del

[HaXX0R1337]

I do not think that many people will use bitcoin if that happens.
Most people use bitcoin for the convenience and if we are charged 10-20% more then it will no longer be a convenient payment option i guess.

Bitcoin is not meant to send micro transactions and that is how things are going with the current developments, i am not sure whether the vision of satoshi will be like this,but the convenience factor to send micro transaction have to be neglected and we have to start considering bitcoin to store our assets than using it as a currency.

[QuestionAuthority]

Of course not, you'd have to be crazy to use any method of payment that costs 10-20% extra when you can use a debit or credit card and only spend 2%. Understanding the problem is one thing but how do you solve it?

I exchange btc for cash occasionally and get raped on both ends of the transaction. I don't see any solution or I'd already be using it.

[The One]

10% or 20%.

Bitcoin transfer fees are still much more affordable than its competitors:



80 cents, 0.0006 is about the number of stamps a person would put on an envelope to send a letter in the united states.

I've never heard anyone complain about how much stamps cost to send a letter.

Who are the competitors?

My bank online is free to send money to another person.

BTC isn't feasible at the moment. However if you have got them cheap then its ok. But i don't see the point in eroding my profit because of the current fiasco.

[Wind_FURY]

The reason for this might be tracked here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1865675.0

Unfortunately the thread has been hijacked by non believers and sig spammers.
So I thought about having a more mature discussion.

Two situations:

a) the price of the same good but it cost you 25 instead of 20 if you pay with bitcoins and not a damn visa

Happened to this poor guy, yours truly, when trying to fap a bit on chat website.
Joke aside unfortunately it happened also when I tried to purchase damn video card, and an extra of 7% was added so I said screw you!!!!

Even if it were priced the same if I was to use Bitcoin, I would still fiat or a credit card. I will only use Bitcoin if I could get a good discount, or if I cannot pay with fiat or credit card, meaning if I had really no choice but Bitcoin. The dark markets is a good example of this.

b) the real problem nowadays with micropayments

The transaction fees are going up.
So if you buy like the guy who opened the other thread a cup of coffee, you might end up paying double because the damn fees.
And this is not good.

Micro transactions are getting killed. Insecurity and price jumps are making people to add extra when you choose btc checkout.

Micro transactions for what? Coffee like your example? Use cash and spare yourself the headache. What stupid person is using Bitcoin to buy coffee everyday.

For the a case we have a solution. Boycott the damn gerbils.
But what we do about the micro payments.Abandon ship and discard them? Turn bitcoin into a store a value and large payments only?

Or go with the improvement? larger blocks ? LN ?

Before making your voice heard, try not to post some two line shit around , k?

I will go with the side that has good developers. If Bitcoin Unlimited was made up of better developers than Core then I could see myself follow them. Sadly they are not.

[stompix]

Short answer. NO!
Why the hell would you do that.Bitcoin means money. If you want just to purchase something do it with the method that is cheaper.

You have a card with rewards , do it with that.The shop offers 5% discount on cash do it with cash.
The cost for bitcoin is 10% extra  show them the finger.

But if the transaction cost is the problem things get complicated. I mean, we all want to support bitcoin and if we stop using it for micro payments then vendors that deal with cheap stuff will most likely not embrace bitcoin because of lack of customers.

And using a credit card that you load with bitcoins and you actually pay usd it's not using bitcoin.

[unamis76]

If this becomes a reality I'll stop using Bitcoin for shopping/payments. 10% extra is just too much. It doesn't compensate for the ease of use and security compared to traditional fiat methods. I think I can go further: if this becomes a reality not many people will actually use Bitcoin for anything except trading and maybe gambling.

Asking what we'll do about micropayments is taking a step back: things are already being done and scaling discussions have been ongoing for many, many months.

[Leonard2016]

a) the price of the same good but it cost you 25 instead of 20 if you pay with bitcoins and not a damn visa

Happened to this poor guy, yours truly, when trying to fap a bit on chat website.
Joke aside unfortunately it happened also when I tried to purchase damn video card, and an extra of 7% was added so I said screw you!!!!

i dont know why nobody has asked this so far but why are you keep repeating percentages and give huge amounts. i don't get it.
for example how in the world did a transaction cost $5 for you ($25 instead of $20) or is that in cent, that still won't make sense since fee is about 40 not 20 cents!

and also how did you pay 7% extra for a vide card, can you elaborate on that. for example did you pay $18 for a $266 graphic card?

b) the real problem nowadays with micropayments

The transaction fees are going up.
So if you buy like the guy who opened the other thread a cup of coffee, you might end up paying double because the damn fees.

the problem with you and that other thread is that you think you should pay for "anything" with bitcoin. yes it would be neat if we could but since the option is not here yet, then stick to other things bitcoin offers instead.
like the privacy and security and the fact that you don't have to answer to a bank.

[sevendust777]

I dont think I will still used bitcoin if it would cost 10-20% thats too expensive. I will look for others payment method instead. Im using bitcoin because of its cheaper transactions fees and fast transactions. But I dont think it will happen because people join bitcoin because of less costs.

[Wind_FURY]

I don't mind pay extra when i use bitcoin if it's because transaction fees or only because the merchants offer discount if you pay with other payment method, not because the merchants increase the price more than 2% just because i pay with bitcoin.
However, i don't use bitcoin for micro transaction at this moment and usually i buy lots of goods together and pay all of them in single bitcoin transaction in order to reduce transaction fee.

But i think people don't have to think about transaction fee anymore when SegWit+LN or BU is activated.

I think you are making that up. Please show those transactions in the blockchain and I will take back what I said. There is only a very small part of the "Bitcoin population" that really buys with BTC. Most of that occurs in the dark markets.

[FeelingVER]

I dont think I will still used bitcoin if it would cost 10-20% thats too expensive. I will look for others payment method instead. Im using bitcoin because of its cheaper transactions fees and fast transactions. But I dont think it will happen because people join bitcoin because of less costs.

Unfortunately, this can happen. Now there is a problem with transactions. And it must be solved. If this happens, then I will use the bitcoat only for investment

[ice18]

Yeah bitcoin transaction fees today was so terrible really frustrating if it reach up to 20% transaction fees I will rather use altcoins as an alternative to bitcoins this problem must be solve immediately in-order to maintain the dominance of bitcoins in the market.

[DoublerHunter]

Yeah bitcoin transaction fees today was so terrible really frustrating if it reach up to 20% transaction fees I will rather use altcoins as an alternative to bitcoins this problem must be solve immediately in-order to maintain the dominance of bitcoins in the market.

Using altcoins to send and do transaction and exchanging it into bitcoin using exchanger is a good idea because it will save a lot of time and it will receive immediately by the receiver but the thing is, it will just like paying 10-20% of your transaction because the fees from buying altcoins (if you don't have yet) and transferring it to the wallet and to the exchanger to change it to bitcoin will give you a lot of hassle.

[Lipe490]

Near the end of mining wait for big fees.

[RaXmOuSe]

New customers, who not owns bits of bitcoins, would ofcourse,- buy a cheaper way of spending money from FIAT etc into Cryptocurrency.

Why would I spend more % "money" for Coffé when I buy with Bitcoin when I can just use an alt with less % and more % for mai cafí? oui? si? niet?

nej, one would never use that as a regular consumer to pay more.

butttttttttttt


Would BTC be The Reserve currency in crypto? Most likely atm? Like The Dollar?


"1000k MILLION DOLLARZ SENDING? 600k DOLLARZ NOTHING MINERS BRO'S" ....like ok if some doin big transfers and are big capitalists or watheva , then that high fee model suits and might tie a purpose....but honestly, aint rich people like the most "SAVE MONEY"-attitude in the world? lol would they even wanna use something that is higher than another alternative? would there be a network with no sends and just store of value who have any relevance? I'm 2 n00by to guess tbh


...... I enjoy though to read and watch you all argue and talk, many of should come together in a great conclusion about Crypto as a whole and work together

[Jammalan the Prophet]

a) the price of the same good but it cost you 25 instead of 20 if you pay with bitcoins and not a damn visa

Happened to this poor guy, yours truly, when trying to fap a bit on chat website.
Joke aside unfortunately it happened also when I tried to purchase damn video card, and an extra of 7% was added so I said screw you!!!!

i dont know why nobody has asked this so far but why are you keep repeating percentages and give huge amounts. i don't get it.
for example how in the world did a transaction cost $5 for you ($25 instead of $20) or is that in cent, that still won't make sense since fee is about 40 not 20 cents!

and also how did you pay 7% extra for a vide card, can you elaborate on that. for example did you pay $18 for a $266 graphic card?

b) the real problem nowadays with micropayments

The transaction fees are going up.
So if you buy like the guy who opened the other thread a cup of coffee, you might end up paying double because the damn fees.

the problem with you and that other thread is that you think you should pay for "anything" with bitcoin. yes it would be neat if we could but since the option is not here yet, then stick to other things bitcoin offers instead.
like the privacy and security and the fact that you don't have to answer to a bank.

Pretty simple my fellow bitcoiner
When I clicked the magic button purchase credits (first example) I had a few options
 card/paysafe/bank/bitcoin
Funny how if I would have paid via cc I would have bought 20 for 20usd. With paysafe 20 for 25$ / same as btc.

Second example is when a damn mofo shop was also near scamming me of my precious bitcoin.
How was the 7 % difference obtained? Simple
Different exchange rate, they used 750 instead of 800 or so.
And it was not because of difference between the bitswamp or the bitibexit was because of greedy idiots

[bettercrypto]

If I have only Bitcoin then even if it is 50% extra, I will use it.  And since there is nothing like Bitcoin in its category, I am trapped with its expensive transaction fee.  As of now, do we have choices?  There maybe altcoins but are they accepted by different merchants the way Bitcoin is accepted?  So for a person who's only means of earning is thru Bitcoin trading and other online jobs that pays in Bitcoin, I guess I will be using it until there is an alternative.

[Wind_FURY]

I don't mind pay extra when i use bitcoin if it's because transaction fees or only because the merchants offer discount if you pay with other payment method, not because the merchants increase the price more than 2% just because i pay with bitcoin.
However, i don't use bitcoin for micro transaction at this moment and usually i buy lots of goods together and pay all of them in single bitcoin transaction in order to reduce transaction fee.

But i think people don't have to think about transaction fee anymore when SegWit+LN or BU is activated.

I think you are making that up. Please show those transactions in the blockchain and I will take back what I said. There is only a very small part of the "Bitcoin population" that really buys with BTC. Most of that occurs in the dark markets.

Usually i don't bother to give proof, but here's the proof with sign message :

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/tx/d9a228adcb68ea04128a0d2c52f8656ab78fab2349099a44b07f9c0aa729d083
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
1A3DH1CvUGp3F1LduAhQERfqEdN1aYoZjF

G5dz/vGjEcYfMl5DeKe6sRVZcodg6YBDQjaOB6P5CO99K5lWwhFK5wiovQFkVxAqaz3t00oom4ShZjIWiM8P9e8=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/tx/ddf1ebd3938fc0ee38b4d20ac1bd7cd4c704f64a691122e2e079e953741b4594
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
13mhsvDs4XWMZYjjKtaFxNxMPPhq5vDrcB

HDYAsNrASRQbDFcxSMttD8Co4G5+26oxI6FDpoHdya8RRlZZXfr49s/dRvBwWgrk+mSgryJXspjGe54SioBBEGc=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Usually i make those transaction when i buy gift cards, mobile recharge, video games (steam or bundle sites) and on-chain casino.

Ok I take back what I said. But maybe you used the Bitcoins you earned from your signature campaign to buy those items? Because it would not make sense to buy Bitcoins from an exchange just to purchase those said items. Except maybe for the anonymous casino.

[squatz1]

Do micropayments through offchain networks instead of blockchain?

Like fund a credit card or something similar and make microbuyings with the balance.

Also 10% or 20% still might still be cheaper for some transactions through more conventional ways, for example, for payments in certains countries, the fees and time required would be too costy

See the thing here is that you put forward saying that in some countries this would make sense, I'd be expecting this to be more third world or developing nations that are forced to be using those horrid wire transfer services that take a disgusting fee out of how much money you put forward.

In that case, yes those people would happily use Bitcoin if they'd be able to save money and be able to ACTUALLY CASH OUT THE BITCOIN WITH EASE.

But in a case like I'm in where I live in a first world country where credit cards and such are pretty prevalent I probably wouldn't be using Bitcoin if it cost that much more, I feel it'd be a waste and wouldn't be worth it anymore.

Though at the current state with the high trans fees I don't like using it.

[setupbounds]

It definitely is a problem. I have been considering this myself and am not sure if I would be willing to pay that extra 10 – 20 percent. It is a lot to ask when you don’t have to pay that with visa. I am scared this might affect the population of Bitcoin users since they will find out that it is not worth investing in unless they are holding large amounts of wealth that don’t get transferred a lot. We will end up only with people saving their coins and the price will fall. I hope I’m wrong though.

[timerland]

It definitely is a problem. I have been considering this myself and am not sure if I would be willing to pay that extra 10 – 20 percent. It is a lot to ask when you don’t have to pay that with visa. I am scared this might affect the population of Bitcoin users since they will find out that it is not worth investing in unless they are holding large amounts of wealth that don’t get transferred a lot. We will end up only with people saving their coins and the price will fall. I hope I’m wrong though.

That is a hard question for everyone, because im sure that not many people would accept the fact, that now they need to pay about 10% more, than previously.
It would put the fee so high, that using bitcoin would be really annoying sometimes, even for medium transactions!

I remember many threads, about people discussing is getting a salary in bitcoin except fiat is a good idea.
Fees going so high would probably kill that option, because if the boss needs to pay to 300 people, it is expensive to send so many transactions, with such a high commision.