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Author Topic: Taxation [discussion]  (Read 3971 times)
Walter Rothbard
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April 27, 2013, 04:10:26 AM
 #81

We would end up in an automated system, that would end all of tax fraud

Why would you want to end tax fraud?  Tax fraud is the moral equivalent of Rosa Parks sitting in the "whites only" section of the bus, defying the law.  We should not try to help those who oppress our neighbors.

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April 27, 2013, 04:11:10 AM
 #82

What if we as Bitcoin community would offer a deal?
We could try to create a fair taxation model and integrate this into the Bitcoin system?

Bitcoin already has a fair taxation model:
You keep your money and contribute only to causes you believe in.

That's the only fair taxation model in the world.
But that's not a taxa... oh. Wink

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Walter Rothbard
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April 27, 2013, 04:12:43 AM
 #83

E.g. I want a country to have schools, because I don't want to live in a world where everybody is stupid.

Why should everybody else have to give you what you want?  People should work for what they want.

If I want a world without drugs and gambling, does that give me the right to engage in the criminal, immoral act of prohibiting drug use and gambling?

We are not toddlers and are old enough to understand that merely wanting something does not obligate the world to give it to us.

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April 27, 2013, 04:35:03 AM
 #84

We are not toddlers and are old enough to understand that merely wanting something does not obligate the world to give it to us.
Well, maybe not all. A moderately famous author tweeted to me once "I want free healthcare, and I'm going to bitch 'til I get it!"

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Birdy (OP)
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April 27, 2013, 05:42:49 AM
 #85

I think you get me wrong on one term, it's not that I clinge to the current system with it's tax. (It just happens to be the system that is established since a long time, so improving this is the most simple way)

If you are able to create a system that
- is able to provide proper education for everyone
- keeps up all necessary infrastructure
- doesn't cast aside people just because they are old, born in the wrong family etc.
- is able to fight crime
- is able to provide proper healthcare
- can work environmentally sustainable
...just to name a few

Then great, go ahead!
A lot of the current states are not doing the best job, I can agree.
But as far as I can see there was never a single successful state using your ideals before. The internet (and also Bitcoin) gives new possibilties, but you will have to proof your concepts, if you ever want to win people's trust to your ideas.

Discrediting and blaming the current system is easy, doing it better is very very difficult.
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April 27, 2013, 05:51:44 AM
 #86

Discrediting and blaming the current system is easy, doing it better is very very difficult.

Agreed. How long does a nation need to survive before you consider it "successful?"

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April 27, 2013, 05:54:23 AM
 #87

Then great, go ahead!
A lot of the current states are not doing the best job, I can agree.
But as far as I can see there was never a single successful state using your ideals before. The internet (and also Bitcoin) gives new possibilties, but you will have to proof your concepts, if you ever want to win people's trust to your ideas.

Discrediting and blaming the current system is easy, doing it better is very very difficult.

That's just it; we couldn't if we wanted to.  There's no place on this planet in which the state does not creep.  The only place I can think of currently is Somalia, but I predict, if they improve enough, and enough people leave to go live there, they'll get tossed around by some country's government or another and a state will be installed against people's will, until they tire themselves out and finally accept whichever country decides to take over.

That's why we need people to understand why the alternative is better.  To change the status quo, we need people.  No individual can begin a society.  Not a hundred people.  Not a thousand people.  It takes a large effort, and to uproot the state, you need a huge amount of people, a nation's worth, all on the same page, all educated to a point where the state is unnecessary.  As long as state proponents outweigh state opponents, there's not a lot of choice in the matter.  That's the point.  That's the state.  There's no choice in the matter.

Walter Rothbard
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April 27, 2013, 06:08:12 AM
 #88

But as far as I can see there was never a single successful state using your ideals before. The internet (and also Bitcoin) gives new possibilties, but you will have to proof your concepts, if you ever want to win people's trust to your ideas.

I don't care if you trust my ideas or not.  Neither one of us has the right to force the other to live by his ideas.

This is like saying Rosa Parks has to prove blacks are as good as whites before she can sit where she wants in the bus, and browbeating her for "blaming the current system."

Quote
Discrediting and blaming the current system is easy, doing it better is very very difficult.

Doesn't matter if the "current system" is credited or blamed; doesn't matter if any system is "better" or not.  What matters is consent.  I don't.

Walter Rothbard
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April 27, 2013, 06:10:02 AM
 #89

But as far as I can see there was never a single successful state using your ideals before.

Is it okay if I don't want gangs to succeed?

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