A Federal judge in new York has not recognized bitcoin as money

[Pab]

There is not country in the world where btc is recognised like a money,but psst if bankers will read that thay will start launder money with btc,btc will jump to 100k $.Like a side effect we wil have crash on dollar

[Iranus]

If Bitcoin is not money, why do you accept payment for your posts in it?

Any commodity can be given from one person to another.  I could give you a block of gold and it would still have been transferred from one person to another, even if it's pretty inefficient.  Signature campaigns are more of an anonymity thing - people don't want to give credit card details or something to random online companies.  Bitcoin is ideal for the purpose, even though the fees are pretty high for those microtransactions. 

[CyberKuro]

When someone buy goods using bitcoin, it become another medium of exchange, everyone is free to consider bitcoin as what they want depends​ on its use for what purpose. Bitcoin price be measured with fiat but it just a figure of value, bitcoin-fiat-and gold are worth and could be used for buy something without need to state it as a money.

[BluePoppy]

A Federal judge in new York has recommended to cancel the charges of money laundering on local business based on the definition that Bitcoin does not fall under the definition of money. Instead, the judge Hugh B. Scott ruled that Bitcoin is more like a commodity. While he noted that Bitcoin might one day become so reasonable that it can be considered as money, Scott suggested that he currently has more in common with collectibles such as trading cards and other novelty items.
The case involved a 31-year-old man who allegedly sold Bitcoins for $13 000 to the agent in an attempt to launder money and distribute drugs. However, the interpretation of Scott was adopted by the district judge of the United States Charles Siragusa, who expressed skepticism about the possible consequences.
This is a controversial issue, so lawyers for the defendants said that they will try to withdraw the petition. In this situation, the protection refers to the scepticism of Siragusa as a defining factor in their current strategy. Lawyers of the defendant also stressed that their client is in no way connected with the so-called darknet market and just traded Bitcoins, like other trading "baseball cards, stamps or coins."

Glad to see people aren't getting wrongfully charged for ridiculous things like trading BTC. How is the drugs aspect related to BTC at all btw?

[Nagadota]

Japan already said that bitcoin is a legal currency, when will USA say that?

They basically have.  Treating Bitcoin like a commodity doesn't change the status of it from our perspective very much at all, except that in Japan you might be subject to annoying and arguably excessive regulations on exchanges.  The US has been surprising lenient towards Bitcoin users, and regardless of whether judges give legitimacy to it by treating it like a currency, we can still use it properly.  Not treating it like money might even benefit us since we don't have to mess around with taxes (except maybe VAT, we'll see how this plays out).

[deisik]

If Bitcoin is not money, why do you accept payment for your posts in it?

Any commodity can be given from one person to another.  I could give you a block of gold and it would still have been transferred from one person to another, even if it's pretty inefficient.  Signature campaigns are more of an anonymity thing - people don't want to give credit card details or something to random online companies.  Bitcoin is ideal for the purpose, even though the fees are pretty high for those microtransactions. 

Did you consult the dictionary or what?

I haven't heard from you so far. Anyway, this is the basic function of money, that of transferring value, and you should take into account that the value for the job done here is transferred remotely (i.e. not via hand-to-hand transactions, as is the case with gold you refer to). In other words, if people start moving "any commodity" in this way and for this purpose specifically, this commodity will effectively turn into money. As I always say in such and similar cases, money is what money does, and in this case precisely, Bitcoin is used as a payment for a large number of people, something which money is typically used for. To sum it up, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it is likely a duck itself

[Hydrogen]

New York politics are corrupt. Maybe one of the most corrupt states in america.

It took forever for them to legalize mixed martial arts.

They like to stall on new legislature and sabotage the legal process to milk issues for everything they're worth.

[digaran]

Indeed the true justice system in the US they have, a judge gets a boner and issues a blocking order(freezing)of $11B Iran's money! I know you might say Iran supporting terrorism and they all are terrorists and deserve what they get but as clearly as franky1 is a shill for Wu and Ver, we all know Iran is not supporting terrorism but even fighting it and is a victim. I mean who the hell did put the governments in charge of everything? yes we did.
Couldn't US loving the human rights so much provide proper channels to give dozens of billions dollars of frozen assets to the people in Iran? lifts the sanctions on merchants doing business with medical companies and buying food supplies to give them the chance the people?

I wanna know are the whole world completely insane or blind not to see if Iran wanted to destroy Israel they already have enough non nuclear fire power to do so and if they wanted to build 10 nukes and drop on american soil then US could drop thousands on Iranian soils?

So what is the real deal here?
Answer: they're all SOBs and MFers want to bully others simple and clear as BU is a menace.
Actually the whole world has turned to fuck and the only thing trying barely to unfuck it is unable to jump start, take off because they know what potentials bitcoin has and if they allow it to scale and grow big then they might lose their grip.

Pardon my french I'm just honest and very much pissed.

[pinkflower]

Another thing to discuss is its also good if the government or whoever starts accepting BTC as a currency. It would mean we could also pay our taxes with it. One of fiat's important function is to pay what we owe the government with it. Its one property that makes fiat valuable

It is highly unlikely that any major government will ever go that route

Since that would effectively mean creating competition for the local currency which these governments print. Why would they want that? By going that way, they will be shooting themselves in the foot. Though some minor governments (and especially those which are already using some foreign currency as a legal tender) may in fact accept Bitcoin as a legitimate payment for taxes provided its price stabilizes over long enough term (but no sooner than that)

Yeah that was the point. I was trying to show where fiat gets its value from, and thats because governments accept them as payment for your dues. To be defined as real currency, BTC has to be accepted by the government for tax payments.

[moviebuff777]

This makes sense because bitcoin is not an official currency. Also, gold is not considered a currency and neither is paypal.

[deisik]

Another thing to discuss is its also good if the government or whoever starts accepting BTC as a currency. It would mean we could also pay our taxes with it. One of fiat's important function is to pay what we owe the government with it. Its one property that makes fiat valuable

It is highly unlikely that any major government will ever go that route

Since that would effectively mean creating competition for the local currency which these governments print. Why would they want that? By going that way, they will be shooting themselves in the foot. Though some minor governments (and especially those which are already using some foreign currency as a legal tender) may in fact accept Bitcoin as a legitimate payment for taxes provided its price stabilizes over long enough term (but no sooner than that)

Yeah that was the point. I was trying to show where fiat gets its value from, and thats because governments accept them as payment for your dues. To be defined as real currency, BTC has to be accepted by the government for tax payments

In fact, this is a shaky argument

If not to say that it is a completely false one. There are over 100 fiat currencies in the world, and only a few are accepted as legal tender in more than one country. In general, one specific currency is accepted in only one country, namely, where this currency happens to be printed. So, according to your reasoning, any foreign currency is not a real one, right? You may claim, of course, that at least one country should accept a currency to be considered as "real" but if some tiny and utterly inconsequential government accepts Bitcoin as legal payment for taxes, what would it essentially change? Would it make Bitcoin into a "real" currency?

[sikke]

Another thing to discuss is its also good if the government or whoever starts accepting BTC as a currency. It would mean we could also pay our taxes with it. One of fiat's important function is to pay what we owe the government with it. Its one property that makes fiat valuable.

Paying the taxes in bitcoin would be something really great for all bitcoin users, there would be just no struggle with doing that totally online, when in some countries you cannot even pay the taxes through the internet-which is a very huge disadvantage.

Also, adoption od BTC by governments would give the countries even more and more taxes, so why cannot we see something like this?

Obviously i would prefer for bitcoin to be tax free but i doubt that we can really hope for that.

[avikz]

Even though the bitcoin was sold for wrong reason like selling drugs, I am happy that the judge did not recognize it as a money and more like a commodity. Because bitcoin is indeed a commodity, an online commodity to be precise. Bitcoin is holding its value in USD and people across the world are involved in trading of the same.

It may bring some good news to all the bitcoin users across the states of US because I heard they are pretty stringent about bitcoin and planning to tax it heavily. This judgement can bring some other thoughts about bitcoin which may open up some opportunities to debate.

[deisik]

Another thing to discuss is its also good if the government or whoever starts accepting BTC as a currency. It would mean we could also pay our taxes with it. One of fiat's important function is to pay what we owe the government with it. Its one property that makes fiat valuable.

Paying the taxes in bitcoin would be something really great for all bitcoin users, there would be just no struggle with doing that totally online, when in some countries you cannot even pay the taxes through the internet-which is a very huge disadvantage.

Also, adoption od BTC by governments would give the countries even more and more taxes, so why cannot we see something like this?

That's highly unlikely

As to me, the adoption of Bitcoin by governments would actually cause the tax revenues to dry up. How come? Simply because it is easier not to pay taxes with Bitcoin than with fiat money. Obviously, when a government starts accepting Bitcoin as legal tender ("a payment for all public debts and duties"), that will give Bitcoin a strong boost among general public as well as turn it into a vehicle for massive tax evasion. As the proverb goes, to think bad of people is a sin but rarely a mistake

[pixie85]

New York politics are corrupt. Maybe one of the most corrupt states in america.

It took forever for them to legalize mixed martial arts.

They like to stall on new legislature and sabotage the legal process to milk issues for everything they're worth.

I see no problem with them not recognizing Bitcoin as money. We don't really need regulated Bitcoin for anything.
Regulation equals taxes and special units in every government agency dedicated to Bitcoin tracking. I'd prefer if they left it alone and kept thinking it's a harmless movement managed and supported by a group of nerds.

[ap3311]

You will not legally accept BitCoin. But you will also be punished if there is an unlawful event in the proceedings related to it.If you make decisions based on bitcoin , you need to know bitcoin first.The judge made the right decision.The government accepts the bitcoin first.   Maybe then the judge can make decisions


 

[deisik]

New York politics are corrupt. Maybe one of the most corrupt states in america.

It took forever for them to legalize mixed martial arts.

They like to stall on new legislature and sabotage the legal process to milk issues for everything they're worth.

I see no problem with them not recognizing Bitcoin as money. We don't really need regulated Bitcoin for anything.
Regulation equals taxes and special units in every government agency dedicated to Bitcoin tracking. I'd prefer if they left it alone and kept thinking it's a harmless movement managed and supported by a group of nerds.

I strongly second this view

While some form of government regulation may somewhat help Bitcoin adoption, there is no reason to think that this regulation will be very Bitcoin-friendly overall. Basically, Bitcoin (just like any other foreign currency, for the record) is a competitor to a local currency, so you shouldn't harbor much hope in respect to such regulation. It will most likely be aimed at making the lives of generic Bitcoin users harder, certainly not easier. Existing foreign currency regulations are like that. They essentially limit the free circulation of these currencies, if not outright ban them. So beware of false prophets preaching for Bitcoin regulation

[BitcoinPanther]

There is not country in the world where btc is recognised like a money,but psst if bankers will read that thay will start launder money with btc,btc will jump to 100k $.Like a side effect we wil have crash on dollar

Is not Japan stated that Bitcoin is money and even Philippines declared the same? 

but psst if bankers will read that thay will start launder money with btc,btc will jump to 100k $

are not they already laundering their clients money, spending them to anywhere they wanted and making it hard for the owner to even move a cent from his money.  It does not seem like it because they are the authority.  No one will question it because in their system, their actions are legit and we clients agree with it.

[pinkflower]

Another thing to discuss is its also good if the government or whoever starts accepting BTC as a currency. It would mean we could also pay our taxes with it. One of fiat's important function is to pay what we owe the government with it. Its one property that makes fiat valuable

It is highly unlikely that any major government will ever go that route

Since that would effectively mean creating competition for the local currency which these governments print. Why would they want that? By going that way, they will be shooting themselves in the foot. Though some minor governments (and especially those which are already using some foreign currency as a legal tender) may in fact accept Bitcoin as a legitimate payment for taxes provided its price stabilizes over long enough term (but no sooner than that)

Yeah that was the point. I was trying to show where fiat gets its value from, and thats because governments accept them as payment for your dues. To be defined as real currency, BTC has to be accepted by the government for tax payments

In fact, this is a shaky argument

If not to say that it is a completely false one. There are over 100 fiat currencies in the world, and only a few are accepted as legal tender in more than one country. In general, one specific currency is accepted in only one country, namely, where this currency happens to be printed. So, according to your reasoning, any foreign currency is not a real one, right? You may claim, of course, that at least one country should accept a currency to be considered as "real" but if some tiny and utterly inconsequential government accepts Bitcoin as legal payment for taxes, what would it essentially change? Would it make Bitcoin into a "real" currency?

That is why merchants dont accept the foreign currencies. Because its not worth anything to them. They cant pay their expenses with it nor their taxes. The need to convert it which is very tedious because some currencies need to go through the US dollar first. From the point of view of a merchant from Kenya, the Japanese Yen is something he can wipe his ass with.

[deisik]

Another thing to discuss is its also good if the government or whoever starts accepting BTC as a currency. It would mean we could also pay our taxes with it. One of fiat's important function is to pay what we owe the government with it. Its one property that makes fiat valuable

It is highly unlikely that any major government will ever go that route

Since that would effectively mean creating competition for the local currency which these governments print. Why would they want that? By going that way, they will be shooting themselves in the foot. Though some minor governments (and especially those which are already using some foreign currency as a legal tender) may in fact accept Bitcoin as a legitimate payment for taxes provided its price stabilizes over long enough term (but no sooner than that)

Yeah that was the point. I was trying to show where fiat gets its value from, and thats because governments accept them as payment for your dues. To be defined as real currency, BTC has to be accepted by the government for tax payments

In fact, this is a shaky argument

If not to say that it is a completely false one. There are over 100 fiat currencies in the world, and only a few are accepted as legal tender in more than one country. In general, one specific currency is accepted in only one country, namely, where this currency happens to be printed. So, according to your reasoning, any foreign currency is not a real one, right? You may claim, of course, that at least one country should accept a currency to be considered as "real" but if some tiny and utterly inconsequential government accepts Bitcoin as legal payment for taxes, what would it essentially change? Would it make Bitcoin into a "real" currency?

That is why merchants dont accept the foreign currencies. Because its not worth anything to them. They cant pay their expenses with it nor their taxes. The need to convert it which is very tedious because some currncies need to go through the US dollar first. From the point of view of a merchant from Kenya, the Japanese Yen is something he can wipe his ass with

So you basically confirm that any fiat currency, maybe, only apart from the major ones that are universally accepted (like the US dollar) are not real ones from a view-point of someone to whom they are of no use. In this way, they are not real currencies, and the whole issue can be happily reduced to what someone thinks about a specific currency (more specifically, whether he can pay taxes with it or not, as per your reasoning). If so, how Bitcoin is different from all these other "unreal" currencies then?

Note that for a Kenyan merchant it is of no importance if someone can pay taxes somewhere with the Japanese Yen