biggest profit for miner devs not miners

[nerdralph]

Here's something to add to the speculation over Claymore's income:
https://etherscan.io/address/0x726653b871b5a3010441e0dec37e08afceb2fb05

It looks like he's getting about $10K/day, which is about 0.7% of all ETH mining rewards (about $1.5 million per day).

[philipma1957]

Here's something to add to the speculation over Claymore's income:
https://etherscan.io/address/0x726653b871b5a3010441e0dec37e08afceb2fb05

It looks like he's getting about $10K/day, which is about 0.7% of all ETH mining rewards (about $1.5 million per day).

yeah old news  and he truly has scored a fortune.

I have told him time and time again  drop fees

he could do 1 and .5  he does  2.5 and 2.0

I don't mine with his software that much.

[RentGPU]

Here's something to add to the speculation over Claymore's income:
https://etherscan.io/address/0x726653b871b5a3010441e0dec37e08afceb2fb05

It looks like he's getting about $10K/day, which is about 0.7% of all ETH mining rewards (about $1.5 million per day).

Claymore charge 2% fee, so 0.7% per day means more than half of etherum miners are not using claymore's miner, don't get pissed off, because when you use his miner you agree to pay this fee , so he is not stealing anything he earned it.

[philipma1957]

Here's something to add to the speculation over Claymore's income:
https://etherscan.io/address/0x726653b871b5a3010441e0dec37e08afceb2fb05

It looks like he's getting about $10K/day, which is about 0.7% of all ETH mining rewards (about $1.5 million per day).

Claymore charge 2% fee, so 0.7% per day means more than half of etherum miners are not using claymore's miner, don't get pissed off, because when you use his miner you agree to pay this fee , so he is not stealing anything he earned it.

he charges 2.5 or 2.0 and lets you go fee free with a slower version.

you need ssl  to get 2.0 % fee rate some pools don't support it.

He also sticks it to you if you dual mine 2x fees so you are better off using his  no fee option and mine slower

I don't hate him and Have made money with his software.

but his xmr, zec and eth  should all drop to 1% flat with a .5% ssl option.

my reasoning is if he does it sooner then later it makes him a hero over a bum.

But it is hard to leave money on the table so he takes what people will pay .

[Marvell1]

Here's something to add to the speculation over Claymore's income:
https://etherscan.io/address/0x726653b871b5a3010441e0dec37e08afceb2fb05

It looks like he's getting about $10K/day, which is about 0.7% of all ETH mining rewards (about $1.5 million per day).

Claymore charge 2% fee, so 0.7% per day means more than half of etherum miners are not using claymore's miner, don't get pissed off, because when you use his miner you agree to pay this fee , so he is not stealing anything he earned it.

the problem is there is no good competion , other devs rather do private kerneals and probaly charge a fortune to large farms for a no fee version , etc , at least claymore lets the average miner use his software unlike wolf and other devs
the whole dev ecosystem for altcoins is a clusterfuck of greed and disfunction.

Even if you use EBF zec miner or another one you will always pay a fee.  Back in the day you could use cgminer for everything and devs all opened sourced everything greed has taken over etc its capitalism i guess.   

[adaseb]

What really surprises me is that there is probably a dozen or so miner devs that can make similar software and charge 0.5% less and take a huge portion of his revenue; however many choose not too.

[FFI2013]

Here's something to add to the speculation over Claymore's income:
https://etherscan.io/address/0x726653b871b5a3010441e0dec37e08afceb2fb05

It looks like he's getting about $10K/day, which is about 0.7% of all ETH mining rewards (about $1.5 million per day).

Claymore charge 2% fee, so 0.7% per day means more than half of etherum miners are not using claymore's miner, don't get pissed off, because when you use his miner you agree to pay this fee , so he is not stealing anything he earned it.

the problem is there is no good competion , other devs rather do private kerneals and probaly charge a fortune to large farms for a no fee version , etc , at least claymore lets the average miner use his software unlike wolf and other devs
the whole dev ecosystem for altcoins is a clusterfuck of greed and disfunction.

Even if you use EBF zec miner or another one you will always pay a fee.  Back in the day you could use cgminer for everything and devs all opened sourced everything greed has taken over etc its capitalism i guess.   

not true zawawa is making great progress but no one wants to help contribute or donate claymore been watching his progress and have been taking his ideas such as asm and using it but when your making what claymore does you can hire a team of coders so if ppl want to stick to claymore help out with the open source

[Elder III]

Claymore makes the best miners, so I have no problem with the fee.

[coke]

You have several options.

* Pay the dev fee and use it at 100%
* Use a miner without devfee
* Use the commandline switch to disable the devfee and lose some % optimization
* Use a little transparent proxy to change the devfee destination to your own addresses.

I'll probably get a shitstorm for this, but I use option 4.
2% (or more) is just overkill. One-time fee, sure, but a constant 2%?! Hell no.

cK'

[philipma1957]

You have several options.

* Pay the dev fee and use it at 100%
* Use a miner without devfee
* Use the commandline switch to disable the devfee and lose some % optimization
* Use a little transparent proxy to change the devfee destination to your own addresses.

I'll probably get a shitstorm for this, but I use option 4.
2% (or more) is just overkill. One-time fee, sure, but a constant 2%?! Hell no.

cK'

Don't blame you in the least,but maybe that why he thinks 2.5% or 2% is okay.

To me  when zec came out and he made  many versions all a little better  I could stomach the high fee.  Now that he does not make a new one every 10 days or so and the software has peaked.  the 2.5/2.0% is too high.

Hey I have my angles  I fast sell cards  only 25-45 days old  at an okay discount.   this allows me say 10% profit per card.

Does not sound like much  but 5 to 7 times in a year  and one card nets 70% profit.

[jwarren81]

Its the free market at its best.  If you think you can do better and charge less, then do it.  Don't want to pay the fee?  Don't think its worth it?  Use a different one.  The decision is with you and you alone.  Why get butt hurt about someone else being super successfully?  I applaud him for his work and skills to produce something so valuable and successful in the market that thousands of people use it.  I'm envious sure but also inspired by what he has done and I'm constantly looking for my own angle to do what he's done, in my own way.

Its silly to think that any of us have any business telling him how much he should charge.  Competition is the best and only way to reduce cost, simple as that.  You are not entitled to his work just because he makes more than you do or was more successful.  There are plenty of alternatives that do not charge a fee.  Anyone circumventing the fee and still using the software is not a moral person.  Plain and simple.

[newmz]

You have several options.

* Pay the dev fee and use it at 100%
* Use a miner without devfee
* Use the commandline switch to disable the devfee and lose some % optimization
* Use a little transparent proxy to change the devfee destination to your own addresses.

I'll probably get a shitstorm for this, but I use option 4.
2% (or more) is just overkill. One-time fee, sure, but a constant 2%?! Hell no.

cK'

Don't blame you in the least,but maybe that why he thinks 2.5% or 2% is okay.

To me  when zec came out and he made  many versions all a little better  I could stomach the high fee.  Now that he does not make a new one every 10 days or so and the software has peaked.  the 2.5/2.0% is too high.

Hey I have my angles  I fast sell cards  only 25-45 days old  at an okay discount.   this allows me say 10% profit per card.

Does not sound like much  but 5 to 7 times in a year  and one card nets 70% profit.

Hey this last part made me curious, if you don't mind telling me - why do you "fast sell" cards? Do you mean to say you buy a brand new GPU, mine it for 1 or 2 months then sell it used? Why? Some of the cards in my rigs are over a year old and have been mining 24/7 and some of them were used when I got them. Do you think it's worth all the buying and selling just to always have brand new cards? I just wondered what is the benefit you see in doing that? Do you gradually upgrade over time, in terms of what cards you are buying and re-selling? I'm also wondering who buys them? If I saw an ad for a used card that was 2 months old I would wonder what was wrong with the card. Are you doing this because you are dual mining with Claymore so you know you are frying the cards? I never dual mine because I can see how much it over-uses the GPUs resources - but I guess if you are dual mining with a new card every two months it isn't so dangerous, but I pity the people who buy your cards and find out that they will probably die within a year from the stress dual mining put them under.

I have sold some cards when they are no longer viable - like I sold a bunch of 280Xs because they used so much power (before anyone knew they could mine zec really well) - but I always find it such a pain in the butt to go on Ebay, wait for 10 days, etc. I think My cards have done ROI many times over because I was also lucky enough to trade a lot of the coins I've mined into Dash because Dash is so obviously the best one out there - and it's price is starting to reflect it's potential.... but I digress.

If you are using Claymore for Eth mining you can always invest the time to learn how to use sgminer-gm (at least for AMD cards) and you will get same or better hash-rate, lower power consumption (with the right tweaking) and no fee.

I don't think the fees are outrageous when the people who charge them provide the best miner (like if you want to mine ZEC/ZCL with Nvidia GPUs EWBF is probably best). I do agree though that if they stop innovating and providing extra value it becomes a bit much to keep demanding 2% or more. One reason I have used Claymore in the past is it's simplicity - it's very easy to use compared to some other miners. I have found sgminer-gm really great but pretty confusing.

* Use a little transparent proxy to change the devfee destination to your own addresses.

I don't understand this at all but if you have the skills to use the software withgout paying I have no problem with that - Claymore is already making way more than is really reasonable from people who don't have those skills.

[jwarren81]

Its this kind of thinking that is outright wrong.  You are not entitled to someone else's work!  Even if you have the skills to circumvent their pay scheme.  It is just plain wrong and immoral.  Do you think people are entitled to a carpenters work? A plumbers?  Most people don't have those skills either?  This type of mind set is whats going wrong in the world.  The amount of money someone is making has NOTHING to do with you.  You have the freedom to NOT use his product.  You do NOT have the right to use his product without compensating him in the way he requires for his work.  No matter how much he wants to charge.  If you don't think the product is worth the 2% fee then don't use it.  There are many alternatives as people have pointed out.  Its ridiculous for people to justify their wrong doing with "well he makes enough so I can steal his shit".

I don't understand this at all but if you have the skills to use the software without paying I have no problem with that - Claymore is already making way more than is really reasonable from people who don't have those skills.

[nerdralph]

What really surprises me is that there is probably a dozen or so miner devs that can make similar software and charge 0.5% less and take a huge portion of his revenue; however many choose not too.

A year ago the ethereum foundation was saying we'd have PoS now.  I'm pretty sure Claymore lives in Russia or one of the former Soviet states, where even the prospect of earning $200/day was enticing.
With the recent jump in price, and the prospect of PoW continuing for another year (even with a lower mining reward), there's certainly more incentive for people like me to dedicate more time to developing a competitive closed-source miner.  However I don't think it will be enough to match Claymore's mining performance and just charge 0.5% since he can easily match it.  My intention is to write a slightly faster (~1%) eth-only kernel that uses 5-10% less power, and probably charge a 0.5% dev fee for the public version, and also do a fixed-fee private version.

[nerdralph]

Look back in history...

It was the outfitters that made the most money during the gold rush, not the miners. 

Yes, but to be a good outfitter, it helps to know how to mine.  So I'm going to keep mining with a few rigs not because I expect to make a lot of money mining, but for testing.

[arielbit]

the money is out there...go miner devs! competition is healthy.

it is some what feels good running claymore, optiminer and ewbf on my different rigs..the more the better.

[coke]

Its this kind of thinking that is outright wrong.  You are not entitled to someone else's work!  Even if you have the skills to circumvent their pay scheme.  It is just plain wrong and immoral.  Do you think people are entitled to a carpenters work? A plumbers?  Most people don't have those skills either?  This type of mind set is whats going wrong in the world.  The amount of money someone is making has NOTHING to do with you.  You have the freedom to NOT use his product.  You do NOT have the right to use his product without compensating him in the way he requires for his work.  No matter how much he wants to charge.  If you don't think the product is worth the 2% fee then don't use it.  There are many alternatives as people have pointed out.  Its ridiculous for people to justify their wrong doing with "well he makes enough so I can steal his shit".

I don't understand this at all but if you have the skills to use the software without paying I have no problem with that - Claymore is already making way more than is really reasonable from people who don't have those skills.

Oh get off your high horse. I do what I want, when I want and how I want. If you want to talk morals, Claymore took OPEN SOURCE miners, tweaked them a little and released them as closed-source. Depending on the licenses of the original works it might not even be legal for him to release it without the source and without containing any copyright notices of the original works he made a derivate of. Where's your outrage there?

cK'

[newmz]

Its this kind of thinking that is outright wrong.  You are not entitled to someone else's work!  Even if you have the skills to circumvent their pay scheme.  It is just plain wrong and immoral.  Do you think people are entitled to a carpenters work? A plumbers?  Most people don't have those skills either?  This type of mind set is whats going wrong in the world.  The amount of money someone is making has NOTHING to do with you.  You have the freedom to NOT use his product.  You do NOT have the right to use his product without compensating him in the way he requires for his work.  No matter how much he wants to charge.  If you don't think the product is worth the 2% fee then don't use it.  There are many alternatives as people have pointed out.  Its ridiculous for people to justify their wrong doing with "well he makes enough so I can steal his shit".

I don't understand this at all but if you have the skills to use the software without paying I have no problem with that - Claymore is already making way more than is really reasonable from people who don't have those skills.

Your analogies are pretty sketchy. Of course if I need a plumber's or carpenter's particular skills to get something done or fixed I would pay. And I use miners with fees on them and DON'T circumvent their fee payment mechanism. I just meant that if you a smart enough to know a way to get something for free that other people have to pay for then more power to you. That is called a competitive advantage. It appears in evolution all the time.

You could even say it's somewhat like what Claymore is doing - he doesn't actually do any mining, he gets other people to do the mining and takes a small percentage. He was smart enough to get something for free (hash power) that other people have to pay for.

Software just isn't the same thing as the traditiional notions of "goods and services" because if you are smart enough you can change it to suit your own usage scenario. Using your analogy I would have to be able to call a plumber and somehow brainwash him/her into doing work for me for free. Maybe if I was charismatic or intimidating or I could hypnotise people that would be possible - but it isn't.

If Claymore were smart enough (or it made enough difference to him to be worth it) maybe he could write his miner in a way which would stop people from being able to circumvent his fees, but then someone would always find a way around it. That's just the world we live in. People who don't know enough have to pay and people who do know enough do it their way - to suit themselves. Information wants to be free.

[jwarren81]

And?  Again, are they inherently bad because they made more money?  If the miners chose to be there, then I don't see the issue?  No one is forcing anyone to use Claymore's product, yet thousands choose to because they accept the fee as being worth the price.  The market decides what is reasonable and fair.  If people truly thought the fee was too high, they wouldn't use it and he may be forced to reduce it to compete.

Look back in history...

It was the outfitters that made the most money during the gold rush, not the miners. 

[doktor83]

Old story.
It's a little too late for a 'new' eth kernel, but that's my opinion.