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Author Topic: BTCOracle : Bet on the future price of bitcoin !  (Read 8442 times)
DarkEmi (OP)
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May 14, 2013, 09:30:26 AM
Last edit: May 14, 2013, 01:29:41 PM by DarkEmi
 #41

I'd suggest working on the FAQ pages, but other than that you may have to decrease payouts again! Smiley

Thanks for your feedback, I updated the FAQ for grammatical mistakes and incorrect information.

http://btcoracle.com/faq.php

As our odds, I think they are low enough right now :-)
Our goal is still to have them as high as possible, but so far players are winnings on most of the big bets so thats hard to sustain

We still paid another ~3 bitcoins to our "top" player which manage to keep winning :p Congrats !

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dudi
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May 14, 2013, 07:34:14 PM
 #42

15% profit margin not too much guys?
DarkEmi (OP)
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May 15, 2013, 01:26:09 AM
 #43

15% profit margin not too much guys?

Actually,

Thats a very good point, and one that is bothering us, as we want to offer a possibly profitable service (as can be leveraged trading like bitfinex / bitcoinica etc.). And one that can feels profitable to the users, beyond those that are here purely for the thrill of gambling.

So first let me expand on WHY our margin seems so big :

- If the people and the price is truly random, then obviously the true odds would be 1:2. That would makes our margin insane.
What we are aiming for is not a frightening 15% fee or whatever, but rather a less than 5% house edge.

But in a practical world : So far we have a few traders that managed to win a TON, like winning 2/3rd of their bets. And they are betting BIG. We lost almost 10 bitcoins since starting this business.

Is this random luck ? Are we just randomly running very bad ? We can't really tell. Maybe a few guys are super skilled, using some walls patterns, betting at the right time, or even having a way to slightly manipulate the market. We really have no idea.
Obviously winning day traders exist in real markets, so that's definitely a possibility.
 All we know is that, if we were to break even for all bets so far, we would need to offer a 1.60 price multiplier.
As our pockets aren't infinite and since our statistical data is far from being wide enough, we have no over protection mechanism than to lower the odds to these theorical odds

- Finally, comparable business often have payout very low like 60% etc. even with crazy volumes (binary options trading website "scam" which tends to market themselves as investment "win 10 000$ in a few hours from home ! easy without market knowledge" etc.)

What we are thinking to introduce now, is a hedging service : For example, You think 1.60 price multiplier is really too low ? Ok, we let you propose 1.80 to everybody using our website, and then the betters are matched against your offer using your bitcoins. If you are convinced that this is profitable long term, then you have an easy mechanism of making money by playing the "banks" instead of us.

Of course this is not something we actually propose, just something we are thinking of designing to allow the fairest deal we can offer to the users.

Would people be interested to put their money at stakes and proposing better odds than us for the same service ?
Thats an idea we wanna explore.

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dudi
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May 15, 2013, 07:44:34 PM
 #44

brada, i think you wanna make money without any skill. the site based on full standard odds. really?
lets try make dynamic odds maybe...  if the trend is UP, offer smaller odds on up... and smarter margin will be able to. you understand me. best regards
darkmule
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May 16, 2013, 02:07:41 PM
 #45

I have come up with a very low-fee way of gambling on the future value of BTC. 

Now, this might be a little crazy, but I take this one step.  I buy some BTC!  My winning potential is unlimited.

Half-kidding, it seems like an amusing idea.
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May 20, 2013, 01:38:28 PM
 #46

Ladies and Gents,

We added a set of new tools for users to check their bets and the prices we use to determine wins and loses !

Have a look and tell us what you think.

Good luck !
Mooshire
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May 20, 2013, 07:25:30 PM
 #47

Looks cool enough.

DarkEmi (OP)
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May 23, 2013, 09:52:37 PM
 #48

Hello guys, we just did a major update with all of the following :

We have just proceeded to a major upgrade including the following changes :

Added 2 new time frames : 15 minutes and 1 day
Improved leaderboard
Improved address selection system
Added Coinbase support
Added live chat
Added history page
Improved FAQ

www.btcoracle.com

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vlees
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May 24, 2013, 04:10:43 PM
Last edit: May 24, 2013, 04:22:36 PM by vlees
 #49

Added 2 new time frames : 15 minutes and 1 day

Thanks, tried the 15 minute address Cheesy

Feature request: show the servertime on the page or put a countdown in seconds next to every bet.

EDIT: And the payout came in. Nice service. Very fast.

BEEP BEP
DarkEmi (OP)
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May 24, 2013, 09:07:47 PM
 #50

Added 2 new time frames : 15 minutes and 1 day

Thanks, tried the 15 minute address Cheesy

Feature request: show the servertime on the page or put a countdown in seconds next to every bet.

EDIT: And the payout came in. Nice service. Very fast.

Thanks for your feedback, this is noted we will try to do that !

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May 26, 2013, 06:43:51 AM
 #51

Are the times on the webpage my local time?
vlees
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May 26, 2013, 10:09:37 AM
 #52

Are the times on the webpage my local time?

No, they are the servers time and the servers time is about 1.5 minutes off compared to the real time I think.

Also I noticed a few bets were denied by you? What happened there?

BEEP BEP
DarkEmi (OP)
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May 26, 2013, 01:18:44 PM
 #53

Are the times on the webpage my local time?

No, they are the servers time and the servers time is about 1.5 minutes off compared to the real time I think.

Also I noticed a few bets were denied by you? What happened there?

Some people tried to robs us by using "double spend" transactions. We corrected it "live" by manually denying the bets but one people was still able to stole us a little bit, now this won't work anymore.

So now we wait for 3 confirmations on bets to give the winnings.

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DarkEmi (OP)
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May 26, 2013, 01:20:30 PM
 #54

Are the times on the webpage my local time?

I am not sure which time you are talking about. The time the bets are registered are the timestamp provided by blockchain.info, as can be verified by clicking on any link.

So thats a neutral source that anyone can verify.

The time we display on your webpage are your local time so thats easier for you to understand when bets close but we are using universal unix timestamps internally.

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vlees
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May 26, 2013, 01:34:49 PM
Last edit: May 26, 2013, 02:04:43 PM by vlees
 #55

So now we wait for 3 confirmations on bets to give the winnings.

Okay, makes sense, but I saw you also denied at least 2 transactions that are actually confirmed:

https://blockchain.info/tx/9a174f5d3bae4982a52d8672ab90f9f0749cd60b18a41655732488f4f88b46f4
and
https://blockchain.info/tx/09b0ab554d78fc1e6547cebc2d839e9dc41e7427c507f64a7ff8e7b3cea619eb

Or am I missing something here?

EDIT: Also five times in a row I had the problem that the price was high for a long time so I send money to 15 min down. The next transaction is about 30 seconds later with someone dumping a lot of BTC -> That is the price the system takes. Suddenly I apparently bet on 15 min down with a starting price of 130USD (instead of 135.9) (this is an example) after which the price immediately goes up again.

So could you please take the price at the moment the money actually came in? And the same for determining the end-price: the price it was actually at the moment it passed and not the first price after it ends.

Because this is really starting to piss me off.

BEEP BEP
DarkEmi (OP)
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May 26, 2013, 02:43:12 PM
Last edit: May 26, 2013, 03:37:20 PM by DarkEmi
 #56

So now we wait for 3 confirmations on bets to give the winnings.

Okay, makes sense, but I saw you also denied at least 2 transactions that are actually confirmed:

https://blockchain.info/tx/9a174f5d3bae4982a52d8672ab90f9f0749cd60b18a41655732488f4f88b46f4
and
https://blockchain.info/tx/09b0ab554d78fc1e6547cebc2d839e9dc41e7427c507f64a7ff8e7b3cea619eb

Or am I missing something here?

EDIT: Also five times in a row I had the problem that the price was high for a long time so I send money to 15 min down. The next transaction is about 30 seconds later with someone dumping a lot of BTC -> That is the price the system takes. Suddenly I apparently bet on 15 min down with a starting price of 130USD (instead of 135.9) (this is an example) after which the price immediately goes up again.

So could you please take the price at the moment the money actually came in? And the same for determining the end-price: the price it was actually at the moment it passed and not the first price after it ends.

Because this is really starting to piss me off.

Yes, thats our "thief".

As you can see from his history page :

http://btcoracle.com/search.php?s=13s1X8sLYcJsQKXbya5u91mE5bKEnc8jTP+

He stole much from us (many of his winnings are double spend) so we "took" his 2 last bets (which he was trying to make as double spend as well).

About your inquiry, i am deeply sorry for your experience.

We had a previous system exactly like the one you are suggesting, we were taking the "last" trade before the bet timestamp, now we are taking the first from the time of the bets.

The first solution (the one you say we should do) is the one we had in place earlier for a few weeks. It was more confusing for users and we were unable to propose automated verification with a mtgox link.

We are also thinking of moving to a "moving average" method or something, but it would be more confusing as well for users.

But I am really taking your feedback into account, and maybe we will move back to the "previous" system : the one where the price you get is the one at the time of your bet, not from the very next trade.
I completly understand how it can feel unfair.

For us it was a trade off :

What you propose feels more correct, but it is harder to give automated verification links so user can verify

Based on your feedback, we will probably move back to your proposition, which was as I said our initial system, but it would take us a few day of development and tests before that's available again.

Regards


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DarkEmi (OP)
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May 26, 2013, 03:12:42 PM
 #57

If you give me your bets address, I will see what we can do.

But you have to understand that our expected margins are really thin (<5% and so far we did not win money) so we cant really send you much back

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May 31, 2013, 04:16:11 PM
 #58

Hello guys, quick update to let you know we added achievements !

Example with one of our top players :

http://btcoracle.com/search.php?s=1AJD99s615goCyfdpUBNTJ4m577jbpSZT1

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June 10, 2013, 05:01:11 PM
Last edit: June 10, 2013, 11:07:04 PM by deadweasel
 #59

Hello guys, quick update to let you know we added achievements !

Example with one of our top players :

http://btcoracle.com/search.php?s=1AJD99s615goCyfdpUBNTJ4m577jbpSZT1

I sent a TXN when price was at 107.62.  It was from blockchain.info.   Apparently it didn't register at the same time, or real time.

https://blockchain.info/tx/34209b9b6398d41aa4c9dccc0580f4f600d876d58fe2f402a453d0408624f2f5

So I'm out .3BTC because your site claims real time betting from blockchain.info and I believed it.

How does that constitute real time betting from blockchain.info?

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June 12, 2013, 10:05:58 AM
 #60

Hello guys, quick update to let you know we added achievements !

Example with one of our top players :

http://btcoracle.com/search.php?s=1AJD99s615goCyfdpUBNTJ4m577jbpSZT1

I sent a TXN when price was at 107.62.  It was from blockchain.info.   Apparently it didn't register at the same time, or real time.

https://blockchain.info/tx/34209b9b6398d41aa4c9dccc0580f4f600d876d58fe2f402a453d0408624f2f5

So I'm out .3BTC because your site claims real time betting from blockchain.info and I believed it.

How does that constitute real time betting from blockchain.info?


I would really like an answer to this, as the same thing happened to me a few times. The site owners seem to be missing in action or they just don't care...

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