(LKK) LYKKE speculation

[kawacaki]

Lykke is to me one of the best investments these days. Their decentralised-centralised exchange system has enormous utility in the foreign exchange markets. Way more secure, time and cost effective for people and companies dealing with massive international transactions.

I can't believe that on google play, their app is only listed with 1000+ downloads.

There is a LOT of upside potential here, although the $0.05 USD buys might be history.

They are still under the radar, so a perfect time to get some coins..I bought at $0,04 but i believe in this coin to reach a minimum of $100 when its really starts getting adopted. Its just a great thing to have a decentralized exchange with zero commissions. 100% save

I don't see $100 happening. $1 is a more realistic price for now. I think that the only problem right now is marketing. This coin needs to get into more peoples hands. Once that happens, I can see this coin going up quite a bit in price

I agree on a 1 year term. $100 i think is possible in 4-5 years

still looks good to me, we scraping against $0,40 already. and volume is rising

[kawacaki]

Time to get some cheap lykke!! Be quick this aint gonna last

[playingpoodles]

Since two days ago Lykke's price per coin on coinmarket cap went down from 0.395 to 0.383 but its market cap went up from around 56 to 61 million. Has there been some distribution so more conis are in free float?

I rather think the time to buy "cheap" lykke was all the way from 0.05 to 0.15, not now at 0.383.

[kawacaki]

Since two days ago Lykke's price per coin on coinmarket cap went down from 0.395 to 0.383 but its market cap went up from around 56 to 61 million. Has there been some distribution so more conis are in free float?

I rather think the time to buy "cheap" lykke was all the way from 0.05 to 0.15, not now at 0.383.

you should look at the facts a little bit closer.
yesterday there was a rare dip in the price of lkk from $0,38 to $0,32. and now its backup to $0,38 again.
you could have made a easy 15% profit, so that was a cheap buy!

as for the other question, it was answered extensively already by @tempus in the announcement topic where you asked the exact same question.

I noticed Lykke's price on coinmarketcap over the past couple of days went down from 0.395 to around 0.383 and yet the marketcap rose from around 56 million to 61 million despite the lower price per coin.

Has there been an employee bonus distribution or something that has increased the circulation of the coin?

I don't believe circulating supply (which is what coinmarketcap uses) has increased. Though I'm not certain. If it has increased, it's increased minimally.

In any case, I wish coinmarketcap would use the total supply, and not the circulating supply, it's very misleading.

I think the best chart is brave-new-coin - much more precise (gives a lot of infos by moving over it with the mouse) and they display the total:

https://bravenewcoin.com/lykke#Trading-Pairs


Regarding the circulating supply: They move more into the trading wallets. Richard Olsen made a post about the supply and how it's handled, also about the value on reddit:


"Thank you for all the comments about the valuation of Lykke.

Coinmarketcap computes the market capitalization of Lykke based on the coins that are held in the trading wallets and does not include the coins held in other wallets. When Lykke was founded and started the first rounds of fund raising, the coins were issued to other wallets, because the trading wallet was not yet developed. In June we will move all the Lykke coins to the trading wallet. If the price of LKK does not change and remains at 0.374716 USD the total market capitalisation will jump to 481,772,471 USD.

Every buyer of LKK needs to be aware that the Lykke project is high risk – we are reinventing finance and build an emergent organization that is inspired by the principles employed by nature and where all the software and knowledge is open source. We will make mistakes and these mistakes can be costly, so there is risk and any investor should only buy LKK, if he can afford to lose his money.

What is the appropriate valuation of LKK?
LKK is not just a normal crypto currency that can be used to make payments. LKK is also a share participation in Lykke Corp and entitles to dividend payments, when Lykke earns a profit. 1 LKK represents a share participation of 0.0000000778% of Lykke Corp to be exact.
Lykke is more than a regular stock exchange, because we will be one of the liquidity providers on the exchange and will ourselves offer investment products for our users to invest. In addition, we have our accelerator business, where we help incumbents to retool their business and move to blockchain. We are acquiring the regulatory approvals to turn the Lykke marketplace into an industry strength organisation that institutions can use. There is a lot of upside for the Lykke business model. An increase of the LKK price is positive for us, because it makes it easier to fund our expansion plan and attract top talent.

Lykke does not have any shareholder agreements, etc. preventing investors to sell their LKK. This strategy is in line with my approach to build a fragile company – my reasoning is as follows: If investors can at any time sell their coins, then selloffs will be spread out over time and are helpful warning signals for the company. We have seen a few early investors selling, which has slowed the upmove of LKK but was easily absorbed by other investors. We are observing a rapid increase of daily liquidity in LKK (yesterday 1 Mio USD). This is a healthy development that will cushion strong sell offs."
https://www.reddit.com/r/lykke/comments/6fvxqc/50m_market_cap/dipmw4u/

 

[kawacaki]

https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/exchange/ethereum-now-available-lykke-cryptocurrency-exchange/

Recent article in finance magnates about ethereum integration in the lykke exchange

[playingpoodles]

He was right, the price "didn't last", but it didn't quite move in the direction he was intending - having a more downpointing tilt than the straight line up promised. Lykke was cheap at 6 cents. At 41 cents, it was substantially overvalued at some $600 million plus in marketcap. To give you perspective Coinbase was talking about raising a funding round that valued itself at $1 billion http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/02/bitcoin-start-up-coinbase-aims-for-1-billion-valuation.html

Coinbase in conjunction with its exchange GDAX has regulatory approval all over the place, including UK, Canada, most of EU Europe, and most or all US states (probably most not all). It has insurance for both crypto, and for US folks FDIC insurance of USD deposits.

Lykke on the other hand according to its annual report has "a Vanuatu brokerage license".  https://www.lykke.com/Annual_Report_2016.pdf (see page 3 and from page 19)

It is "applying" for lots of licenses, with keys being the US and UK. Applying for a license and having one is a very different thing. Lykke really has no licenses at this point, although they'll likely get some as time goes on, and anyway they appear to be allowing transactions without a license certainly with cryptocurrency, which they can probably get away with since everyone else is doing that. Not having any US license is a massive thing, and I'm not sure with a Swiss firm in competition with US incumbent Coinbase how enthusiastically and quickly US authorities will be in granting them licenses.

Lykke's userbase according to its recent annual report is 11,442 users as of 1 June 2017. https://www.lykke.com/Annual_Report_2016.pdf  (Page 5).

I couldn't get exact stats out there on Coinbase, but it seems like it's got anywhere from 6 to 10 million users.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-user-base-surges-coinbase-adds-1-mln-users-in-1-month
http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/03/01/bitcoin-exchange-coinbase-surpasses-6-million-total-users/

Lykke is sitting currently at just under $480 million in total market cap (that is marketcap including coins held by founders and not in free float, which is something like 80 to 90 per cent of them).

My point is, how could Lykke possibly be worth half of Coinbase, that has 6 to 10 million users, worldwide regulatory approval, including the key US market through approval in US states when Lykke has less than 12,000 users and no real regulatory approval? (I'm not suggesting Vanuatu is not a "real" jurisdiction, I'm saying it's not an important one for the purposes of cryptocurrency markets).

My conclusion is it can't. That's why the price is off over 10% at 36.5 cents, but I think the price correction has only just begun. Segwit 2x will activate, and, when it does, Bitcoin will go up like crazy. No one will want to miss out on the action, they'll dump lots of things to free up liquidity to ride the "Bitcoin has finally scaled" wave up, they'll dump Ether, and they will certainly dump Lykke - especially early investors who are already sitting on lovely, acceptable 7x profits. I easily see a correction down to 25 to 30 cents in the next couple of months, which is probably closer to fair value anyway.

The big upside risks are (1) US regulatory approval and (2) substantial userbase growth. The big downside risks are (1) rejection or delay of US regulatory approval (2) Bitcoin scales and everyone dumps everything including Lykke to buy it.

Time to get some cheap lykke!! Be quick this aint gonna last

[playingpoodles]

I have warned people for two weeks now not to listen to those pushing irrational exuberance. I warned LKK was dropping. Now the altcoin route today is harder and faster than I anticipated, I easily see LKK 10-15 cents, wtih under 10 cents probably a safe place to get back in.

Time to get some cheap lykke!! Be quick this aint gonna last

[shangerlaa]

Lykke and Pillar Project coming out with a ICO is almost the same project. The guy making the Pillar Project work in Lykkes slack channel and wrote an article for them https://medium.com/@pullnews/the-story-of-the-lykke-coin-251b8179480c.  Someone complained about someone copying the Lykke project and Tempus was trolling the guy acting very strange so I decided to start researching. I would think his reaction is wow i need to tell Richard about this. This is the pillar project https://us.pillarproject.io/. Also the story of the pillar project just like the lykke project... https://theascent.biz/the-story-of-the-pillar-project-bc7a653c8931. There is another one called the mother ship same idea and the road map is formatted just like the lykke roap map. Not sure now if Lykke is for real or just rolling out ICOs with the same idea.


 

[Cart]

Lykke is really great. It is an interesting concept. The coin is actually shares of the company!

[tempus]

Lykke and Pillar Project coming out with a ICO is almost the same project. The guy making the Pillar Project work in Lykkes slack channel and wrote an article for them https://medium.com/@pullnews/the-story-of-the-lykke-coin-251b8179480c.  Someone complained about someone copying the Lykke project and Tempus was trolling the guy acting very strange so I decided to start researching. I would think his reaction is wow i need to tell Richard about this. This is the pillar project https://us.pillarproject.io/. Also the story of the pillar project just like the lykke project... https://theascent.biz/the-story-of-the-pillar-project-bc7a653c8931. There is another one called the mother ship same idea and the road map is formatted just like the lykke roap map. Not sure now if Lykke is for real or just rolling out ICOs with the same idea.

Pillar is not related to Lykke. There are also no relations between Lykke and Mothership.

People are free to build teams and to present their whitepapers and goals to potential Investors who have to come to own conclusions and to make their choice if to invest in a project or not. And it’s always a good choice to dig deep to find out if something may have quality and a chance or not. I personally don’t know anything about mothership so far and if it could be seen as similar to Lykke or even a competitor. What I know about Pillar - I have zero concerns that it could turn out as competitor.


About this:

"Someone complained about someone copying the Lykke project and Tempus was trolling the guy acting very strange so I decided to start researching."

I didn't defend Pillar in any way, but I disagreed with implications that David Siegel is a scammer or "stabbed Richard in the back". As far as I know: Nobody in Lykke is concerned about Pillar. The rest of the discussion on slack was pretty personal because I then was accused to work for Pillar or that I should leave Lykke to work for Pillar, being a scum and delusional and so on - so I just defended myself.

[mtnsaa]

Lykke and Pillar Project coming out with a ICO is almost the same project. The guy making the Pillar Project work in Lykkes slack channel and wrote an article for them https://medium.com/@pullnews/the-story-of-the-lykke-coin-251b8179480c.  Someone complained about someone copying the Lykke project and Tempus was trolling the guy acting very strange so I decided to start researching. I would think his reaction is wow i need to tell Richard about this. This is the pillar project https://us.pillarproject.io/. Also the story of the pillar project just like the lykke project... https://theascent.biz/the-story-of-the-pillar-project-bc7a653c8931. There is another one called the mother ship same idea and the road map is formatted just like the lykke roap map. Not sure now if Lykke is for real or just rolling out ICOs with the same idea.

Pillar is not related to Lykke. There are also no relations between Lykke and Mothership.

People are free to build teams and to present their whitepapers and goals to potential Investors who have to come to own conclusions and to make their choice if to invest in a project or not. And it’s always a good choice to dig deep to find out if something may have quality and a chance or not. I personally don’t know anything about mothership so far and if it could be seen as similar to Lykke or even a competitor. What I know about Pillar - I have zero concerns that it could turn out as competitor.


About this:

"Someone complained about someone copying the Lykke project and Tempus was trolling the guy acting very strange so I decided to start researching."

I didn't defend Pillar in any way, but I disagreed with implications that David Siegel is a scammer or "stabbed Richard in the back". As far as I know: Nobody in Lykke is concerned about Pillar. The rest of the discussion on slack was pretty personal because I then was accused to work for Pillar or that I should leave Lykke to work for Pillar, being a scum and delusional and so on - so I just defended myself.

Agreed with all this, the issue raised is understandable though as David Siegel is known for its work on Lykke University for example. So I would ask him about Lykke if I were about to invest in Pillar for example not the other way around.

There are many projects similar to Lykke that were started before too, like Waves or Bitshares who share similar characteristics. There's also new ones like Mothership and I'm sure there will be many upcoming ones as Blockchain keep evolving so I don't see the point in dwelling or speculating on that. I would go as far as saying Litecoin or Expanse are direct forks of Bitcoin and Expanse and I don't see any problem with that, the best one will win, and it's safe to assume there's room for more than one in every niche.

[aussiekangaroo]

how does lykke reward the shareholders?

[mtnsaa]

how does lykke reward the shareholders?

What do you mean? Shareholders own a percent of the company, they are entitled to dividends, voting rights and any asset the company owns now or in the future. This would include licenses, offices, equipment and so on. In that sense Lykke is one of the only projects that gives you actual equity, it's not a digital protocol or a piece of a platform (I compare tokens or coins to "software licenses"). This doesn't mean an Adobe or Microsoft software product can't have value but is very different compared to actual shares in Adobe or Microsoft companies.

[doomloop]

I have warned people for two weeks now not to listen to those pushing irrational exuberance. I warned LKK was dropping. Now the altcoin route today is harder and faster than I anticipated, I easily see LKK 10-15 cents, wtih under 10 cents probably a safe place to get back in.

Time to get some cheap lykke!! Be quick this aint gonna last

well you are right to some extent that lkk-10 was dropped down because of the market value was decreased a lot and the people got dishearten by the dump in the price .bitcoin is a chance for those people to get benefit and earn money as much they want.

[playingpoodles]

It wasn't just LKK-1yr that dropped, LKK has dropped from 41 cents to 25 cents. If people don't think there's more pain in store for the crypto markets in the lead up to Segwit 2x on 1 August fine, but I'd beg to disagree.

There's too much downside risk for everything on the market until Bitcoin scales. The only short-term "safe" places I see are Tether and to a lesser extent Bitcoin itself. (Bitcoin will likely drop over the next two weeks, but other coins will probably drop more so).

I see way too much downside risk for LKK over the short term, it's possible first week or two of August could be a time to get in, if it drops enough that it makes sense from a valuation perspective.

I have warned people for two weeks now not to listen to those pushing irrational exuberance. I warned LKK was dropping. Now the altcoin route today is harder and faster than I anticipated, I easily see LKK 10-15 cents, wtih under 10 cents probably a safe place to get back in.

Time to get some cheap lykke!! Be quick this aint gonna last

well you are right to some extent that lkk-10 was dropped down because of the market value was decreased a lot and the people got dishearten by the dump in the price .bitcoin is a chance for those people to get benefit and earn money as much they want.

[tempus]

@playingpoodles, you didn't get any grip on the official thread and reddit, so you try it here again? ;-)

I called it a good investment when you bought it at five cents. Why does that surprise you? Unlike you I don't have a wheelbarrow to push except transparency. If you cashed out now you'd have made 5 times your investment. Yes that's a good investment in my books. But no, I don't think it would be  a good investment for latecomers who buy high from early investors and face much more downside risk.

Finally someone admits Richard owns most LKK, after all the stonewalling. You don't think that confirms my suggestion that Richard stands to make most of the profit, or that it is a make him richer scheme? Okayyyyy...

Anyway, short term Richard can totally manipulate LKK price to stop it going down, thanks to an in-house "algorithm" which I noticed last night favoured price going up: in other words, the larger the LKK sale the fewer USD per LKK you got, but the bigger the USD purchase of LKK the more LKK you got per USD. No price transparency at all, very heavily manipulated, and I can't see a US regulators having a bar of it. I also think as we get to the sharp end of Segwit 2x activation there's a limit to how much funny business with the "algorithm" determining the LKK price will be able to stop people running for the doors.
 

What surprises me, or actually I'm not really surprised, is the inconsistency of your argumentation. On one side you come up with hard accusations. You talk about Lykke as a "scheme", you claim the market would be manipulated, Richard Olsen himself would intervene on the market, and so on. At the same time you speak about Lykke as good investment. And sure, I get your point because that is the only one that is consistent: The price. And that is the constant message you spread on two threads here and several topics on reddit and THAT shows consistency.

And one more time: I don't want to say that there shouldn't be different opinions about total value and price. It's the way you combine things and spread your message that is revealing.

Another thing is: If one wants to attack a project, that is always possible, especially if done with theories like you come up with.

- price goes down: that is about Lykke only underlined with the lie LKK would have went down before others did
- price goes up: Richard Olsen manipulates the market

Or supply and distribution: If founders and team-members wouldn't have so much skin in the game it would be easy to attack that, to come up with the claim they would only care about selling LKK to make money. If they hold a lot, and we are speaking about ownership here, you see a problem in that.


So let's not forget your priority: Cheaper price because after all your accusations you still consider Lykke as good investment. That intention is the only consistent reflection in the way you communicate.

The Little Poodle just tried to talk the price down by spreading nonsense FUD with his bulldog persistence so that he can buy at a cheaper price.

He is bitter that we (early investors) got in early at $0.05 and he is super jealous with us. No body is so free to talk about something that he is not concern with. Enough said.

[playingpoodles]

Will you stop demonising me for mentioning an inconvenient truth? It is not an outrageous thing to say in the lead up to Segwit 2x I think all altcoins including LKK will drop. I think Bitcoin will drop too but less.

Instead of entering into fair dialogue, you throw a bunch of personal insults at me, someone you've never met, for expressing an opinion. In response to the false and unfair allegation, I bought LKK at 0.06 and I thought it was good value at that price. Yes, but not buying now because I think it's overvalued - mainly because it has NO licenses besides "Vanuatu brokerage license", and when compared to competitors that DO have such licenses its present price at 26 cents makes no sense (TO ME).

It's unfair to demonise all dissent.

@playingpoodles, you didn't get any grip on the official thread and reddit, so you try it here again? ;-)

[tempus]

Will you stop demonising me for mentioning an inconvenient truth? It is not an outrageous thing to say in the lead up to Segwit 2x I think all altcoins including LKK will drop. I think Bitcoin will drop too but less.

Instead of entering into fair dialogue, you throw a bunch of personal insults at me, someone you've never met, for expressing an opinion. In response to your false and unfair allegation, I bought LKK at 6 cents and I thought it was good value at that price.

It's unfair to demonise all dissent.
 

I don't demonise you. I don't even take it personal. But of course I didn't appreciate your several attempts to talk the price down with claims like "LKK started selling off earlier and faster than the altcoin market as a whole", your accusations the market would be manipulated, even personal against Richard Olsen, and your price-talking on several threads on reddit.

It's really simple: You come up with things like that, I reply on it. Nothing personal, nothing special.

[enhu]

The price use to be just 0.02$, it rise up to $0.50 during the pump but its now dipping. If you were to buy, you might want to wait til we'll see it goes down below $0.15 because thats when investors who ride during the pump may hold for years.

[playingpoodles]

Yes, I tend to agree that in the leadup to Segwit 2x downside risk probably isn't fully priced, so below 15 cents would be a buying opportunity.

What I've said about Richard Olsen is Lykke is a "make Richard Olsen richer scheme". This is patently obvious given that he owns most LKK. It is not even a criticism of him, I think he's a genius. But I don't like this pretense that he's all a lovey-dovey, hug-the-tree, let's all be fair to each other, kindly Scandinavian uncle. If you didn't notice, he's a ruthlessly successful businessman - that's not a bad thing, but pretending to people that this man who owns most LKK is not in it for his own profit is a bad thing.

…even personal against Richard Olsen…

The price use to be just 0.02$, it rise up to $0.50 during the pump but its now dipping. If you were to buy, you might want to wait til we'll see it goes down below $0.15 because thats when investors who ride during the pump may hold for years.