Is bitcoin transaction fees fair?

[xIIImaL]

Not only fair but harmful extremely for the bitcoin image, one of the promises of bitcoin was low fees,but now we just have to or rather forced to pay high fees and fee per byte is not even adjusted with the market price, what we need to do is to set and agree on the dollar value of fees instead of satoshi/ bitcoin value.
If you don't pay the higher than usual fee then you'd to wait hours and those unlimited guys are spamming the network to justify the need for an unlimited fork so when people complained about high fees they come and say hey we have a solution it's called BU.

It is unfair and a big disadvantage especially for small time bitcoin users since we can hardly use bitcoin for small transactions since the fees are very high. But it is the price of being a decentralized currency wherein nobody is in control or somebody to regulate the fees that are being placed on the shoulders of the consumers. This is the disadvantage brought by decentralization but we must accept the fact since we dont want bitcoin to be placed under regulations and centrality.

Nowadays in the Blockchain.info fees has been increased and some point amount is still sitting in the wallet and transaction time also has bee increased for every transaction. Please who use the coinbase would be more benefiter according to me because its faster than the blockchain and normal fees for the transaction all the wallet providers 0.0003 to 0.0005 btc.

[gribble]

Well I think bitcoin transaction fees because of the block size of bitcoin and it is problem of bitcoin
 i don't think it is about fair or not of bitcoin transaction fees,
it is fact of bitcoin transaction fees must be paid by users of bitcoin, as comunity of bitcoin we must find
 the solution for this problem the expensive of fees transaction.

[the rise]

Well I think bitcoin transaction fees because of the block size of bitcoin and it is problem of bitcoin
 i don't think it is about fair or not of bitcoin transaction fees,
it is fact of bitcoin transaction fees must be paid by users of bitcoin, as comunity of bitcoin we must find
 the solution for this problem the expensive of fees transaction.

On the other hand, transaction fee is the most important reward if bitcoin mining period is up, so I think there is no harm if we pay them whatever we want, I also have examined that no matter how bitcoin transaction fees, everything will be processed to avoid flooding that will cause the pending transaction. So this is not a matter of fair or not, but there is no definite rule about how ideally the actual nominal fee.

[Raja_MBZ]

Bitcoin transaction fee is still pretty affordable. But we need to figure out a solution so that it doesn't increase more.

As of now, if you want to send bitcoin to multiple people, it makes the process more affordable.

[gentlemand]

Life isn't fair. And with Bitcoin, if you're not willing to pay the fees then someone else will be right along who will. It does suck for many but that's just how it is. I do wonder where the upper limit of willingness is though. I think it can only stretch so far.

What seems to have been often forgotten is that a large part of the reason for the high fees is, well, the high price.

[staff_1307]

Completely agree with you, because the fee should grow proportionally in the other direction with the price of Bitcoin.

[bitbunnny]

Not all fees are the same and depends on few factors but generaly speaking the Bitcoin fee is still on a decent level. There's been a lot of fee talk recently and in what direction will that go but i don't think think that fees can "kill" Bitcoins like some say or change that much because there will be always people wiling to pay.

[The One]

Is this fair?

It's not fair, but it's necessary.
In the beginning, when Bitcoin price was low, people transferred bigger amounts of Bitcoin and (since the network was also not busy) the fees were low / kb and very small compared to the money transferred.
Now Bitcoin is big, making many people transfer really small amounts of Bitcoin. Even if the fee would be the same per kb, now we have more (smaller) inputs and we send out smaller amount of Bitcoin for the same number of USD. This means indeed the fees rising "too much" for our liking.
But as I stated, this is necessary. The miners have to be fed. If that will not happen the network will suffer, we will suffer, the price will suffer. Not good.

One of the bigger problems is that people transfer a lot of unnecessary small amounts. Of course, they have their reasons - want to earn here and there a few extra $, want to buy something "small" things, don't trust some services or just don't realize that small amounts will fight against them in some not too far future.

My laptop was 0.6-0.7BTC when I bought it, would you have believed this when BTC was dropping around 200-250$? or when BTC was 2$?. But the fees were 3$ (ouch).


Bottom line: If you want to dream of $2k, $10k or (!) $500k Bitcoin, you have to admit that this comes with fees that may become almost unbearable. But without that you may be left off without miners and with 100$ or 10$ Bitcoin. You don't want that.

Wrong. Learn economics.

[stompix]

Everyone wanted higher bitcoin price and we achieved this but another problem become transaction fees. When bitcoin's price was low, we had to pay also low fee and now when it rised, we have to pay high fee in bitcoins and plus that high fee is more higher with current price. Is this fair? The higher the price, the more money miners have with bitcoin exchange.
To my mind when price becomes high, we have to pay low fee and when it becomes low, than fee has to be high. To my mind it had to be done like this from the begining.

It is not the fault of the bitcoin or it's network , it is because the miners , nodes gives the priority to the transaction and confirmation for the transaction with high fees .
In the past not much high profile millionaire and billionaire were engaged in the bitcoin , but now millionaire and billionaire are increasing more in the bitcoin field and they are paying high fees for the confirmation , this high fee payment making the competition in the bitcoin network to confirm the transaction with higher fee then the lower one .
So just think about this logically that , here nothing is wrong , everything is fine and we should also pay high to support the miners in the bitcoin network , so that they can make profit more and make the network​ of the bitcoin more stable .

You're wrong.
It's totally the fault of the network.

There is only 1M of space for your transaction every 10 minutes.
And whoever pays the most will get the spot, simply.

Billionaires and millionaires and reptilians have nothing to do with it.

Is this fair?

It's not fair, but it's necessary.
In the beginning, when Bitcoin price was low, people transferred bigger amounts of Bitcoin and (since the network was also not busy) the fees were low / kb and very small compared to the money transferred.
Now Bitcoin is big, making many people transfer really small amounts of Bitcoin. Even if the fee would be the same per kb, now we have more (smaller) inputs and we send out smaller amount of Bitcoin for the same number of USD. This means indeed the fees rising "too much" for our liking.
But as I stated, this is necessary. The miners have to be fed. If that will not happen the network will suffer, we will suffer, the price will suffer. Not good.

One of the bigger problems is that people transfer a lot of unnecessary small amounts. Of course, they have their reasons - want to earn here and there a few extra $, want to buy something "small" things, don't trust some services or just don't realize that small amounts will fight against them in some not too far future.

My laptop was 0.6-0.7BTC when I bought it, would you have believed this when BTC was dropping around 200-250$? or when BTC was 2$?. But the fees were 3$ (ouch).


Bottom line: If you want to dream of $2k, $10k or (!) $500k Bitcoin, you have to admit that this comes with fees that may become almost unbearable. But without that you may be left off without miners and with 100$ or 10$ Bitcoin. You don't want that.

Really painful to see how a legendary member has no clue how bitcoin works

[NeuroticFish]

Wrong. Learn economics.

The economics are (imho) useless here, since Bitcoin is designed to be deflationary, while the economics are helpful (and teach you to do) inflationary systems.
But you're right, I don't know economics so I may be wrong.

Really painful to see how a legendary member has no clue how bitcoin works

This is not about how Bitcoin works. It's about the economics around Bitcoin.
Of course I may be wrong (and I hope so), but for now you didn't prove anything. You didn't actually try to give a decent answer.

For example there are plenty of days when the 1MB block is big enough for most transactions and in those days even 11k satoshi (5 sat/byte) is a good enough fee, and maybe even that fee can be considered big if you transfer small amounts.

You are older than me on this forum, so I am shocked that you are "impressed" by the rank instead of the "age". And I still find out "new" things every now and then, so maybe you care to point out what parts I can improve.

[stompix]

This is not about how Bitcoin works. It's about the economics around Bitcoin.
Of course I may be wrong (and I hope so), but for now you didn't prove anything. You didn't actually try to give a decent answer.

For example there are plenty of days when the 1MB block is big enough for most transactions and in those days even 11k satoshi (5 sat/byte) is a good enough fee, and maybe even that fee can be considered big if you transfer small amounts.

You are older than me on this forum, so I am shocked that you are "impressed" by the rank instead of the "age". And I still find out "new" things every now and then, so maybe you care to point out what parts I can improve.

Plenty of days?
In the last month we had around 20 blocks after which the mempool dropped below 1M.
And you know that those happen just because of a few blocks are mined under 50% of the required time in succesion.

Let's see what will happen if the number of users will increase only by 10%.

[jorneyflair]

Not only fair but harmful extremely for the bitcoin image, one of the promises of bitcoin was low fees,but now we just have to or rather forced to pay high fees and fee per byte is not even adjusted with the market price, what we need to do is to set and agree on the dollar value of fees instead of satoshi/ bitcoin value.
If you don't pay the higher than usual fee then you'd to wait hours and those unlimited guys are spamming the network to justify the need for an unlimited fork so when people complained about high fees they come and say hey we have a solution it's called BU.

It is unfair and a big disadvantage especially for small time bitcoin users since we can hardly use bitcoin for small transactions since the fees are very high. But it is the price of being a decentralized currency wherein nobody is in control or somebody to regulate the fees that are being placed on the shoulders of the consumers. This is the disadvantage brought by decentralization but we must accept the fact since we dont want bitcoin to be placed under regulations and centrality.

Nowadays in the Blockchain.info fees has been increased and some point amount is still sitting in the wallet and transaction time also has bee increased for every transaction. Please who use the coinbase would be more benefiter according to me because its faster than the blockchain and normal fees for the transaction all the wallet providers 0.0003 to 0.0005 btc.

In my opinion, current fees are not so great because we actually have to pay a lot, from  0.00035 up to even 0.0006 satoshi sometimes!
With small bitcoin price, that would not be so annoying because paying only small part of the whole transaction is totally fair. After all, miners needs to get their money too because the transactions won't get confirmed by themselves. But paying 30k satoshi fee is still alright, when BTC costs not so much. And currently, we have totally different thing, the bitcoin is really expensive if we compare it to the history of the first cryptocurrency.

For now, I dont think that fee is a very big problem for our community, it is indeed annyoing when the someone is making many transactions a day, but for a regular user, this is not a big issue.
The thing is, we are facing even bigger increase of the miners commision, if still more people will be attracted to cryptocurrencies world. The trafic will be bigger and bigger, which will result that we need higher fees to see our transaction going through the network at least at the decent amount of time.

We need some kind of solution, I would have chosen SegWit but as we can see, miners have their own insights about this.

[Wowcoin]

Its not fair for users because they add fee even a small transaction they want a small fee.  So very unfair because i have earned bitcoin but not so big if i send it to my local wallet i need to add fee for my transaction.

[Kizaki]

Before i can say yes it is fair enough but in this days i think its a no now.Im experiencing fees higher than the amount i sent off and it makes me mad all the time

[stompix]

Its not fair for users because they add fee even a small transaction they want a small fee.  So very unfair because i have earned bitcoin but not so big if i send it to my local wallet i need to add fee for my transaction.

It's pretty fair.
Does you seat at the cinema cost the same as the guy who makes 10 times more?
You're in both situation occupying a limited amount of "space".

Are we going to go socialism nuts and have the fees based on the amounts?
God forbid.

Before i can say yes it is fair enough but in this days i think its a no now.Im experiencing fees higher than the amount i sent off and it makes me mad all the time

Combine your payments;).
Or stop transferring 1$.

[1Referee]

I do wonder where the upper limit of willingness is though. I think it can only stretch so far.

It depends on how each person makes use of Bitcoin. If I purely look at myself, then Bitcoin for me is like Gold 2.0. I don't often send and receive transactions as I am more concentrated at trading, and using Bitcoin as store of value. If needed, I'll stretch it to a few bucks as fee per transaction. I don't care - I want confirmations to come through ASAP, at any cost.

What seems to have been often forgotten is that a large part of the reason for the high fees is, well, the high price.

If pools were caring about the community and Bitcoin itself, then they would be happy to somewhat tie the fees to the value in USD (e.g. high price, lower fee in BTC, lower price, higher fee in BTC. But obviously, they won't do so as they are generating more fee income than ever before. Financial gains have more priority than everything else.

[iram3130]

Before i can say yes it is fair enough but in this days i think its a no now.Im experiencing fees higher than the amount i sent off and it makes me mad all the time

Not just you, it became a headache for allot of people. People think Bitcoin will solve all their financial problems but recently the delay in transactions and the raise in fees is a problem we have to solve. It is not fair but it became a necessity.

[NeuroticFish]

For example there are plenty of days when the 1MB block is big enough for most transactions and in those days even 11k satoshi (5 sat/byte) is a good enough fee, and maybe even that fee can be considered big if you transfer small amounts.

Plenty of days?
In the last month we had around 20 blocks after which the mempool dropped below 1M.
And you know that those happen just because of a few blocks are mined under 50% of the required time in succesion.

I looked for the common sense mempool < 5MB, since I don't expect the old 0-fee transactions work anymore and I hope that nobody does. (Yes, I am too lazy to check if they are still allowed by Bitcoin core).
And then the time frame increases quite a lot.

Let's see what will happen if the number of users will increase only by 10%.

I strongly believe that this issue is not caused by "the number of users". However I have faith in the devs will find a good solution.

One of the bigger problems is that people transfer a lot of unnecessary small amounts.

Or stop transferring 1$.

I am happy that we agree on something after all.

[youdamushi]

Its not fair for users because they add fee even a small transaction they want a small fee.  So very unfair because i have earned bitcoin but not so big if i send it to my local wallet i need to add fee for my transaction.

It's pretty fair.
Does you seat at the cinema cost the same as the guy who makes 10 times more?
You're in both situation occupying a limited amount of "space".

Are we going to go socialism nuts and have the fees based on the amounts?
God forbid.

It could be interesting you know.
It's just a question of what do we want to do.

What would happen if "we went socialism nuts" as you say (which just means in fact trying to mutualize the costs).
Well the fee would be depending of the amount you send: the higher the amount the higher the fee.

But it has no link whatsoever to the actual use you make of the network as the amount isn't relevant...
So it would make no sense and would just make people make a lot of small transactions.

In the end you would have much more transactions and a much more flooded network with a higher average cost...
Not exactly a good idea in my opinion, socialism doesn't work well on btc ^^

[2double0]

If compared to Bank Wire transactions, it is still very low if compared to it. But for small gamblers and the ones who are playing on-chain games with lower bets could not even think of doing it now as the fee seems really big for each transaction and nobody would go for such smaller bets if they would not win even 0.2x extra profits over their bets and gambling is one of the major features which got strike hard after fee hike. The biggest problem I see to this even after fee hike is, the confirmation times.