Bitcoin Forum
April 23, 2014, 09:18:39 AM *
News: Due to the OpenSSL heartbleed bug, changing your forum password is recommended.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2  All
  Print  
Author Topic: BitLaundry re-opens with exciting new security features you can't see!  (Read 2180 times)
mikegogulski
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349



View Profile WWW

Ignore
June 18, 2011, 01:18:39 AM
 #1

http://app.bitlaundry.com/

I've had the site down for most of a week, because I discovered a couple of *potential* holes that needed plugging. Back up and running, now, with the most important hole-plugging done, so launder away!

(BTW, if you just want a single-hop transaction bounce: http://www.bitcoinlaundry.com/ (yeah, it's similar))

FREE ROSS ULBRICHT, allegedly one of the Dread Pirates Roberts of the Silk Road
1398244719
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398244719

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1398244719
Reply with quote  #2

1398244719
Report to moderator
1398244719
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398244719

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1398244719
Reply with quote  #2

1398244719
Report to moderator

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1398244719
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398244719

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1398244719
Reply with quote  #2

1398244719
Report to moderator
done
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile

Ignore
June 18, 2011, 01:24:27 AM
 #2

best of luck with your venture
mikegogulski
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349



View Profile WWW

Ignore
June 18, 2011, 01:26:41 AM
 #3

best of luck with your venture

Thanks!

FREE ROSS ULBRICHT, allegedly one of the Dread Pirates Roberts of the Silk Road
bitlotto
SCAMMER
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


BitLotto - best odds + best payouts + cheat-proof


View Profile WWW

Ignore
June 18, 2011, 02:56:50 AM
 #4

Perhaps you should rename it? Launder I don't think is the best fit. Perhaps Anonymizing Service? It's what you do is allow people to be anonymous. Launder kind of implies funneling ill gained money into businesses to hide it. I know it would be a pain but I bet your service would get better reception!

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
fascistmuffin
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56



View Profile

Ignore
June 18, 2011, 03:02:36 AM
 #5

How much is it per load? And do you do pick ups or is it drop off only?
¢A$HÅ
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 37


stackin' them bits


View Profile WWW

Ignore
June 18, 2011, 06:08:09 AM
 #6

Launder kind of implies funneling ill gained money into businesses to hide it.
"Layering" is a phase of "money laundering." I think this qualifies.

noob777
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 9


View Profile

Ignore
July 29, 2011, 08:35:28 PM
 #7

Mike

What kind of volume are you seeing through your bitlaundry app?
Trader Steve
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 633


"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."


View Profile

Ignore
July 29, 2011, 09:22:46 PM
 #8

http://app.bitlaundry.com/

I've had the site down for most of a week, because I discovered a couple of *potential* holes that needed plugging. Back up and running, now, with the most important hole-plugging done, so launder away!

(BTW, if you just want a single-hop transaction bounce: http://www.bitcoinlaundry.com/ (yeah, it's similar))

Mike, can you give us an example of where the "single hop" would be more advantageous than the other?
lettucebee
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 253



View Profile

Ignore
July 29, 2011, 10:02:20 PM
 #9

Mike,
I just listened to your interview on AgoristRadio, which was fun. A question for you:  something that would be useful--nay, essential--in a laundering service is the assurance that one will receive new coins and not receive back any of the same coins of the original lot.

Not any not one!  Agreed?

Is there any way a user of your system could be assured of this?
mikegogulski
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349



View Profile WWW

Ignore
July 29, 2011, 11:31:39 PM
 #10

What kind of volume are you seeing through your bitlaundry app?

It varies quite a bit. I'm not going to put out exact status, but I can say that on some days I'll see nothing come in while on others I might see 500BTC.

Mike, can you give us an example of where the "single hop" would be more advantageous than the other?

Bitlaundry.com (the single-hope service) will basically wait for 10 confirmations on the input send, and then transmit the remainder immediately after taking the fee. That's probably as close to "instant" as I'll make it. The equivalent deposit to app.bitlaundry.com would involve a delay of 10 confirmations plus up to a day.

Single-hop services could conceivably be chained together to move coins around rapidly.

Mike,
I just listened to your interview on AgoristRadio, which was fun. A question for you:  something that would be useful--nay, essential--in a laundering service is the assurance that one will receive new coins and not receive back any of the same coins of the original lot.

Not any not one!  Agreed?

Is there any way a user of your system could be assured of this?

No, not at present, and that's something I couldn't do without hacking the wallet management code itself, or by taking an "outside-the-system" approach like the Bitcoin mixer running on TOR. If the mods proposed at http://coderrr.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/patching-the-bitcoin-client-to-make-it-more-anonymous/ get included into Bitcoin, though, it should become possible, though still subject to the limitation that someone sending in more coins than the service's pool holds will inevitably get some of their own in return.

FREE ROSS ULBRICHT, allegedly one of the Dread Pirates Roberts of the Silk Road
FreeMoney
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW

Ignore
July 29, 2011, 11:49:13 PM
 #11

It just occurred to me that you could ensure different coins by giving up the time promise. Essentially one would run a 1x 'pyramid'. You could let people choose a "give up" time too where they just get their own coins back.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
jimbo77
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 77


View Profile

Ignore
July 29, 2011, 11:50:03 PM
 #12

No, not at present, and that's something I couldn't do without hacking the wallet management code itself, or by taking an "outside-the-system" approach like the Bitcoin mixer running on TOR. If the mods proposed at http://coderrr.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/patching-the-bitcoin-client-to-make-it-more-anonymous/ get included into Bitcoin, though, it should become possible, though still subject to the limitation that someone sending in more coins than the service's pool holds will inevitably get some of their own in return.

Why not create two wallets? Wallet A and Wallet B. When they visit the site it automatically picks the wallet with the smallest balance. They could also select a different one if they are repeat customers so they always deposit into the same wallet every time. They then pick a withdrawal address. As soon as the other wallet gets enough coins it's paid out. They are guaranteed to never get their own coins back. If they are impatient they can cancel it and risk getting paid from the wallet they paid into. As long as you aren't keeping logs it would be impossible to follow as long as you used random pay out times and amounts!
lettucebee
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 253



View Profile

Ignore
July 29, 2011, 11:53:37 PM
 #13

Maybe if a person knew how many coins the service held, he/she could deposit no more than that.
onesalt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 308


View Profile

Ignore
July 29, 2011, 11:58:26 PM
 #14

Sweet this is a great idea and totally not going to get the fbi and major organised crime units interested in bitcoin at all welp cya
lettucebee
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 253



View Profile

Ignore
July 30, 2011, 12:03:33 AM
 #15

Of course, just creating a meetup of bitcoiners in your area (or anywhere you travel to) and swapping coins with them would scramble things a little too, you know?
realnowhereman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490



View Profile

Ignore
July 30, 2011, 09:11:46 AM
 #16

Mike,
I just listened to your interview on AgoristRadio, which was fun. A question for you:  something that would be useful--nay, essential--in a laundering service is the assurance that one will receive new coins and not receive back any of the same coins of the original lot.

Actually I think it would be unwise to put that condition on a mixer.

It reminds me of the method eventually used to break the enigma machines.  The breakers worked out that the enigma machine would never encode a letter to itself.  That gave them enough of a statistical hole that they could begin breaking.

In the same way, one could simply look at which output coins a person received that contained none of a particular input and voila, the connection is made from input to output.

The correct solution is that coins are completely randomly mixed.

1AAZ4xBHbiCr96nsZJ8jtPkSzsg1CqhwDa
lettucebee
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 253



View Profile

Ignore
July 30, 2011, 12:45:06 PM
 #17



Actually I think it would be unwise to put that condition on a mixer.

It reminds me of the method eventually used to break the enigma machines.  The breakers worked out that the enigma machine would never encode a letter to itself.  That gave them enough of a statistical hole that they could begin breaking.

In the same way, one could simply look at which output coins a person received that contained none of a particular input and voila, the connection is made from input to output.

The correct solution is that coins are completely randomly mixed.


You seem to describe a service where I would deposit coins, check to see that none of the original came back.  If they did, I deposit them again later after the service has recharged a little, check again.  Meanwhile I'm paying commissions each time.  This would be a nuisance.
makomk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686


View Profile

Ignore
July 30, 2011, 03:06:33 PM
 #18

Mike,
I just listened to your interview on AgoristRadio, which was fun. A question for you:  something that would be useful--nay, essential--in a laundering service is the assurance that one will receive new coins and not receive back any of the same coins of the original lot.

Not any not one!  Agreed?
Are you sure that's a good idea? Under some circumstances surely it'd be possible to match large incoming transactions with outgoing ones by the fact they have no coins in common. (Edit: In fact, this attack would probably work quite well against flows of smaller transactions too.)

Quad XC6SLX150 Board: 860 MHash/s or so.
SIGS ABOUT BUTTERFLY LABS ARE PAID ADS
realnowhereman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490



View Profile

Ignore
July 30, 2011, 03:20:00 PM
 #19

Actually I think it would be unwise to put that condition on a mixer.

It reminds me of the method eventually used to break the enigma machines.  The breakers worked out that the enigma machine would never encode a letter to itself.  That gave them enough of a statistical hole that they could begin breaking.

In the same way, one could simply look at which output coins a person received that contained none of a particular input and voila, the connection is made from input to output.

The correct solution is that coins are completely randomly mixed.


You seem to describe a service where I would deposit coins, check to see that none of the original came back.  If they did, I deposit them again later after the service has recharged a little, check again.  Meanwhile I'm paying commissions each time.  This would be a nuisance.

I don't know where you get that from.  I didn't mention commissions, or multiple cycles.

I'm merely describing a mixing service.   A mixer takes coins in and issues out coins to the same value to a new address under the control of a particular registered account.  When many people do this, then the output coins are not equal to the input coins and so you have anonymised whatever you fed in.  It works because it is a transfer done outside of the bitcoin blockchain.

It was suggested that the output coins should be strictly different from the input coins.  I was pointing out that that rule in itself is enough to link the inputs to the outputs, thus defeating the purpose of the mixer.


1AAZ4xBHbiCr96nsZJ8jtPkSzsg1CqhwDa
Trader Steve
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 633


"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."


View Profile

Ignore
July 31, 2011, 12:26:37 PM
 #20

Mike,

I tried testing your service and came up with error messages when it tried to generate an address for me to send a payment to. Any idea why? The amount attempted was 1 BTC.

Pages: [1] 2  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!