The Principality of Sealand.

No, I'm not trolling. I think they, or another micronation, could very well take Switzerland's place in the Bitcoin economy.

Its just a small platform on 2 giant Pillars !!! no way in hell will it be ale to support & sustain itself in the long run ... let alone support the Bitcoin community !

All they need is a lot of servers and good bandwidth.  Why would the size of the platform get in the way?

[Carlton Banks]

It feels like there never will be one individual "Bitcoin country", the propagation so far has been thin and disparate. The imbalance of having an economy (especially a small national economy) that all but forces all foreign inflows and outflows to convert into and out of BTC should act as a natural barrier to it. What I'd expect is the low-level prevalence to gently climb amongst many economies and "common business pathways", until BTC use and inter-use get to some significant minority status within these numerous nations. Then, it's make or break (before that stage happens, transaction rate scaling problems must be solved + economic crisis must be kicked further into the rough)

Right now, the Bitcoin safe haven is confined to bedrooms, basements, apartments and datacenters across the whole world. Better than a nation state IMO.

I think we should form a virtual state.

I think we might already be doing it  

These are actually really important ideas. I'm not sure if you have read Stephenson's "SnowCrash" but there is a theme running through it whereby virtual nations are formed around common virtual currencies, kind of like rewards point or etc issued by multi-nationals and other groups.

So imagine if many local bitcoin groups formed their own bitcoin-friendly trading areas (e.g. Kreuzberg), gated communities, villages or similar all over the world. Then when any bitcoin user is travelling they can stay at the local bitcoin village and use his/her bitcoins there. These 'enclaves' form something of separate micro-economy in each of the countries they reside but are all connected by the common currency globally. Like a global 'virtual' state that exists inside every nation state they are allowed to ...

Indeed, the proto-state-virtual trail seems to be nearing unbroken chain proportions according to coinmap.org. USA and EU can almost be traversed spending BTC on the vitals as you go, but there just isn't quite enough take-up to reliably get all goods everywhere. I thought the recent thread asking "are we in a closed-loop economy yet?" was interesting, it seems that Finland is closest of all. And you might expect that independent, self-reliant attitude from that sort of culture. Maybe the virtual state trail isn't yet possible trans-nationally, but you could have a close simulation by taking a week or a weekend out in Helsinki. Like a Bitcoin POS shop window  

[600watt]

what about germany ?

http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/

http://www.coindesk.com/germany-official-recognises-bitcoin-as-private-money/

[akhentek]

Canada should be on that list.

FinTrac is the FinCen equivalent here, and their guidance is regards to digital currencies is much more favourable than our neighbours south of the border.

[Herp]

Germany is missing from the list. Berlin is already most popular Bitcoin city and attitude towards Bitcoin in Germany has been very friendly at the political level. After the nightmare of Weimar inflation a such deflationary currency is certainly an appealing proposition. It's also great way for Germans to escape the upcoming massive ECB printing.

[DPoS]

Maybe India if they get their head out of their ass

they just dumped their currency 25% recently so the people got hosed there.. but it keeps the outsource jobs flowing

[tristan_luther]

Maybe India if they get their head out of their ass

they just dumped their currency 25% recently so the people got hosed there.. but it keeps the outsource jobs flowing

I would be shocked if it is a country as vast, diverse, undeveloped, and superstitious as India. It would benefit them greatly if/when they do embrace virtual currency, but I cannot envision them leading the way. It will almost certainly be a small, progressive, technologically advanced country like Finland.

[Carlton Banks]

Maybe India if they get their head out of their ass

they just dumped their currency 25% recently so the people got hosed there.. but it keeps the outsource jobs flowing

I would be shocked if it is a country as vast, diverse, undeveloped, and superstitious as India. It would benefit them greatly if/when they do embrace virtual currency, but I cannot envision them leading the way. It will almost certainly be a small, progressive, technologically advanced country like Finland.

I'm sort of surprised that Iceland haven't had more (visible) BTC take-up, although maybe they're just not shouting about it. Smaller than Finland, progressive, and technologically advanced too, plus there's the Internet Freedom^tm branding as well. Maybe they're cautious about wild sounding banking concepts after their banking collapse, though.

[AndrewWilliams]

You guys are way off base.


You need to look at which countries have the best privacy laws.


Off the top of my head:


Principality of Andorra (located between Spain and France)
Monaco (Principality)
Samoa
Bahrain
Malta
Seychelles
Sultunate of Brunei
Mauritius
Panama
Belize
Bahamas
British Virgin Islands
Gibraltar (UK)



Read this website: http://www.streber.st/
It talks about the best countries to form an offshore corporation based on privacy laws and taxation laws. I believe the same principles would apply to this thread.

[tristan_luther]

It would make a lot of sense for a state with adversarial relations with the United States (Iran comes to mind) to embrace Bitcoin. It would be a great way to get around the economic sanctions, while posing more of a threat to Washington than it could ever do militarily.

[AndrewWilliams]

It would make a lot of sense for a state with adversarial relations with the United States (Iran comes to mind) to embrace Bitcoin. It would be a great way to get around the economic sanctions, while posing more of a threat to Washington than it could ever do militarily.

If you want Bitcoin to die a quick death, then hope for that scenario. Really, could your suggestion be any dumber?

[becoin]

It would make a lot of sense for a state with adversarial relations with the United States (Iran comes to mind) to embrace Bitcoin. It would be a great way to get around the economic sanctions, while posing more of a threat to Washington than it could ever do militarily.

If you want Bitcoin to die a quick death, then hope for that scenario. Really, could your suggestion be any dumber?

Any arguments to back your statement?

[AndrewWilliams]

It would make a lot of sense for a state with adversarial relations with the United States (Iran comes to mind) to embrace Bitcoin. It would be a great way to get around the economic sanctions, while posing more of a threat to Washington than it could ever do militarily.

If you want Bitcoin to die a quick death, then hope for that scenario. Really, could your suggestion be any dumber?

Any arguments to back your statement?

Sorry, I thought I was dealing with someone who knew better...


But to help you out, look at the state of Iran's current economy. In the last 2 years it has had crippling inflation, produce is unaffordable for the average Iranian.
Why? Because the US and cooperating International Countries have levied sanctions on this murderous regime who threatens to commit genocide on an entire nation, while actively pursuing nuclear weapons. Why would you want to side with the enemy of the USA and allied countries?

If you want to attach Bitcoin to Iran you are guaranteeing that the US will focus it's efforts at destroying Bitcoin, in everyway possible. That is a line you do not want to cross.

I almost forgot to mention, their are international economic sanctions on Iran, with VERY HARSH PENALTIES for ANYONE who does business with Iran in any way, shape or form.

Plus, who the hell wants to be associated with Iran? The country's leaders regularly preach "death to the infidel" (any non-Muslims). They follow Sharia Law and accordingly cut off the hands of thieves, make raped women marry their rapist, and worse.



Still think it's a good idea?

[eXme]

plzzzz pick Nigeria!!1