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Author Topic: 90 Cents is the Best Bitcoin Value  (Read 6517 times)
Enochian
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June 17, 2011, 11:26:39 PM
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If we could make a stable market in Bitcoins at a price of 90 cents each, Bitcoins would take off as an alternative currency.

First, regular merchants could advertise that they accept payment for purchases from their store in either Bitcoins or dollars.  This would give customers paying in Bitcoins an automatic 10% discount on their purchases.  This discount for customers paying in Bitcoins, and the fact that the store accepts Bitcoins, would attract additional business to the merchant, and more than cover the cost of giving the discount.

Second, as long as merchants used their Bitcoins to purchase stuff they needed from other merchants also accepting Bitcoins, accepting Bitcoins wouldn't cost them anything at all.  The 10% cost of converting Bitcoins back into dollars would only affect the last guy in the chain.  This would suck dollars into the Bitcoin economy and keep the Bitcoins circulating.

Third, at a price of 90 cents each, early adopters who created and stashed hundreds of thousands of Bitcoins away back when mining was easy, have no chance of becoming Bitcoin Multibillionaires.  They would have to settle for a modest reward for their contributions.

Bitcoins are presently trading at $15.80.  What sorts of things could we do to incentivize them to trend towards their ideal value of 90 cents?



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imperi
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June 17, 2011, 11:28:18 PM
 #2

Bitcoins are presently trading at $15.80.  What sorts of things could we do to incentivize them to trend towards their ideal value of 90 cents?



Well, I think that a massive, sustained DDOS against Mt. Gox would reduce the price quite a bit. Basically any reduction of liquidity would drop the price.
Adam
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June 17, 2011, 11:32:18 PM
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We must DDOS Bitcoins to save them from themselves

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June 17, 2011, 11:35:12 PM
 #4

If we could make a stable market in Bitcoins at a price of 90 cents each, Bitcoins would take off as an alternative currency.

First, regular merchants could advertise that they accept payment for purchases from their store in either Bitcoins or dollars.  This would give customers paying in Bitcoins an automatic 10% discount on their purchases.  This discount for customers paying in Bitcoins, and the fact that the store accepts Bitcoins, would attract additional business to the merchant, and more than cover the cost of giving the discount.

There actually are people outside the US, you know? I for one would rather have the bitcoin at 90 EUR-cents for your reasons, heck, make that 9 EUR, that would be quite close to the actual price!
 Cool

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
imperi
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June 17, 2011, 11:36:49 PM
 #5

If we could make a stable market in Bitcoins at a price of 90 cents each, Bitcoins would take off as an alternative currency.

First, regular merchants could advertise that they accept payment for purchases from their store in either Bitcoins or dollars.  This would give customers paying in Bitcoins an automatic 10% discount on their purchases.  This discount for customers paying in Bitcoins, and the fact that the store accepts Bitcoins, would attract additional business to the merchant, and more than cover the cost of giving the discount.

There actually are people outside the US, you know? I for one would rather have the bitcoin at 90 EUR-cents for your reasons, heck, make that 9 EUR, that would be quite close to the actual price!
 Cool


We will make it both 90 EUR-cents and 90 USD cents if you help with the DDOS, since bitcoincharts.com is on the list too. Does anyone have the email for Al Qaeda (Yahoo probably)? I know they have a vested interest in Bitcoin.
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June 17, 2011, 11:37:25 PM
 #6

If we could make a stable market in Bitcoins at a price of 90 cents each, Bitcoins would take off as an alternative currency.

First, regular merchants could advertise that they accept payment for purchases from their store in either Bitcoins or dollars.  This would give customers paying in Bitcoins an automatic 10% discount on their purchases.  This discount for customers paying in Bitcoins, and the fact that the store accepts Bitcoins, would attract additional business to the merchant, and more than cover the cost of giving the discount.

Second, as long as merchants used their Bitcoins to purchase stuff they needed from other merchants also accepting Bitcoins, accepting Bitcoins wouldn't cost them anything at all.  The 10% cost of converting Bitcoins back into dollars would only affect the last guy in the chain.  This would suck dollars into the Bitcoin economy and keep the Bitcoins circulating.

Third, at a price of 90 cents each, early adopters who created and stashed hundreds of thousands of Bitcoins away back when mining was easy, have no chance of becoming Bitcoin Multibillionaires.  They would have to settle for a modest reward for their contributions.

Bitcoins are presently trading at $15.80.  What sorts of things could we do to incentivize them to trend towards their ideal value of 90 cents?

WOW !!

So I guess shareholders in other companies who got increases for early buyers/investors of 10000% and far higher, should also simply concede lowering the shareprice because they got in early for cheap and now benefit from the late stage share price?

This kind of logic and suggestions should not be involved in financial industries, otherwise we could debate anything should have a common value essentially making everything the same and worthless at the bitter end.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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June 17, 2011, 11:38:30 PM
 #7

We don't need to do anything to influence the market.  If that is indeed the ideal price, then the price will drop from where it is due to lack of interest, and when it reached that point, merchants would begin trending towards bitcoins for the reasons you suggested.  If the natural equilibrium is higher, market forces will drive it to that in the long run.

Against my better judgement... 1ADjszXMSRuAUjyy3ShFRy54SyRVrNDgDc
tymothy
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June 18, 2011, 12:12:15 AM
 #8

If we could make a stable market in Bitcoins at a price of 90 cents each, Bitcoins would take off as an alternative currency.

First, regular merchants could advertise that they accept payment for purchases from their store in either Bitcoins or dollars.  This would give customers paying in Bitcoins an automatic 10% discount on their purchases.  This discount for customers paying in Bitcoins, and the fact that the store accepts Bitcoins, would attract additional business to the merchant, and more than cover the cost of giving the discount.

Second, as long as merchants used their Bitcoins to purchase stuff they needed from other merchants also accepting Bitcoins, accepting Bitcoins wouldn't cost them anything at all.  The 10% cost of converting Bitcoins back into dollars would only affect the last guy in the chain.  This would suck dollars into the Bitcoin economy and keep the Bitcoins circulating.

Third, at a price of 90 cents each, early adopters who created and stashed hundreds of thousands of Bitcoins away back when mining was easy, have no chance of becoming Bitcoin Multibillionaires.  They would have to settle for a modest reward for their contributions.

Bitcoins are presently trading at $15.80.  What sorts of things could we do to incentivize them to trend towards their ideal value of 90 cents?





You seem to have no concept of the way a free market functions. A conversion of 1 BTC to .9 USD is advantageous for purely psychological purposes. Even a tiny bitcoin economy could not function at a .9 USD  conversion rate as there simply aren't enough bitcoins available to function at such a value. Merchants looking to facilitate the adoption of bitcoin should offer discounted prices for those using bitcoin.
Enochian
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June 18, 2011, 12:19:12 AM
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You seem to have no concept of the way a free market functions.

You mean like the US and European economies are functioning right now?  Or Greece?



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June 18, 2011, 12:22:34 AM
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You seem to have no concept of the way a free market functions.

You mean like the US and European economies are functioning right now?  Or Greece?





You equate the current government mock job economies as free economies?

Its far from that.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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June 18, 2011, 12:25:04 AM
 #11

Posts like this really annoy me. Do you not understand we will only have 21 million bitcoins ever? So for billions upon dollars of currency out there, this means its impossible to value bitcoin at 90 cents or anything stupidly low like that. As more and more people use bitcoins, the value always HAS to increase.

Do you think if the USA prints double the amount of dollars now, that they could buy euros or any other currency for the same price? NO. They will be paying DOUBLE for all the currency now.

/endthread and beyond stupid OP
Enochian
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June 18, 2011, 12:30:00 AM
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Posts like this really annoy me. Do you not understand we will only have 21 million bitcoins ever?

That's the way the system works at present, but it could easily be modified to allow Bitcoins to be issued by a central reserve bank in return for dollars, as well as created by mining.

If we fix the value at 90 cents, then of course, we need the ability to supply as many Bitcoins as people wish to purchase.

I would be more than happy to issue imaginary Bitcoins in return for hard currency.  It's the least I can do for the Bitcoin community.  Would you like me to write some patches for the client?

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June 18, 2011, 12:36:45 AM
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Posts like this really annoy me. Do you not understand we will only have 21 million bitcoins ever?

That's the way the system works at present, but it could easily be modified to allow Bitcoins to be issued by a central reserve bank in return for dollars, as well as created by mining.

If we fix the value at 90 cents, then of course, we need the ability to supply as many Bitcoins as people wish to purchase.

I would be more than happy to issue imaginary Bitcoins in return for hard currency.  It's the least I can do for the Bitcoin community.  Would you like me to write some patches for the client?



I understand what your trying to do, but thats not how it works, and no one even wants it to work like that. The more "reasonable" thing to do is request that the creator of the program triple everyones amount of Bitcoins until the price is again around $1 vs. the dollar.

This would make it so that no one loses any value on their bitcoins, and like you suggested, would bring more people interested in using bitcoins, even though they still have the same damn value, but to others they may not comprehend why bitcoin is priced so high.. (which you don't seem to comprehend either but whatever)

Currency relates to the stock market and how things work, a lot of times when stocks become too high, they will do what I mentioned, double or tripple everyones stock or whatever to lower the price of each stock retaining everyones value.

Example:
$10 worth of shares = 1 stock
Give everyone double stocks and reduce price by 50%
Now everyone has 2 stocks worth $5 each

The same concept can be used with bitcoins.

This of course, would have to be agreed upon by the community, and I believe one day something like this may have to happen because I see many people turned off at the idea of having a future where we commonly trade 0.00000012 bitcoin at a time if more and more people choose to use this currency with the limit of 21 million.


imperi
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June 18, 2011, 12:37:44 AM
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I'm pretty sure he's trolling guys, he just wants attention.
Garrett Burgwardt
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June 18, 2011, 12:42:04 AM
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Posts like this really annoy me. Do you not understand we will only have 21 million bitcoins ever?

That's the way the system works at present, but it could easily be modified to allow Bitcoins to be issued by a central reserve bank in return for dollars, as well as created by mining.

If we fix the value at 90 cents, then of course, we need the ability to supply as many Bitcoins as people wish to purchase.

I would be more than happy to issue imaginary Bitcoins in return for hard currency.  It's the least I can do for the Bitcoin community.  Would you like me to write some patches for the client?



I understand what your trying to do, but thats not how it works, and no one even wants it to work like that. The more "reasonable" thing to do is request that the creator of the program triple everyones amount of Bitcoins until the price is again around $1 vs. the dollar.

This would make it so that no one loses any value on their bitcoins, and like you suggested, would bring more people interested in using bitcoins, even though they still have the same damn value, but to others they may not comprehend why bitcoin is priced so high.. (which you don't seem to comprehend either but whatever)

Currency relates to the stock market and how things work, a lot of times when stocks become too high, they will do what I mentioned, double or tripple everyones stock or whatever to lower the price of each stock retaining everyones value.

Example:
$10 worth of shares = 1 stock
Give everyone double stocks and reduce price by 50%
Now everyone has 2 stocks worth $5 each

The same concept can be used with bitcoins.

This of course, would have to be agreed upon by the community, and I believe one day something like this may have to happen because I see many people turned off at the idea of having a future where we commonly trade 0.00000012 bitcoin at a time if more and more people choose to use this currency with the limit of 21 million.




A split is very hard to pull off, in a currency like bitcoin. Well, no, but there are two ways it could be done. One would be UI based, but not add any granularity, the other is based in the blockchain and would potentially break compatibility and require everyone to upgrade.

More likely everyone will rebase their clients to use microbtc or something.
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June 18, 2011, 12:46:12 AM
 #16

I'm pretty sure he's trolling guys, he just wants attention.

Sure, and he already got mine  Grin

But the basic idea of promoting bitcoins by a "built-in" 10% discount is intriguing.

Won't happen, but it's a nice idea after all  Smiley

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
Icy-
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June 18, 2011, 12:50:20 AM
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I'm pretty sure he's trolling guys, he just wants attention.

That would make much better sense.. either trolling or he is just an idiot.
imperi
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June 18, 2011, 12:53:46 AM
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I'm pretty sure he's trolling guys, he just wants attention.

That would make much better sense.. either trolling or he is just an idiot.

If you look at his posting history he writes about some pretty technical things, dating back to May, so he's not some newbie. I think he's just starting a hypothetical conversation in a trolling manner.
Enochian
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June 18, 2011, 12:57:33 AM
 #19

I'm pretty sure he's trolling guys, he just wants attention.

Life is more fun if you're never 100% serious.

I do think, however, that ever increasing Bitcoin prices and price volatility are disincentives to the wider adoption of Bitcoin for Network commerce.

There are a number of community-based alternative currencies in circulation right now, and their success revolves largely around the type of incentives I mentioned in my original post.

If the Bitcoin community doesn't address these challenges, then it is likely that some commercial fork of Bitcoin which eliminates things like mining will be the successful version of the digital currency ideas that Bitcoin embodies.

Kind of like Altavista and Google.  Or the Apple Lisa and Windows 7.



Icy-
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June 18, 2011, 01:03:20 AM
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I'm pretty sure he's trolling guys, he just wants attention.

Life is more fun if you're never 100% serious.

I do think, however, that ever increasing Bitcoin prices and price volatility are disincentives to the wider adoption of Bitcoin for Network commerce.

There are a number of community-based alternative currencies in circulation right now, and their success revolves largely around the type of incentives I mentioned in my original post.

If the Bitcoin community doesn't address these challenges, then it is likely that some commercial fork of Bitcoin which eliminates things like mining will be the successful version of the digital currency ideas that Bitcoin embodies.

Kind of like Altavista and Google.  Or the Apple Lisa and Windows 7.





Or how about stores accept bitcoin at a lower going rate than they go for in USD? Because afterall, if bitcoins are to succeed as a currency, this means the value of bitcoins will always generally go upwords, just like gold and silver.

So they actually don't lose anything, and people using bitcoins earn somewhat of a interest overtime just for holding onto them.

Again, for stores to trust bitcoin means they trust it will last, for bitcoin to last, this means the value will always go up over time.

All of your logics fail miserably.
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