Dash Instamine is a non-issue.

[toknormal]

A small example of the nonsense to be found in your "citations" from 1 year ago:

but I can tell you that it makes no economic sense to hold Dash long term unless it is in a masternode.

Dash ratio to Bitcoin at the time that post was made: 0.016
Dash ratio to Bitcoin today: 0.05+

A 300% return against Bitcoin for anyone not holding Dash in masternodes.

Dash exchange rate with $USD at the time that post was made: $5.94
Dash exchange rate with $USD today: $73

A 1200% return against the $USD for anyone not holding Dash in masternodes. (And that's after a 50% retrace from the last ATH).

Of course if anyone had listened to your overtures of the time they'd have been better throwing their money down the toilet.

Cite all the "observable facts" you like over the next few years. I might post a few of my own

[cryptohunter]

A small example of the nonsense to be found in your "citations" from 1 year ago:

but I can tell you that it makes no economic sense to hold Dash long term unless it is in a masternode.

Dash ratio to Bitcoin at the time that post was made: 0.016
Dash ratio to Bitcoin today: 0.05+

A 300% return for anyone not holding Dash in masternodes.

Dash exchange rate with $USD at the time that post was made: $5.94
Dash exchange rate with $USD today: $73

A 1200% return for anyone not holding Dash in masternodes.

Of course if anyone had listened to your overtures of the time they'd have been better throwing their money down the toilet.

Cite all the "observable facts" you like over the next few years as well. I might post a few of my own

Why are you quoting smooth here?

anyway...


LOL again no rebuttal of scam but instead a boasting of how much you have gained from being involved with a scam and promoting it. Classy

So yes you have proven scammers can scam money from people and make finanacial gain. Thanks.

so now Weve had

1. it is wrong to call a scam a scam because you are scamming those who could have benefitted more from the scam.
2. it was not a scam it was an accident and then another accident after to multiply the effect of the first accident.
3 you can make good gains from being involved with scams...

what other excuses can you invent?

toknormal please post whatever you like i enjoy your posts more than you know.

I don't think you need to prove scams can be lucrative ...you're doing this all wrong. You're not meant to be proving just how much profit you and other scammers have extracted from the crypto community and taken from fairer projects you are meant to be refuting that it is a scam. Have another try.

[toknormal]

what other excuses can you invent?

I'm not the one needing the excuse.

You are

[naidray]

Let people buy dash if they want but if they ask about the instamine/premine apparently fair launch POW don't tell them it wasn't a scam. It makes you a liar and a scammer yourself.

Actually it would do just the opposite - I'd be 'scamming' them if I did describe it as a scam and steering them away from what is a potentially very successful investment.

In fact Dash is one of the best distributed and thoughroghly viable assets out there right now. One who's history, personnel, technology and trading characteristics have probably been under the microscope more than any other crypto. Where the development team are all known, hard working individuals. Well managed and one of the few that hasn't collapsed in acrimony, that's consistently created sensible roadmaps and delivered on them.

2 million or so coins were mined in the first few hours. The emission profile got changed early on. Deal with it. It isn't a scam, it's something for the market to price in. As such it takes its place alongside offerings that don't have the instamine so stop acting like some 3 year old kid that's not being given a choice of toddler tea. Your faux ethics and sanctimonious ramblings are a poor disguise for the fact that you're simply nettled at the valuation.

Drink some more herbal tea and filter line 4 on your coinmarket listing and the discomfort will subside

Instamine is not a “scam” of its own but it always brings in a risk. If you consider the fact that Satoshi Nakomoto is said to mined 1 million bitcoins and owns it, same logic means bitcoin is a instamine and premined scam.

I think the only possible worse case scenario on Dash premine is if the developers or whoever holds those premined coins starts selling the coins in order to take profit, if it stays like that there is no problem at all. This creates a doubtful cloud over the buyers but not a huge one.

[toknormal]

I think the only possible worse case scenario on Dash premine is if the developers or whoever holds those premined coins starts selling the coins in order to take profit

There are no premined coins.

There were "fastmined" coins for a couple of hours during which many people mined.

The biggest holder however, was not a miner but a buyer, since even with the fastmine it was still cheaper to buy in markets than mine and there were tens of thousands on sale for several weeks for a few BTC.

That holder has since executed exactly your "worst case scenario" and sold nearly 80% of their holdings in OTC (over the counter) sales during the last couple of years. (Around 400,000 coins by most accounts I can gather).

[DrkLvr_]

Instamine is not a “scam” of its own but it always brings in a risk. If you consider the fact that Satoshi Nakomoto is said to mined 1 million bitcoins and owns it, same logic means bitcoin is a instamine and premined scam.

I think the only possible worse case scenario on Dash premine is if the developers or whoever holds those premined coins starts selling the coins in order to take profit, if it stays like that there is no problem at all. This creates a doubtful cloud over the buyers but not a huge one.

I realize people on this forum generally aren't that bright so i'll try to explain it slowly without using too many big words

Dash: 8 hours to INSTAMINE 1.5 million dash, emission changed from 500 to 5 after the instamine
Bitcoin: took about a year to MINE 1 million bitcoin, no emission change

GOT THAT?  

If the dev lies and makes excuses like Evan Duffield did, trying to downplay the instamine and act like it was an accident (oops!!!) then yes, it's a scam

[cryptohunter]

I think the only possible worse case scenario on Dash premine is if the developers or whoever holds those premined coins starts selling the coins in order to take profit

There are no premined coins.

There were "fastmined" coins for a couple of hours during which many people mined.

The biggest holder however, was not a miner but a buyer, since even with the fastmine it was still cheaper to buy in markets than mine and there were tens of thousands on sale for several weeks for a few BTC.

That holder has since executed exactly your "worst case scenario" and sold nearly 80% of their holdings in OTC (over the counter) sales during the last couple of years. (Around 400,000 coins by most accounts I can gather).

Why would we believe anything you or any other dasher says? Probably all bogus.

Yeah because mining blocks of 500 coins several per second was very costly and much cheaper to buy it really. Of course it was cheaper than basically free
. You could buy 2 million coins on the market for less than mining it for practically free with no competition.....wait no that sounds like the obvious lies someone like tok would tell you.

Tok speaks like he knows who retains what loot of dash they had. He has no idea.

These instamining whales probably spread their loot over many wallets and you will never know how much they have. Sold it to themselves etc etc.

Thats the problem, its simple to prove it was a scam we have all the evidence there in black and white. They cant transform a proven scam back to being legit. There is no way for it to happen other than restart it all again.

They did offer a 2 million coin air drop to this board.

But they cancelled it said not enough people seemed interested.

Yeah imagine that nobody is interested in 2 million dash airdropped for free to the board.

Toknormal has not refuted one shred of the scam evidence and has produced 4 terrible excuses and counter arguments that only serve to illustrate how unrealistic you can become when you have a couple of masternodes.

1. it is wrong to call a scam a scam because you are scamming those who could have benefitted more from the scam.
2. it was not a scam it was an accident and then another accident after to multiply the effect of the first accident.
3 you can make good gains from being involved with scams...
4 lying now that it was cheaper to buy it on the market than devs got it for by mining with no competition for a few hours.

Yeah show me when millions of dash were cheaper to buy than rent some amazon instances for a few hours.




Evans is a scammer with a plan. The rest are just tag along scammers with one plan to tag on to evans. I mean tok can't even generate a feasible excuse without making it worse for dash. Same for qwizze and tao well imagine him on your team the guy blew the whistle on dash scam at the start ....i can see why they turn to scams they simply can not compete on an even playing field. If i were evans id give them all a few masternodes extra to remain silent.

Anyway if it is a non issue then just mention dash here or on any exchange troll box or even just typed dash into google.
Dash is synonymous with scam and instamine. It is the first thing people bring up. It is an issue it will remain an issue.

Its not like nobody knows it happened.

[bettercrypto]

Instamine or not does not concern me, as long as there are development and progress with the community, technology and economy of the coin, it will be good enough for me.  You may find it absurd but what would I do with a fair launched coin that does not offer anything at all?

[canth]

The stench of the instamine just never leaves does it? I'd rather hold fiat than Dash...

[arielbit]

the more DASH shills cover it with bullshit upon bullshit just makes it more stinkier...

non issue...old issue...the only issue I am seeing here is DASH shills not getting their story straight.

[dinofelis]

Partial Instamine is a non-issue.

1. Bill Gates pre-mined Microsoft stocks.
2. Mark Zuckerberg pre-mined Facebook stocks.

==>  There is a fundamental difference between stock and coins.  Stock are IOU of the company you owned.  coins are not an IOU.  

The fundamental problems with the DASH instamine are twofold.  I fully agree that your idea of a locked-in PREMINE to pay the devs, which is publicly known and announced, is a good idea.  It should be in the genesis block.

I'm not calling the instamine a scam.   But it is an *issue*.  It is not a scam because we know it now.  However, in any credible monetary system, nobody is supposed to own more than at most a few percent of the total stash.  When the ownership of stash goes to the 10-20%, that monetary system is entirely in the hands of this stash owner, and hence open to all kinds of cornering, market manipulation etc...  The instamine made that the devs (and their dog) owned essentially >95% of the stash at a certain point.

On top of that, DASH has a partial PoS scheme, allowing the initial RATIO of stash ownership to be partially preserved.  For instance, in a FULL PoS system, if you initially own 20% of the stash, you will (unless you spend them) always own 20% of the stash, even if the amount of emitted coins goes 100-fold.  Given that PoS of DASH is only partial (45% + 10% of the gouvernance tax) this will lead to the initial >95% stash ownership to diminish to about 50% or as of today.

And on top of that, DASH has an anonymity scheme that depends on having very many non-colluding masternode owners, which are also a PoS scheme.  If a single entity possesses 20% or 50% of all "non-colluding" mixers then that is a fundamental security issue.

This is why the sneaky instamine IS an issue, at least on paper.  In reality, as most of crypto is just a greater-fool game, not to be used much in reality, nobody really cares, and it was actually a good idea: at least, someone's going to get rich on the back of a lot of greater fools.

[dinofelis]

Evans is a scammer with a plan. The rest are just tag along scammers with one plan to tag on to evans.

This is true.  But it is also true that this is now public knowledge, for anyone a slight bit interested in finding out about it.  When a scam is public knowledge, people getting into it, are not "scammed" any more, simply because the knowledge is public (on top of that, in crypto, scam doesn't really exist, because crypto is trustless, and scam is "breaking of trust", something that cannot happen in a trustless environment).

So essentially, people buying DASH now are not scammed.  They simply hope, like 99% of crypto actors, to get on the train of a good, knowledgeable "scammer", in order to scam future greater fools somewhat more.  As that is the essence of crypto these days, the DASH instamine is indeed, not an issue.  DASH, just like most crypto, is just a vehicle to expose yourself as a fool, and to hunt for greater fools.  In that respect, Evans did a great job, and is hence one of the better masters of crypto.
(true, some small minority actually USES crypto, but that's a dying minority of no further importance...).

[tokeweed]

Partial Instamine is a non-issue.

1. Bill Gates pre-mined Microsoft stocks.
2. Mark Zuckerberg pre-mined Facebook stocks.
3. Vitalik pre-mined Ethereum.
4. Crypto-coins are both digital gold and a stock.

I believe that creators need to have financial incentives to make their projects a success.

EDIT: Here a guy that wrote an article that Bitcoin is not a digital gold, but more like a company stock. Good read !
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/65ks6p/critical_misunderstanding_bitcoindigital_gold/

EDIT2: Even better would be, for the investors, is if creator pre-mines his coins, but uses a 5-year TIME LOCK transaction, so he can't dump it on the market. This will provide a long-term motivation to improve his creation. Pump-and-Dump out; Innovation in !

-Technologov

For you maybe.  The instamine would be 'OK' only if Mr. Duffield informed everyone that he would do so.  But he didn't.  He broke a social contract with the community and that's a bad and dishonest thing to do.  But whatever, DASH is riding sky high and that's what matters for everybody interested in it right? 

[qwizzie]

https://themerkle.com/instamine-vs-premine/

For those that are still trying to grasp the meaning of the term instamine
versus the term premine.

[dinofelis]

The instamine would be 'OK' only if Mr. Duffield informed everyone that he would do so.  But he didn't.  He broke a social contract with the community and that's a bad and dishonest thing to do.

On the other hand, that's what "trustlessness" is all about, no ?

[qwizzie]

Partial Instamine is a non-issue.

1. Bill Gates pre-mined Microsoft stocks.
2. Mark Zuckerberg pre-mined Facebook stocks.
3. Vitalik pre-mined Ethereum.
4. Crypto-coins are both digital gold and a stock.

I believe that creators need to have financial incentives to make their projects a success.

EDIT: Here a guy that wrote an article that Bitcoin is not a digital gold, but more like a company stock. Good read !
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/65ks6p/critical_misunderstanding_bitcoindigital_gold/

EDIT2: Even better would be, for the investors, is if creator pre-mines his coins, but uses a 5-year TIME LOCK transaction, so he can't dump it on the market. This will provide a long-term motivation to improve his creation. Pump-and-Dump out; Innovation in !

-Technologov

For you maybe.  The instamine would be 'OK' only if Mr. Duffield informed everyone that he would do so.  But he didn't.  He broke a social contract with the community and that's a bad and dishonest thing to do.  But whatever, DASH is riding sky high and that's what matters for everybody interested in it right?  

Actually Mr. Duffield suggested an airdrop but the Dash community found that a bad idea and it was decided that the best way was to just move forward.
Specially as such a large portion of the instamine got mass-sold on exchanges right after the instamine happened.

Which means he did not break any social contract.

[nemgun]

Partial Instamine is a non-issue.

1. Bill Gates pre-mined Microsoft stocks.
2. Mark Zuckerberg pre-mined Facebook stocks.
3. Vitalik pre-mined Ethereum.
4. Crypto-coins are both digital gold and a stock.

I believe that creators need to have financial incentives to make their projects a success.

EDIT: Here a guy that wrote an article that Bitcoin is not a digital gold, but more like a company stock. Good read !
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/65ks6p/critical_misunderstanding_bitcoindigital_gold/

EDIT2: Even better would be, for the investors, is if creator pre-mines his coins, but uses a 5-year TIME LOCK transaction, so he can't dump it on the market. This will provide a long-term motivation to improve his creation. Pump-and-Dump out; Innovation in !

-Technologov

For you maybe.  The instamine would be 'OK' only if Mr. Duffield informed everyone that he would do so.  But he didn't.  He broke a social contract with the community and that's a bad and dishonest thing to do.  But whatever, DASH is riding sky high and that's what matters for everybody interested in it right? 

Actually Mr. Duffield suggested an airdrop but the Dash community found that a bad idea and it was decided that the best way was to just move forward.
Specially as such a large portion of the instamine got mass-sold on exchanges right after the instamine happened.

Which means he did not broke any social contract.
 

 

Could you please give more details about the instamined coins ? Where are they ? and is it possible to track them ?

If they were mass sold on exchanges, it could mean that dash's creator wanted either to create a development fund for DASH, or just fill his pockets. Maybe both, but i think that it would be better if we have more informations about it.

And please, ignore the trolls, i know that many of them doesn't even know what is a premine or an instamine.

[qwizzie]

Partial Instamine is a non-issue.

1. Bill Gates pre-mined Microsoft stocks.
2. Mark Zuckerberg pre-mined Facebook stocks.
3. Vitalik pre-mined Ethereum.
4. Crypto-coins are both digital gold and a stock.

I believe that creators need to have financial incentives to make their projects a success.

EDIT: Here a guy that wrote an article that Bitcoin is not a digital gold, but more like a company stock. Good read !
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/65ks6p/critical_misunderstanding_bitcoindigital_gold/

EDIT2: Even better would be, for the investors, is if creator pre-mines his coins, but uses a 5-year TIME LOCK transaction, so he can't dump it on the market. This will provide a long-term motivation to improve his creation. Pump-and-Dump out; Innovation in !

-Technologov

For you maybe.  The instamine would be 'OK' only if Mr. Duffield informed everyone that he would do so.  But he didn't.  He broke a social contract with the community and that's a bad and dishonest thing to do.  But whatever, DASH is riding sky high and that's what matters for everybody interested in it right?  

Actually Mr. Duffield suggested an airdrop but the Dash community found that a bad idea and it was decided that the best way was to just move forward.
Specially as such a large portion of the instamine got mass-sold on exchanges right after the instamine happened.

Which means he did not broke any social contract.
 

 

Could you please give more details about the instamined coins ? Where are they ? and is it possible to track them ?

If they were mass sold on exchanges, it could mean that dash's creator wanted either to create a development fund for DASH, or just fill his pockets. Maybe both, but i think that it would be better if we have more informations about it.

And please, ignore the trolls, i know that many of them doesn't even know what is a premine or an instamine.

InternetApe & Vertoe (early Dash dev team members) both already sold their Dash.
Evan Duffield has pledged to hold 80% of his personal wealth for internal DAO's / community projects.

link :   https://www.dashforcenews.com/ryan-taylor-new-dash-core-ceo-founder-evan-duffield-moves-advisory-role/

No founding member now has any direct control over Dash’s development

This move completes a shift away from direct control over Dash’s development by any founding member. During the Dash Core offices open house in Scottsdale last month, Duffield announced that he had deactivated all his masternodes, meaning that he no longer has a direct vote in how Dash’s treasury is spent. He also pledged 80% of his personal wealth to community projects, on which he intends to focus his attention as Dash as a whole grows to reach as many people as possible.

The net result of this reorganization is that, while sole remaining founding member Duffield still plans on remaining active in Dash’s growth, and is incentivized to see it continue to succeed, no founder now controls Dash directly in any way. This move to further decentralize the currency also displays great faith in Dash’s future, Core team, and community.

[canth]

Partial Instamine is a non-issue.

1. Bill Gates pre-mined Microsoft stocks.
2. Mark Zuckerberg pre-mined Facebook stocks.
3. Vitalik pre-mined Ethereum.
4. Crypto-coins are both digital gold and a stock.

I believe that creators need to have financial incentives to make their projects a success.

EDIT: Here a guy that wrote an article that Bitcoin is not a digital gold, but more like a company stock. Good read !
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/65ks6p/critical_misunderstanding_bitcoindigital_gold/

EDIT2: Even better would be, for the investors, is if creator pre-mines his coins, but uses a 5-year TIME LOCK transaction, so he can't dump it on the market. This will provide a long-term motivation to improve his creation. Pump-and-Dump out; Innovation in !

-Technologov

For you maybe.  The instamine would be 'OK' only if Mr. Duffield informed everyone that he would do so.  But he didn't.  He broke a social contract with the community and that's a bad and dishonest thing to do.  But whatever, DASH is riding sky high and that's what matters for everybody interested in it right?  

Actually Mr. Duffield suggested an airdrop but the Dash community found that a bad idea and it was decided that the best way was to just move forward.
Specially as such a large portion of the instamine got mass-sold on exchanges right after the instamine happened.

Which means he did not break any social contract.

Heh, the community meaning those few who participated in the first hours which distributed 1m+ coins? They didn't want to roll back? No shit. Glad they've made lots of money but this will always hold Dash back from being a top coin, current price aside.

I hope you don't find these insta-mine threads or questions asked by reporters annoying, because I don't expect they'll go away, ever.

[DrkLvr_]

Evan is a greedy lying instaminer